1822 - The fifteenth informative picture thread covering Capped Bust Half series. Join the fun.
MikeKing
Posts: 847
HERE ARE THE LINKS TO THE OTHER THREADS: YOU CAN POST TO THESE THREADS ANYTIME...IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!!
Complete Series of Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollars (summary posted with all the links, courtesy of Kyle AKA CoinAddict)
This is the FIFTHTEENTH in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order.
1822 starts today, 1821 starts Thurs. 12/7, 1820 starts Sun. 12/10, and this pattern continues on down.
THE 1818 LOOKS LIKE IT IS STILL OPEN, SO VOLUNTEERS, PLEASE CONTACT MOZIN THROUGH
THIS THREAD: Volunteers Needed Thread
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
*******************************1822*********************************
According to Souders, this is sub-design type #4 of 1817-1825 (HUB #4).
Scot is the engraver.
There are 4 different kinds of "2" used in minting Bust Halves. They have either a square base, or a curled base. They have either a curled top or a knobbed top. The "2" used in this coin is a 'curled top, square base 2'.
The mintage for this year was 1,559,573 using 14 obverse and 14 reverse dies, allowing for 15 different die marriages.
This is the 1822 50C O-111, a Rarity 2, where the right side of the I is under the left side of the T. There are lumps under the right wing and some (minor) lumps under the left wing, and the 2nd and 3rd crossbars extend into the right wing.
This particular coin shows the 'center dot' on Liberty's neck very well.
The 'center dot' by the way, was incused on the Working Die by the tip of a compass used by the engraver to scribe a line around the periphery.
Complete Series of Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollars (summary posted with all the links, courtesy of Kyle AKA CoinAddict)
This is the FIFTHTEENTH in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order.
1822 starts today, 1821 starts Thurs. 12/7, 1820 starts Sun. 12/10, and this pattern continues on down.
THE 1818 LOOKS LIKE IT IS STILL OPEN, SO VOLUNTEERS, PLEASE CONTACT MOZIN THROUGH
THIS THREAD: Volunteers Needed Thread
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
*******************************1822*********************************
According to Souders, this is sub-design type #4 of 1817-1825 (HUB #4).
Scot is the engraver.
There are 4 different kinds of "2" used in minting Bust Halves. They have either a square base, or a curled base. They have either a curled top or a knobbed top. The "2" used in this coin is a 'curled top, square base 2'.
The mintage for this year was 1,559,573 using 14 obverse and 14 reverse dies, allowing for 15 different die marriages.
This is the 1822 50C O-111, a Rarity 2, where the right side of the I is under the left side of the T. There are lumps under the right wing and some (minor) lumps under the left wing, and the 2nd and 3rd crossbars extend into the right wing.
This particular coin shows the 'center dot' on Liberty's neck very well.
The 'center dot' by the way, was incused on the Working Die by the tip of a compass used by the engraver to scribe a line around the periphery.
0
Comments
Some diagnostics for “so called” 1822/1 O-101 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. The date is progressively lower from left to right. The second “2” is much heavier than the first “2”, most notable at the base. A tiny vertical die line goes through the middle of the “2”, from base through tip of curl. Star 7 points to upper edge of headband, and is very close to it. Star 13 has a blunt point, and is very close to the curl.
Reverse: Crossbar 4 extends far into right wing. There is a small centering dot between crossbars 4 and 5 at left. “I” is under the right serif of “A”.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
Sorry about the color but the coin is really white with some rim toneing. This my first and only CBH, any information you can give me will be appreciated
Dan
E's are extra large,On all 'A's,the right inside serifs are missing,and the left stand of the 'A's are thin and crooked.
Nice loking coins,guys. 123cents,I'll give yours a shot next.
the first 2.Overton says very early die states show6 lines below star 12 at milling.Rev last A is 1/4 mm from
arrow,right sides of T and I in line.
Nice work. Looks good to me.
Obverse die 7 and Reverse die F.
