Someone help me-- what is the big problem with Keyword Spamming on Ebay?

Longacre · December 20, 2006 4:54AM

I have to confess that I never understood what the big deal is with Keyword Spamming on Ebay. I am trying to be open minded about the issue, so I am asking for someone to explain why this is such as heinous crime. I understand that some people do auto searches for particular key words, and maybe they get more bum results than they normally would have as a result of the keyword spamming. If the actual listing makes it clear that the coin is not certified, other than being a nuisance, what other harms does it cause?

Again, I am open minded about this, so please let's have an educational discussion about it. I think that there are other larger issues that people should get upset about, though. For example, in our midst we have admitted coin doctors, who are the equivalent of numismatic terrorists, in my opinion. However, they post freely here, and everyone looks the other way, while keyword spammers are run out of town on a rail. Can someone explain?

ziggy29 · December 20, 2006 4:56AM

Because if I want to look for PCGS-grade MS-63 coins, for example, I don't want to have to wade through a bunch of crap like "NTC MS-63 WORTH $5000 AT PCGS" or "PCGS MS-61 LOOKS MS-63!" in order to find the few actual hits.

Yes, in terms of "egregiousness" on the pecking order it's lower than the coin doctors and the scammers, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore it until more serious problems are completely wiped out.

Cladiator · December 20, 2006 4:56AM

<< other than being a nuisance, what other harms does it cause? >>

None I think.

<< Again, I am open minded about this, so please let's have an educational discussion about it. I think that there are other larger issues that people should get upset about, though. For example, in our midst we have admitted coin doctors, who are the equivalent of numismatic terrorists, in my opinion. However, they post freely here, and everyone looks the other way, while keyword spammers are run out of town on a rail. Can someone explain? >>

VERY WELL SAID AND I AGREE WITH YOU!

poorguy · December 20, 2006 4:59AM

It is used to capitalize on the exposure that PCGS and NGC coins get and thus "steals" exposure away from a legitimate PCGS and NGC coin. Also, if a bunch of people do it all at once, it'll completely swamp the listings with junk and the user will in essence give up searching through that category and you'll lose a potential buyer because of it.

robertpr · December 20, 2006 5:01AM

It's a nuisance, and that's the key thing, but other than that preventing keyword spamming is one small step toward thwarting misleading auctions as well. IMHO it's the ONE area in which eBay is actually trying to prevent misleading/fraudulant activity.

Connecticoin · December 20, 2006 5:04AM

<< For example, in our midst we have admitted coin doctors, who are the equivalent of numismatic terrorists, in my opinion. However, they post freely here, and everyone looks the other way, while keyword spammers are run out of town on a rail. >>

Other than MOC, who are these admitted coin doctors? And in MOC's case, most on this board certainly did not look the other way --- quite the contrary, he got roasted pretty good (and deservedly so)!

Russ · December 20, 2006 5:06AM

<< IMHO it's the ONE area in which eBay is actually trying to prevent misleading/fraudulant activity. >>

That's strange because, after numerous reports, they've never done a thing about one of the worst keyword spammers on eBay - rareland.

Russ, NCNE

pf70collector · December 20, 2006 5:14AM

Is this against ebay policy? I don't really pay attention to it much. I am not a seller yet so don't flame me please.

DennisH · December 20, 2006 5:18AM

Because it's junk mail. It's flyers on the windshield in the parking lot. It's petition-gatherers outside the market. It's door-to-door proselytizers. It's telemarketers. It's all the commercials at the end of the TV movie instead of spread out evenly from the beginning.

It's a deceptive circumvention of the system whose sole intent is to put a message in front of people who don't freely choose to receive it. In that regard it is selfish. It is rude. It is an invasion of privacy. It is "so what if you don't like it, this is only about what I want."

If I want to see NTC-graded 1893-S Morgans, I darn sure don't want some inconsiderate lout adding "better than NTC" to their headline just so I'll see his PCGS coin. If I want to see PCGS coins then that's the keyword I'll put in my search command.

And yes, keyword spamming is a violation of eBay selling rules.

Russ · December 20, 2006 5:21AM

<< Is this against ebay policy? >>

Yes.

Russ, NCNE

granpagraf · December 20, 2006 5:49AM

<< I have to confess that I never understood what the big deal is with Keyword Spamming on Ebay. I am trying to be open minded about the issue, so I am asking for someone to explain why this is such as heinous crime. I understand that some people do auto searches for particular key words, and maybe they get more bum results than they normally would have as a result of the keyword spamming. If the actual listing makes it clear that the coin is not certified, other than being a nuisance, what other harms does it cause?

Again, I am open minded about this, so please let's have an educational discussion about it. I think that there are other larger issues that people should get upset about, though. For example, in our midst we have admitted coin doctors, who are the equivalent of numismatic terrorists, in my opinion. However, they post freely here, and everyone looks the other way, while keyword spammers are run out of town on a rail. Can someone explain? >>

I don't get it either!! What is this all about?

ziggy29 · December 20, 2006 5:55AM

When only a small number of people do it, it isn't a big deal. It doesn't take too long to separate the wheat from the chaff, since it's mostly wheat and very little chaff.

But when it's allowed to occur, it just encourages more people to do it, forces more people to see items that almost certainly don't match the search criteria, and probably fewer eyes on the actual correctly listed things, thus possibly adversely affecting the bids they receive. Once there's mostly chaff and very little wheat, people may give up their searches and not find what they want.

