What If....the US Stoppd Printing $1 Bills

Coxe · December 13, 2006 1:15AM

I know we have discussed this and the merits of transitioning to the $1 forceably this way. How about proposing the details on how such a hypothetical situation would play out? The Treasury decided on a particular date, with very little advance notice, to completely discontinue printing of $1 notes and issues $1 coins for all future replacements.

I'll start. We know there is a mean time for a $1 bill to remain in circulation, a key reason for getting rid of it and replacng it with a coin that is more market durable. However, people have a perverse attachment to the one dollar greenback and would likely hoard the crisp ones (particularly because dollars are cheap to keep anyway) meaning the attenuation of the available supply for commerce would be amplified. SO, even with replacement dollar coins, we would be in for a $1 unit shortage. That is something that should be anticipated if they ever do go that way.

ziggy29 · December 13, 2006 1:16AM

Actually, the recent court decision requiring that "blind-friendly" accommodations be built into currency has made the retirement of the $1 FRN at least an outside chance now, rather than the "when hell freezes over" that it used to be.

dbldie55 · December 13, 2006 1:22AM

<< Actually, the recent court decision requiring that "blind-friendly" accommodations be built into currency has made the retirement of the $1 FRN at least an outside chance now, rather than the "when hell freezes over" that it used to be. >>

The $1 note would be the only one that would not need anything done to satisfy the courts. It is the smallest note, so no matter what you had, you would know it was at least a dollar.

jbsteven · December 13, 2006 1:30AM

<< 

<< Actually, the recent court decision requiring that "blind-friendly" accommodations be built into currency has made the retirement of the $1 FRN at least an outside chance now, rather than the "when hell freezes over" that it used to be. >>

The $1 note would be the only one that would not need anything done to satisfy the courts. It is the smallest note, so no matter what you had, you would know it was at least a dollar. >>

all notes are the same size right now. take out a $1 and compare to other notes.

MoneyCollector · December 13, 2006 1:32AM

Smallest with respect to denomination. Make all the others blind-friendly and if not one of those, then the default is the $1.

Zoins · December 13, 2006 1:37AM

<< Actually, the recent court decision requiring that "blind-friendly" accommodations be built into currency has made the retirement of the $1 FRN at least an outside chance now, rather than the "when hell freezes over" that it used to be. >>

I think they are two different issues. They might be connected in some Congressional bill but until then, I don't see any reason to think why one will have an effect on the other. It's not like there are only 2 different bill denominations now and getting rid of the $1 FRN will solve the problem.

Outhaul · December 13, 2006 1:47AM

Actually, that's exactly what the BEP SHOULD do. No discussions, no arguing, no backing down to public outcry. Just stop printing them and continue issuing $1 coins. People will just have to deal with it. With all the unpopular legislation people in this country roll over for, the dollar coin issue is just a peehole in the snow. Get over it.

Cheers,

Bob

jbsteven · December 13, 2006 2:00AM

<< Actually, that's exactly what the BEP SHOULD do. No discussions, no arguing, no backing down to public outcry. Just stop printing them and continue issuing $1 coins. People will just have to deal with it. With all the unpopular legislation people in this country roll over for, the dollar coin issue is just a peehole in the snow. Get over it.

Cheers,

Bob >>

I somewhat agree but we are a democracy and people can voice their oppostion which could keep it from happening.

Coxe · December 13, 2006 2:03AM

I find it hard to believe that a Senator would be removed from office in the next election because he/she backed a bill to eliminate the $1 note. On the contrary, they could praise themselves in the next campaign for the attendant savings to the taxpayers as a result.

fishcooker · December 13, 2006 2:03AM

Just use credit cards and be done with it.

flaminio · December 13, 2006 2:24AM

Keep in mind that the US is not a pioneer in this regard. Many other countries have already replaced bills with coins -- Canada, the UK, etc. People are also forgetting the legendary short attention span of Americans.

If dollar bills were eliminated tomorrow, people would bitch about it for about a month, complain for a second month, grumble for a third, and then just get on with it. By June you'd never even know that the US ever had dollar bills, and cashiers would complain when you tried to spend them because they wouldn't have a slot in the till for it.

Cladiator · December 13, 2006 2:28AM

<< Just use credit cards and be done with it. >>

Bingo. Paper money and metal money is obsolete.