Obverse: Star 1 is 1 1/4 mm from drapery. Star 7 very close to front of cap and is appoximately 1/2 mm above headband. A button can be saw at the folded down crown of the cap and is the only such variety.
Reverse: 50 C. is 2mm. Words of legend close together. There is approximately 1 mm between D-S, S-O, and F-A at closest points. Letters are well seperated.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
rough die patch under the left wing.
[/IMG]
Ed Souders makes a comment in his Top 100 R4 and R5 Capped Bust Half Dollar book that Al Overton never saw an example of the prime state of this variety. The 103a die state has a die crack through the top of star six to the bust. A reply from Sheridan Downey to a question about the rarity of the prime form stated that they are almost as commonly found as the 103a (commonly found in a R.5 kind of way!). For a while I thought I might have picked up an R.6 (old assigned rarity). BHNC has recently downgraded the prime state to R. 5
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Please send all coins you forgot you had to me. I'll remember them!
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Some diagnostics for "so called" 1822/1 O-102 R4+:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. There is a small break within the last "2" that makes it appear like it is over a "1". Last "2" is much heavier than the first. The upper inner space between points of star 12 shows a series of dots. This LDS specimen shows a crack from top of "8" to curl, another from curl to lower point of star 13, and to edge. A third crack starts at edge by star 3, and curves up to chin. This specimen lacks the final crack from edge at second crack to star 12.
Reverse: Bold centering dot between crossbars 4 & 5 at left. Right sides of "I" and "T" are in line.
Some diagnostics for 1822 O-103a R5-:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. Date is high and wide. Star 10 is recut at all three lower points. On this LDS, a crack shows from the edge through the upper points of star 6, and to bridge of Miss Liberty’s nose. Another crack joins top of date to drapery, and to star 13.
Reverse: Large centering dot between crossbars 4 & 5. Left sides of “D” and “E” are in line. Right sides of “I” and “T” are in line.
It is and O-115, R3, which is easy to attribute. The key things are:
REVERSE (N):
The placement of the E of EPLURIBUS, centered between the ED of UNITED
AND
The inside right serifs of all 3 A's is missing. (similar to REVs H and M)
Center dot betweencrossbars 3 and 4.
OBVERSE (14):
Stars 7-8-13 all about 1/2 mm from cap and curl.
Some diagnostics for 1822 O-105 R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. Date is close, with tight curls on the “2’s”.
Reverse: There is a clump of dots in the field above the eagle’s neck, below “M”. “50” and “C” are widely spaced. “I” is centered under left side of “T”.
Note: Most specimens have numerous reverse die cracks. This specimen is an EDS showing no cracks anywhere, possibly R5 DS. A VLDS exists with a heavy break through stars 10 to 13, another crack from star 10 to cap, possibly R7.
I will show one of the characteristics of the Reverse on the 115 (reverse N) that differentiates it from the very similar reverse M of the O-114.
Most examples show a die crack that passes through MERICA and leaves a small lump at the center of the R. This crack continues through 50C to the edge below the leaves.
The slightly uncommon die marriage was struck using Obverse die 10 and Reverse die I. This was the only use of these dies. This was the 2nd to the last 1822 die marriage struck in that year.
There are two quick, easy identifiers for this die marriage. They both are on the reverse.
(1) There are distinct double lines in the left margin of the shield.
(2) There is a triangular space below the shield between stripes 3 and 4.
Both of these identifiers are marked by arrows on the reverse of the IDS coin following.
Photos of the 1822 O-110, R2:
**********************************************
The Late Die State of this die marriage has
(1) A die crack inside and through the stars on the left.
(2) A fine die crack near the base of ATES OF.
The coin I am picturing is an Intermediate Die State. The complete obverse die crack is present. But only part of the reverse die crack is there. The reverse die crack on my coin runs between the E and S about a 1/4 mm up from the base of these letters. I have marked it with an arrow.
This IDS coin qualifies for the O-113a Overton die marriage and die state designation because both the EDS and the LDS have the same rarity rating.
Photos of the 1822 O-110a, R2:
Pretty, pretty O-110! If you every GET SICK OF IT - I would be more than happy to take it off your hands!