The same is true of searching for problem-free coins in ANACS holders. There are some nice ones, but so many ANACS coins are problem coins with "details" grades that it's almost not worth including "ANACS" in a search. And that hurts people who own very nice problem-free coins in ANACS holders. That's not the same thing as keyword spamming, but it does show that when you're finding a lot more than you want to see in a search, the stuff you are searching for gets drowned out.

fanofcoins · December 20, 2006 2:41PM

also annoying is category spamming. for example, you search 'gibson' in the leaf category of Musical Instruments->Guitar->Electric, and you have t-shirts and keychains in your results!

clw54 · December 20, 2006 2:56PM

After a while one tends to get disgusted with BS. Like those door-to-door people who say they need 20000 points to win a trip to Europe and they have 19995 and after a while they say they're selling magazines. After having BS coming at you over and over in so many forms, you just don't want any more of it. The argument can be made that it's all harmless, and in the overall scheme of things it is, but you just grow weary of it after a while. It's about the BS, that's all.

ms70 · December 20, 2006 3:12PM

<< Because it's junk mail. It's flyers on the windshield in the parking lot. It's petition-gatherers outside the market. It's door-to-door proselytizers. It's telemarketers. It's all the commercials at the end of the TV movie instead of spread out evenly from the beginning.

It's a deceptive circumvention of the system whose sole intent is to put a message in front of people who don't freely choose to receive it. In that regard it is selfish. It is rude. It is an invasion of privacy. It is "so what if you don't like it, this is only about what I want."

If I want to see NTC-graded 1893-S Morgans, I darn sure don't want some inconsiderate lout adding "better than NTC" to their headline just so I'll see his PCGS coin. If I want to see PCGS coins then that's the keyword I'll put in my search command.

And yes, keyword spamming is a violation of eBay selling rules. >>

That just about says it all. I like to expose them even though it's lower on the ladder of violations because it seems like the introductory eBay crime to bigger scams. It's also one of the easiest to report and easiest for eBay to figure out without a lot of investigation. Some of us are good at exposing bigger shams, some of us take the time to expose the smaller ones, but we should all do something to protect our hobby and making our "hunt" more enjoyable.

Bochiman · December 20, 2006 3:21PM

Longacre,

You are right. Everyone should be able to just do what they want, regardless of impact to others, because there are always worse offenders out there.

Police shouldn't pull over speeders because there are people breaking and entering and stealing.
Police shouldn't go after/arrest the people who steal as there are people murdering others.
They shouldn't go after the murderers because I am sure there are worse out there still.

So, why go after anyone?

notwilight · December 20, 2006 3:31PM

In simple terms, if allowed it would make the search function useless. --Jerry

BlindedByEgo · December 20, 2006 3:37PM

<< Because it's junk mail. It's flyers on the windshield in the parking lot. It's petition-gatherers outside the market. It's door-to-door proselytizers. It's telemarketers. It's all the commercials at the end of the TV movie instead of spread out evenly from the beginning.

It's a deceptive circumvention of the system whose sole intent is to put a message in front of people who don't freely choose to receive it. In that regard it is selfish. It is rude. It is an invasion of privacy. It is "so what if you don't like it, this is only about what I want."

If I want to see NTC-graded 1893-S Morgans, I darn sure don't want some inconsiderate lout adding "better than NTC" to their headline just so I'll see his PCGS coin. If I want to see PCGS coins then that's the keyword I'll put in my search command.

And yes, keyword spamming is a violation of eBay selling rules. >>

You said it better than I could. It's also like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you're already late.

Bochiman · December 20, 2006 3:44PM

Longacre......do you use ebay and, if so, how much?

Pentimento · December 20, 2006 3:45PM

Its a bigger problem than just keyword spamming, and it is addressed by--

****
ANSI/NISO Z39.19-2005

Introduction -- Vocabulary control is used to improve the effectiveness of information storage and retrieval systems,
Web navigation systems, and other environments that seek to both identify and locate desired
content via some sort of description using language.

Vocabulary control is achieved by three principal methods:
• Defining the scope, or meaning, of terms;
• Using the equivalence relationship to link synonymous and nearly synonymous terms; and
• Distinguishing among homographs.
****

This standard defines the concept of 'precision' as it relates to a search for an object. It then lays out ways in which one might define the scope, or meaning, of a term as a method of increasing precision.

So here is my answer; Ebay provides a search product, and follows standard practices as a way to provide users with a positive experience. People complain about keyword spamming because it bothers them.

PerryHall · December 20, 2006 4:50PM

<< In simple terms, if allowed it would make the search function useless. --Jerry >>

Bingo!!! I'm surprised a smart guy like Longacre couldn't figure this out on his own. Oh, well.

ms70 · December 20, 2006 5:50PM

<< It's also like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you're already late.

>>

It's a free ride when you've already paid.

Longacre · December 20, 2006 10:54PM

<< Longacre......do you use ebay and, if so, how much? >>

Since you asked a direct question.... I don't use Ebay that much. I have probably bought a total of 20 items on Ebay, and sold approximately 2-3.

I hear the points about keyword spamming affecting search results (although I do not think it makes the search results useless), which I refered to in my opening post. Again, other than the bother factor, I think that Ebay has bigger issues to contend with. Although I am all for Ebay prosecuting all Ebay crimes, the way people get up in arms about keyword spamming seems excessive when compared to the impact on the system in total.

Someone help me-- what is the big problem with Keyword Spamming on Ebay?

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