Heywood · December 13, 2006 2:36AM

They have recently printed more 2003 A series $2 than have been printed in a long time.

If they loose the one, will the 2 return or should/will it also be retired?

EricSan · December 13, 2006 5:45AM

I agree with Outhaul on this one. This is a behavioral issue. If you wish for someone not to engage in a certain type of behavior, simply don't make option available! Duh.... So what if people complain about not having $1 bills? Will they stop shopping? Will the economy suffer? Doubtful...

Stop printing singles, make the coins, and just continue removing singles from circulation as they wear out. What's the problem?

Eric

Bear · December 13, 2006 6:04AM

Hey, I am ready to remove any senator from office,

just for breathing.

dizzyfoxx · December 13, 2006 6:22AM

They would save a lot of trees.

cladking · December 13, 2006 6:25AM

If it were my decision I would phase the coin in gradually to allow grumps and malcontents a
breif time to get used to it. It would be done right after an election since people will forget they
didn't like the transition at first and just think how much more convenient currency is. Just ship
a portion of each banks $1 note order in the form of $1 coin and keep increasing this percentage.
This will force the banks to offer them.

At the very start it should be announced that the note is on the way out. Vending machine oper-
ators need to know this is happening and then it needs to happen. They win in a huge way but
have been fooled before so there will be some grumbling. Banks should stock up on $2 bills to ap-
pease the grumps at first. These probably won't catch on in a big way but if they do it will be be-
cause the banks are pushing them. It will just present an opportunity to introduce a $2 coin in a
few years.

Our currency system is an absolute mess. It's really in total chaos at this point because the govern-
ment doesn't want to admit that there has been any inflation over the last half century. It now costs
about a dime to make a nickel with 7c worth of metal in it. Every time they make a nickel we are all
a little poorer. Don't even get me started on cents.

We need an aluminum 5c coin on an emergency basis.

The only real alternative to this is to lop a "0" off the money; one old dollar becomes one new dime.

robertpr · December 13, 2006 6:29AM

<< 

<< Actually, that's exactly what the BEP SHOULD do. No discussions, no arguing, no backing down to public outcry. Just stop printing them and continue issuing $1 coins. People will just have to deal with it. With all the unpopular legislation people in this country roll over for, the dollar coin issue is just a peehole in the snow. Get over it.

Cheers,

Bob >>

I somewhat agree but we are a democracy and people can voice their oppostion which could keep it from happening. >>

No, we're a federal constitutional republic, not a democracy.

cincycoin · December 13, 2006 6:32AM

<< They would save a lot of trees. >>

sorry to disappoint you but they are not made of paper or trees for that matter. cotton mostly

JeffinMich · December 13, 2006 6:36AM

I agree with Outhaul.....just do it.

Next in line is the cent....it no longer has any buying power, so it's time to get rid of it. I wonder how many Zincolns get pitched every day? And how long before they completely disintegrate once they come in contact with the environment?

dizzyfoxx · December 13, 2006 6:37AM

<< 

<< They would save a lot of trees. >>

sorry to disappoint you but they are not made of paper or trees for that matter. cotton mostly >>

It doesn't make sense saying, "It will save a lot of cotton."

MadMarty · December 13, 2006 6:43AM

Sen. Kerry and Kennedy will never let that happen.

PhillyJoe · December 13, 2006 6:51AM

<< Sen. Kerry and Kennedy will never let that happen. >>

...since the only plant in the country that makes the currency "paper" stock is located in Taxachusetts. If it didn't happen when "they" were running Congress, it sure as heck won't happen now that the other "they" will be controlling the legislation.

Joe

Gemineye · December 13, 2006 7:05AM

<< Sen. Kerry and Kennedy will never let that happen. >>

.....

Zoins · December 13, 2006 8:18AM

Has there ever been a bill in either the House or Senate to discontinue the $1 bill? If so, is there a link to it and who were the sponsors?

Jdurg · December 13, 2006 8:24AM

If they discontinue the $1-bill and replace it with a $1-coin, they should take heed of what the UK did with the 1-pound coin. That coin is substantially thicker and heavier than any other coin in UK currency so there is no doubt whatsoever that you are holding a 1-pound coin.

ms70 · December 13, 2006 8:33AM

I clearly don't understand the "Get rid of the dollar bill" crowd. Let's look at the facts:

1) The dollar coin is not wanted by the majority of US citizens & is a flop every time they try to get it in circulation. This can't be argued no matter how much you yell, scream, stutter, or stammer about it.

