Ohio Coin Funds Profitable!

prenum · December 5, 2006 9:43AM

I never met Tom Noe, nor did any business with him. He may be a great guy or a scroundrel, I don't know. It's my opinion that he brought the world down on his head because his ego got out of control and among other things he decided to become a "President maker" and helped throw the Presidential election in 2004.

Now that Noe has been sentenced to 18 yrs. in Federal prison it turns out that the Ohio coin funds actually were a profitable investment (unlike several other Ohio funds that have been badly managed and lost tens of millions)!

From the Dec. 11th Coin World "A spokesman for [Ohio Attorney General] Petro thinks it [the state] may recover more than the original $50 million investment. " CW continues, "Mark Anthony, a spokesman for the office of attorney general" commented that 'the state should recover more than it invested". The total amount to be recovered as disclosed in the CW article adds up to between $53.2 million and $54.3 million. Finally, "Lucas County ... Judge Thomas Osowik...ruled that the value of the funds could not be revealed ... during the state's [Noe's] criminal trial." Hmmm, do you think that the jurors might have been swayed by the fact that the FUNDS MADE MONEY!!!

If Noe doesn't fire his legal staff and appeal his conviction I'll be shocked! Sounds like Noe was convicted, not for losing money, but for the style with which he managed it. 18 yrs. sounds like a lot of bad style points!!!

MrEureka · December 5, 2006 9:47AM

What if Noe made $20 million for the state and stole $16 million?

Of course I don't know what the true numbers are. Most likely, even Noe doesn't know.

tradedollarnut · December 5, 2006 9:48AM

I agree that 18 years was too harsh and that Noe should appeal his sentence. HOWEVER, I must say that the opportunity certainly existed during that time period to make substantially more profit than that.

goose3 · December 5, 2006 9:49AM

Tom Noe now caused John F'N Kerry to lose?

CaptHenway · December 5, 2006 9:50AM

<< What if Noe made $20 million for the state and stole $16 million?

Of course I don't know what the true numbers are. Most likely, even Noe doesn't know. >>

That is the most likely scenario.
Hell, they could have done better with Certificates of Deposit!!!
TD

coinguy1 · December 5, 2006 9:53AM

<<Hmmm, do you think that the jurors might have been swayed by the fact that the FUNDS MADE MONEY!!!>>

They might have been swayed, but they shouldn't have been. To my knowledge, the trial wasn't about how the fund performed, but rather, Noe's misconduct in misappropriating and or stealing $.

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer.

RichieURich · December 5, 2006 9:54AM

OK, let's talk numbers. Noe was given $50 million to invest in 1998. Let's take the best number from Don's article and say it's correct that the funds are or will be worth $54.3 million when they are liquidated. So under this scenario, the funds would have made $4.3 million or a total of 8.6% over 7 to 8 years. A whopping return of 1.2% per year compounded for the 7 year period. During a bull market in coins, an experienced professional made 1.2% per year for the fund he managed? Anyone who threw darts at the Greysheet in 1998 and then bought those coins should have made at least 5% compounded, and here is an experienced professional making a 1.2% compound rate of return? I'd call this a pi$$poor investment performance during a bull market in coins! Anyone who had clients they put into coins in 1998, that they made 1.2% per year compounded, I'm guessing still doesn't have those clients!

prenum · December 5, 2006 10:03AM

All good points. Just remember the whole investigation supposedly started because money was missing, unaccounted for and supposedly lost.

I'm not trying to justify Noe's behavoir, or the rate of return, both are pathetic, but come on go back and look at how some of the other state funds have performed.

And yes, if Ohio had gone for Kerry he would have won the election. Try reading Bob Woodwards book if you don't know what happened.

Noe got run over by some people that he should never have messed with. Let's say it this way - if he had stayed out of the politics he would never have been investigated!

TheRaven · December 5, 2006 10:11AM

Bush beat Kerry by 100000+ votes in Ohio in 2004.....

Get over it .....

I just hate that we get taxed on coins here in Ohio now.....

RichieURich · December 5, 2006 10:12AM

<< What if Noe made $20 million for the state and stole $16 million?

Of course I don't know what the true numbers are. Most likely, even Noe doesn't know. >>

I agree with Andy. If we would know what Noe knows and know what Noe doesn't know, we would know whether they were too harsh on Noe, but maybe they were too harsh on Noe because they didn't know what Noe knew when they knew that money was missing, but they didn't know that Noe's records wouldn't allow us to know what Noe knew about where all of the money was, and know that Noe knew that the records were so messed up that no one would know where the money was.

Now after that last sentence, I know you're going to say "That's easy for you to say", but no, it isn't.

dbldie55 · December 5, 2006 10:16AM

<< Bush beat Kerry by 100000+ votes in Ohio in 2004.....

Get over it ..... >>

Don't let facts get in the way. You should be reading some book that tells otherwise.

If they would have closed the polls in my home town when they were supposed to, The Republicans would hold the senate. Sh*t happens.

tradedollarnut · December 5, 2006 10:30AM

<< <<Hmmm, do you think that the jurors might have been swayed by the fact that the FUNDS MADE MONEY!!!>>

They might have been swayed, but they shouldn't have been. To my knowledge, the trial wasn't about how the fund performed, but rather, Noe's misconduct in misappropriating and or stealing $.

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer. >>

You're actually Tom Noe?

prenum · December 5, 2006 10:39AM

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer. >>

You're actually Tom Noe?

coinkat · December 5, 2006 10:44AM

<< TextFor reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer. >>

ccr · December 5, 2006 11:58AM

<< Ohio Coin Funds Profitable! >>

For this years political campaign, he was for the Democrats at least. He was their " Flavor of the Month " the last three months of the campaign ads. Alot of people where sick of Tafts` tax and tariff increases anyway. The Tom Noe trial just added fuel to the fire. No love lost from me to see the Republicans gone here in Ohio except in Mike DeWines`. I still kinda liked the guy and hoped to the end he would win.