Edgar
Edgar
Here is one we are missing.
Some diagnostics for 1822 O-108a R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and is attached to front of cap. Stars are clear of milling. On this LDS, a crack runs from drapery, across top of date, lower curl, inner points of stars 11 & 12, and into star 10.
Reverse: There is a fine line in the shield, just under the lowest crossbar at left, continues through stripe 1, then turns down to form a fourth stripe. “R” and ”I” nearly touch, and “R” is higher. On this LDS, a die chip partially fills the top angle of “N”, and there are numerous die cracks. “I” is far left of “T”.
The 1822 O-104, R3 die marriage.
This die marriage was struck using Obverse die 4 and Reverse die C. This was the only use of these dies.
The key diagnostic indentifier for this die marriage is the N in UNITED. The N is considerably higher than the U and the I.
Photos of the 1822 O-104, R3:
This die marriage was struck using Obverse die 9 and Reverse die H. This was the only use of these dies.
There are two quick identifiers for this die marriage:
(1) The point of star 7 in embedded in the cap.
(2) The inside serifs on the right bases of the A's are missing.
Photos of my 1822 O-109, R2:
Some diagnostics for 1822 O-113 R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. Star 7 points to center of dentil, and to junction of curl and headband. On this EDS, there are numerous bold mostly parallel lines from star 1 to near date.
Reverse: R and I nearly touch. R is higher and has a thick base. Second T in STATES is low, while the A is rotated CCW. A1 and A3 are missing their inner right serifs. On this EDS, a bold die line extends from each tip of the leftmost pair of leaves. I is far left of T.
Note: This specimen has a rotated die.
This was the 2nd Bust Half struck in the calendar year 1823. The 1823 O-108 DM was struck immediately prior to this 1822 DM.
The obverse of this very scarce die marriage was struck using Obverse die 12. This is the first of two uses of this die. It was used immediately after to strike the scarce 1822 O-113 die marriage.
The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Reverse die K. This was the second of three uses of this reverse die. The reverse die (named Reverse die B in the 1823 CBH series) was first used to strike the 1823 O-108. It was used later to strike the 1823 O-102.
Quick identifiers for this die marriage are on the reverse of the coin:
(1) The inside right bases of the A's are mostly missing.
(2) The first S in STATES is higher than the adjacent T.
(3) The 4th cross bar in the shield extends right past the border of the shield about 1/2 mm. (It's the 8th cross bar from the top, the 4th from the bottom.)
Photos of my 1822 O-112, R4:
1822 O-107, also known as the Button Cap Variety.
This variety gets its name from what looks to be a button at the folded down crown of the cap. According to Edgar Souders, he says in his book "Bust Half Fever" ( a must read book) that the intention for the existence of this variety is unknown. Edgar goes on to say this will probably remain a debatable point, but adds that it is a highly sought after variety that has unique characteristics in the entire series of over 450 die marriages.
I was lucky enough to be able to purchase this coin from our fellow board member edmerir, thanks Ed for another great CBH, this one is a real beauty
122/123
John Reich Collectors Society
Capped Bust Dimes
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
It's been two whole months since the last posting on the 1822 thread.
The 1822 O-108a, R3 has been posted, but we are still MISSING the O-108, R3. I have the O-108a, but my O-108 is an Intermediate Die State.
We are looking for the Early Die State of the O-108. It's only a R3, so somebody out there must have one.
Ok. Fess up! Who has one?
In the meantime here are my 1822's. They are on these Dansco album pages.
(The faint horizontal lines on some of the coins' photos are hairline scratches on the album's plastic slides.)
Some diagnostics for Button Cap 1822 O-107 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. There is a circular ornament on the cap, just where the upper and lower portions meet. Star 7 points to upper half of dentil, front of cap, and nearly touches cap.
Reverse: Words in the legend are very closely spaced. Right side of I is under left side of T.
Note: This specimen has a rotated die.
Lance.
Jim
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
This is not an overdate!!!!
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com