2) The dollar bill is more expensive to make, etc, etc, BUT the majority of Americans want the bill and NOT the coin.

3) The US Government is supposed to listen to it's citizens. It's a government (supposedly) run by the people. What this means is that regardless if the dollar bill
is more expensive, the people want it, therefore they should continue to make it, and that's the end of the story.

4) In our system of government the MAJORITY RULES. However it is fashionable to think the minority makes the rules in this country.

Coxe · December 13, 2006 8:49AM

The 98% majority would prefer the 2% upper crust minority pay more taxes, but it doesn't work that way. This is a representative government and the politics of it is public relations tightrope walk to get votes needed from the majority (or approximately according to districting) on campaigns conducted to obscure or deemphasize the majority's values that are at odds with the candidate's sponsors' and to often misrepresent the bottom line of every position. It is all doubletalk from all but the far exceptional, and often politically marginalized, candidate. This is true of both major parties. In theory, our representatives are supposed to represent our best interests within the confines of constitutional law. Knowing that this majority doesn't understand math well enough to get past page one to see the cost benefits of coining the dollar is an example where a representative might depart from the majority's immediate wishes in their absolute best interest. In my opinion, issues like this are a real test of a politician's spine and true worth.

relicsncoins · December 13, 2006 8:56AM

<< If it were my decision I would phase the coin in gradually to allow grumps and malcontents a
breif time to get used to it. It would be done right after an election since people will forget they
didn't like the transition at first and just think how much more convenient currency is. Just ship
a portion of each banks $1 note order in the form of $1 coin and keep increasing this percentage.
This will force the banks to offer them.

At the very start it should be announced that the note is on the way out. Vending machine oper-
ators need to know this is happening and then it needs to happen. They win in a huge way but
have been fooled before so there will be some grumbling. Banks should stock up on $2 bills to ap-
pease the grumps at first. These probably won't catch on in a big way but if they do it will be be-
cause the banks are pushing them. It will just present an opportunity to introduce a $2 coin in a
few years.

Our currency system is an absolute mess. It's really in total chaos at this point because the govern-
ment doesn't want to admit that there has been any inflation over the last half century. It now costs
about a dime to make a nickel with 7c worth of metal in it. Every time they make a nickel we are all
a little poorer. Don't even get me started on cents.

We need an aluminum 5c coin on an emergency basis.

The only real alternative to this is to lop a "0" off the money; one old dollar becomes one new dime. >>

You can thank the removal of silver from our coins for a lot of this. Think about this; A quarter minted in 1964 is worth about 2 bucks, while a quarter minted in 1965 is still only worth a quarter. I'm guessing here, but in 1964 and 1965 a gallon of milk probably cost somewere around 50 cents, and now costs about 2 bucks. In 1964 and 1965 you needed two quarters to buy a gallon of milk, and now you need only one 1964 yet you need 8 1965 quarters to buy that gallon of milk. The coins with silver have kept of with inflation if not out performed it yet the clad have done nothing.

JJ

Zoins · December 13, 2006 8:56AM

<< In my opinion, issues like this are a real test of a politician's spine and true worth. >>

As I asked above, has this issue ever been introduced in a bill to either branch of Congress? If not, it's not even an issue in Congress. If you were a Congressman and you had to address how long our soldiers should stay in Iraq or whether the country should discontinue $1 bills, what would you think is more important?

Sure you can blame the politicians for not raising the issue but I wouldn't go that far. If the issue has been raised, then it becomes more interesting.

relicsncoins · December 13, 2006 9:04AM

<< They have recently printed more 2003 A series $2 than have been printed in a long time.

If they loose the one, will the 2 return or should/will it also be retired? >>

The reason for new two's is the many new strip clubs that have opened.

The reason for the Two.

flaminio · December 13, 2006 9:11AM

It's all about the money. The government has an obligation to deliver services to the people at the best possible cost. (I'll pause here to allow you to laugh a while.) ..... The bottom line is that switch to dollar coins saves half a billion dollars per year. The added efficiencies in commerce are merely a bonus to that.