Wasn`t Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell the one that said he would personnally guaranty the state of Ohio for Bush a few weeks before the 2004 election?

Pretty scary and embarrassing.

Tom Noe was shown to take money from the fund that wasn`t designated to him. But, wonder if he was a patsy for political gain outside of a smear campaign.

I don`t know and have no hard facts but, I wonder sometimes if there is more then is being said.

MrEureka · December 5, 2006 12:07PM

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer.

I'm guessing coinguy is joining Legend and he is stepping aside for a superior corporate spokesperson.

No, not you, TDN.

Frankcoins · December 5, 2006 12:09PM

The prosecutors claimed the difference between Noe's cost and what they were sold to state investment fund for was "theft," even though Noe acquired some of the coins when the market was much lower.

Frankcoins · December 5, 2006 12:19PM

<< 
If they would have closed the polls in my home town when they were supposed to, The Republicans would hold the senate. Sh*t happens. >>

So people who are in line when the polls are supposed to close whould be sent home?

MrEureka · December 5, 2006 12:33PM

The prosecutors claimed the difference between Noe's cost and what they were sold to state investment fund for was "theft," even though Noe acquired some of the coins when the market was much lower.

I disagee with the prosecutors. Then again, it's hard to imagine that explaining more than $1 million of the amount in dispute.

Connecticoin · December 5, 2006 1:04PM

<< <<Hmmm, do you think that the jurors might have been swayed by the fact that the FUNDS MADE MONEY!!!>>

They might have been swayed, but they shouldn't have been. To my knowledge, the trial wasn't about how the fund performed, but rather, Noe's misconduct in misappropriating and or stealing $.

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer. >>

Hmmm -- that came out of the blue -- rather bizzare coming from Feld.

Wolf359 · December 5, 2006 1:23PM

It's my opinion that he brought the world down on his head because his ego got out of control and among other things he decided to become a "President maker" and helped throw the Presidential election in 2004.

That comment is way over the top, and does not belong on this forum.

mrearlygold · December 5, 2006 2:24PM

pharmer · December 5, 2006 2:31PM

<< It's my opinion that he brought the world down on his head because his ego got out of control and among other things he decided to become a "President maker" and helped throw the Presidential election in 2004.

That comment is way over the top, and does not belong on this forum. >>

Gee, no kidding. This prenum/don willis has a way about him, huh?

You caught this one too, didn't you?:

<< Noe got run over by some people that he should never have messed with. Let's say it this way - if he had stayed out of the politics he would never have been investigated! >>

prenum · December 5, 2006 2:54PM

If it's over the top to state the obvious, then guilty as charged.

Noe has already been convicted and sentenced for illegial campaign contributions to Bush. Was it just so he could ride in Air Force One?

Anyone who was watching the 2004 election should be aware that Ohio in 2004 was the Florida of 2000. Polling lines of upto 7 hrs. in Democratic precints?? A Secretary of State - who's responsibilities include monitoring elections - guaranteeing a Bush victory - before the polls even opened?? It wasn't until 10:30 AM the morning after the election that Kerry decided not to repeat the fiasco of Florida and conceded the election. The fact that the Democrates swept the state in the last election give anyone a clue??

This isn't about politics it's about an unchecked ego. That's usually how people who have seen some success do themselves in. Noe is not the only one.

Connecticoin · December 5, 2006 10:40PM

<< If it's over the top to state the obvious, then guilty as charged.

Noe has already been convicted and sentenced for illegial campaign contributions to Bush. Was it just so he could ride in Air Force One?

Anyone who was watching the 2004 election should be aware that Ohio in 2004 was the Florida of 2000. Polling lines of upto 7 hrs. in Democratic precints?? A Secretary of State - who's responsibilities include monitoring elections - guaranteeing a Bush victory - before the polls even opened?? It wasn't until 10:30 AM the morning after the election that Kerry decided not to repeat the fiasco of Florida and conceded the election. The fact that the Democrates swept the state in the last election give anyone a clue??

This isn't about politics it's about an unchecked ego. That's usually how people who have seen some success do themselves in. Noe is not the only one. >>

Oh, stop whining. You don't have a Republican governor anymore (come January), and no Republicans in congress. Have fun!

dbldie55 · December 5, 2006 11:01PM

Anyone who thinks kerry won Ohio is not only being dishonest to themselves, but is an outright stupid person. This election had nothing to do with 2004 and to think so shows nothing but ignorance.

prenum · December 6, 2006 2:14AM

The point of this was not to debate the 2004 election.

dbldie55 - You must get all your 'facts' from FOX news. If you were more intellectually curious you might have heard of the Conyers Report which outlined in detail many of the irregularities in Ohio that definitely could have cost Kerry the election.

Or you could have read:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200501080003

or several other articles on the subject.

Noe was sentenced to 18 yrs. in prison and his funds made money. And you don't think there was a vendetta??

Conder101 · December 6, 2006 2:16AM

Ignoring the politics angle, I would not call an investment fund that failed to even keep up with the rate of inflation "profitable". If he had just parked the money in CD's at 3% the state would have cleared 10 million dollars more than it did. And even 3% would be a pretty crummy return for a professional money manager. But Noe wasn't convicted because his fund didn't perform well, he was convicted for misappropriation of funds and conversion of state funds for personal gain.

Ohio Coin Funds Profitable!

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