Coxe · December 13, 2006 9:11AM

<< 

<< In my opinion, issues like this are a real test of a politician's spine and true worth. >>

As I asked above, has this issue ever been introduced in a bill to either branch of Congress? If not, it's not even an issue in Congress. If you were a Congressman and you had to address how long our soldiers should stay in Iraq or whether the country should discontinue $1 bills, what would you think is more important?

Sure you can blame the politicians for not raising the issue but I wouldn't go that far. If the issue has been raised, then it becomes more interesting. >>

It is an important question, the cent and the dollar bill. It does not kill troops but it does affect our economy. The government is not a one issue at a time government. At least it shouldn't be. The reason it hasn't been introduced (to my knowledge) is that there isn't a congressman who thinks there are enough peers in Congress with a spine to support it. The real bottom line though is that congressmen are not any better at math than their constituents and they don't do the math. Their lobbies do all of that for them and this issue is not one of their issues, plain and simple.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 13, 2006 9:18AM

<< 

<< 

<< They would save a lot of trees. >>

sorry to disappoint you but they are not made of paper or trees for that matter. cotton mostly >>

It doesn't make sense saying, "It will save a lot of cotton."

>>

Try wool underwear in case of a cotton shortage and bark instead of Charmin™

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:19AM

How many people here who want the rag buck discontinued have written to their Congressmen about this? Even better, how many have gotten a petition started and sent in? Congressmen are elected to represent their constituents. Many people have noted that the vast majority of Americans do NOT want the dollar bill removed so removing the dollar bill will be against the majority of their constituents' desires. If you want Congress to get rid of the rag buck but have not written to yours or organized petitions, from their point of view, their constituents do not want the dollar bill eliminated. Seems pretty simple to me.

nickel · December 13, 2006 9:19AM

Canada has done it with no fanfare,just here's
the coin ($1 and $2 ) Paper is good pretty much
until there's none left . What a country , that one
senator can keep all reps and senators hostage .
Once we get a $1 and $2 and $5 dollar coin , I want
to see and use a $500 bill . My car dealer charged
me $556.28 last week , and that was bunches of
Fifty and Twenty Dollar Bills . Yeah ,I know , but I'm
tired of having my life dictated by outsiders cause
they might fund their needs with a $500 dollar bill
instead of 5 $100's . Besides , most of their funds
are in different currencies and different banks
across this planet . They are not stupid , we are
just to dumb and paranoid!!

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:22AM

<< Canada has done it with no fanfare,just here's the coin ($1 and $2 ) >>

Canada also has socialized medicine and many Canadians come to the US for medical treatment

I think this issue needs to be worked from inside the US political process, not by comparing the US to other countries on forums in lieu of communicating with our elected officials. However, Canada's experience would be a great thing to highlight ... in a letter to your Congressmen.

For the people who say Congress should do this to save money, the money belongs to Americans who want, and can afford, the rag buck. If the Americans that want the rag buck discontinued do not contact their elected representatives, I see it as a failing of the anti-dollar bill movement, and not a failing of our Congressmen.

flaminio · December 13, 2006 9:29AM

<< How many people here who want the rag buck discontinued have written to their Congressmen about this? >>

I have. I wrote to my Congressman and both my Senators. I got nice form letters back.

Coxe · December 13, 2006 9:29AM

nickel -- I am with you on the $500 note and even a $1000 note. I know if I am on a buying day on a bourse, I'd rather not have a pile of $100 bills when I know I am buying coins starting in the hundreds of dollars. Buying a $1200 coin or paying for a $1200 transmission job should be a simple $1000 and two $100 bills, not counting out ten hundreds and ten twenties.

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:32AM

<< 

<< How many people here who want the rag buck discontinued have written to their Congressmen about this? >>

I have. I wrote to my Congressman and both my Senators. I got nice form letters back. >>

Excellent.

To take things one step further, has anyone set up an anti-ragbuck website to collect information on why getting rid of the ragbuck is good for America and for getting people to sign on to petitions so it looks like there is a large group of people who want the government to save us money? The site could have a list of congressmen and whether any of them have known positions on their issue.

From what I've seen in general press so far, it seems that more Americans want to use Liberty Dollars than get rid of the rag buck

Some more organization would be helpful.

flaminio · December 13, 2006 9:32AM

Who pays cash for auto work? That stuff always goes on the credit card.

The only people who need large denomination bills are criminals and coin dealers.

mrpotatoheadd · December 13, 2006 9:33AM

<< Many people have noted that the vast majority of Americans do NOT want the dollar bill removed... >>

I've seen this stated lots of times. I wonder how it was determined, since most of the people I've asked about it on and off over the last couple of years said they didn't really care one way or the other. For the record, I realize my survey sample is severely limited, but since the Sac dollar came out, I seriously doubt that even half of the people in the US have been offered a dollar coin in change. Walmart's gimmick in 2000 notwithstanding, nobody I know has.

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:35AM

<< 

<< Many people have noted that the vast majority of Americans do NOT want the dollar bill removed... >>

I've seen this stated lots of times. I wonder how it was determined, since most of the people I've asked about it on and off over the last couple of years said they didn't really care one way or the other. For the record, I realize my survey sample is severely limited, but since the Sac dollar came out, I seriously doubt that even half of the people in the US have been offered a dollar coin in change. Walmart's gimmick in 2000 notwithstanding, nobody I know has. >>

Well, as I mentioned in another thread, my bank teller told me the majority of Americans he deals with actually refuse the baby dollars so that means they at least know what it is. Other people have said they have had similar experiences at their banks.

flaminio · December 13, 2006 9:35AM

<< To take things one step further, has anyone set up an anti-ragbuck website to collect information on why getting rid of the ragbuck is good for America >>

Jim Benfield used to have a good one at coincoalition.org. Unfortunately, he died, and the domain lapsed to a squatter.

You can still see the site at archive.org, for example, this page: Why A $1 Coin?

Coxe · December 13, 2006 9:35AM

<< Who pays cash for auto work? That stuff always goes on the credit card.

The only people who need large denomination bills are criminals and coin dealers. >>

Well, someone said something about paying a mechanic or something like that, perhaps hypothetically. Anyway, we all know caash is needed on a bourse. Not everyone will take a check and few will consider a credit card. Cash isn't just for dealers.

Coxe · December 13, 2006 9:37AM

<< I seriously doubt that even half of the people in the US have been offered a dollar coin in change. Walmart's gimmick in 2000 notwithstanding, nobody I know has. >>

I know you might not whip out a $2 bill at some consumer elctronics stores unless you want to wait for the secret service shackled to a pole.

edited to add>> Here is one of many references to the incident to which I refer.

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:38AM

<< 

<< I seriously doubt that even half of the people in the US have been offered a dollar coin in change. Walmart's gimmick in 2000 notwithstanding, nobody I know has. >>

I know you might not whip out a $2 bill at some consumer elctronics stores unless you want to wait for the secret service shackled to a pole. >>

Yeah, use those at places that come equipped with poles

Zoins · December 13, 2006 9:40AM

<< 

<< To take things one step further, has anyone set up an anti-ragbuck website to collect information on why getting rid of the ragbuck is good for America >>

Jim Benfield used to have a good one at coincoalition.org. Unfortunately, he died, and the domain lapsed to a squatter.

You can still see the site at archive.org, for example, this page: Why A $1 Coin? >>

Hmm, that's too bad. Who has the copyright for that info. Should someone resurrect that site but with a different domain? Maybe coin-coalition.org with a hypen?

flaminio · December 13, 2006 9:40AM

<< I know you might not whip out a $2 bill at some consumer elctronics stores unless you want to wait for the secret service shackled to a pole. >>

Or certain taco stands!

Those two stories notwithstanding, I've never had someone fail to accept either a $2 bill or a one dollar coin for a transaction. And as a money geek, I've spent thousands of them.

mrpotatoheadd · December 13, 2006 9:45AM

<< Those two stories notwithstanding, I've never had someone fail to accept either a $2 bill or a one dollar coin for a transaction. And as a money geek, I've spent thousands of them. >>

I get some at the bank now and then, and nobody seems to be upset or inconvenienced when I spend them. To be honest, I've found that half dollars seem to confuse more people than the dollar coins do.

fastrudy · December 13, 2006 9:49AM

Hey MS70

We are not a democracy, but a democratic republic, as stated above.

Majority of citizens does not rule. Majority of votes in Congress rules.

I agree with the Kennedy/Kerry factor.

What If....the US Stoppd Printing $1 Bills

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