"Road Show" Coin Buyers exposed
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
Our local Fox News station did a feature tonight wherein they took six decent slabs to two of the traveling coin buyer road shows and got offered $12+K the first time, $15+K at a different roadie and $14+K by the first company during a second visit a few months later.
Then they showed two nationally-known dealers at the Rosemont show here back in June offering a high $18K and a low $19K for the same coins. The owner of one road show refused to talk with the TV station. The other one said that dealers at coin shows inflate their buys because they know that people don't go to shows to sell, and only go there to get free appraisals! Right!!!!
TD
Then they showed two nationally-known dealers at the Rosemont show here back in June offering a high $18K and a low $19K for the same coins. The owner of one road show refused to talk with the TV station. The other one said that dealers at coin shows inflate their buys because they know that people don't go to shows to sell, and only go there to get free appraisals! Right!!!!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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I don't see any expose here, or why it even makes news. The local pawn shop might offer $5,000 for the same coins. No one has to accept the offer. Duh. The road show buyers probably go to sell at the coin show. The dealers at the coin show are looking for retail clients where the coins are $21,000+. It is just business.
What kind of coins were offered for appraisal at Rosemont and at the roadshow?
Come to think of it, a $12,000 vs. $18,000(+) disparity isn't that bad. It's not unusual for those roadshow organizers to rip deals for pennies on the dollar. For an $18,000 lot it wouldn't surprise me if the roadshow buy offer was less than $2,000 or so for those same group of coins.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
MS64 NGC Slabbed Liberty $20 gold. What would you pay for them?
Bid is $1220. Would you be ripping off the old lady if you paid $750 for them???
Now if the same price was paid at a coin auction with over 50 people in attendance, what would you say then???
Happened to me the other day. Guess I was awake as the others were asleep or out of money!!! Needless to say I took both on a choice of A or B.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Might have figured the person had some idea of the value....
Now, take the same coins and offer them to the same people, raw, then I would wonder what kind of disparity there is
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Now, take the same coins and offer them to the same people, raw, then I would wonder what kind of disparity there is >>
removing the grading company slab from a LOT of coins would cut the value down to sometimes barely over face.
<< <i>
<< <i>Now, take the same coins and offer them to the same people, raw, then I would wonder what kind of disparity there is >>
removing the grading company slab from a LOT of coins would cut the value down to sometimes barely over face. >>
.................especially for ulta high grade moderns.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Prices will vary from merchant to merchany ANYwhere
Trusted Name in Numismatics & the Error Coin Hobby for OVER 25 Years
I could also ask, why is the Republican party perceived as more fiscally conservative than Democrats, when the Reagan and Bush administrations have engaged in far more deficit spending that Carter and Clinton's?
The coins included a 1799 Draped Bust Dollar, a 1794 Large Cent and a $3 Gold piece. All pieces as I remember were graded by PCGS. The large cent may have been NGC. There were a few other coins too.
If anything, the June show would have been lower prices. Remember all the continuous talk about prices going up on here? How great the market continues to be? Therefore, any "market fluctuations" would not really matter. If anything, it makes this even worse than a 50% spread.
If everyone thinks that a road show ripping people off for $7000 is acceptable as has been suggested, can send the $7000 to me any time. My bank account is open.
My local B&M dealers buy at 30c on the dollar at times for coins of the caliber listed. Now they aren't slabbed mind you, but paying 30% is stretching it. Take those same coins to any major show and I'll guarantee you that you will get a spread of $12-$19K as you show them to a large number of dealers. Walk those into most of the local shops in my region and you'll get offers under $12K. Bust dollars are all over the place. I would pay well under bid for one of those. Who am I gonna sell it to? You see them in quantity at even small shows these days. What if those coins were low end quality to boot (more than likely that was the case since 75% of what is on the market just floats around looking for homes)? Possibly the dealers offering $17-19K were CDN readers and knew too little about coins to realize they were blue sheet coins. The list is endless. At any major auction you will have dealers drop out at half what a coin realizes. Were they crooks? Or do the higher bidders wear rose colored glasses?
This is the basic secret of the coin biz. Your coins are only worth what someone is willing to pay. In many cases you can't even get offers on your coins. Most people don't find this out until they finally decide to sell their holdings and take a breather from the hobby.
roadrunner
<< <i>Possibly the dealers offering $17-19K were CDN readers and knew too little about coins to realize they were blue sheet coins. >>
Perhaps. It's also possible they had retail customers with want lists where they thought they could quickly flip these coins, while the $12K offer came from dealers who would just flip them wholesale.
<< <i>$12,000 offer at a hotel road show, vs. $18,000 at real coin show doesn't sound so bad. >>
My feelings exactly. When an outfit comes into town and runs full-page newspaper ads, it's very costly.....
No expose here. A non-event......
<< <i>... I think I saw an AU 1794 cent, maybe a flowing hair in fine... >>
Widgets!
They did an excellent job with it.
<< <i>
<< <i>$12,000 offer at a hotel road show, vs. $18,000 at real coin show doesn't sound so bad. >>
My feelings exactly. When an outfit comes into town and runs full-page newspaper ads, it's very costly.....
No expose here. A non-event...... >>
And a "real" dealer doesn't have a lease to pay, phone and phone book listings, electricity, shows (local and/or national), a base inventory, etc.
Come on. People on here bash dealers who take advantage of the old lady bringing in her late husband's rare coin collection. This is the same scenario.
<< <i>I caught this broadcast! They ended the segment with the advice, buy the book before the coin.
They did an excellent job with it. >>
Why do I think this is going to end with a bunch of folks buying Red Books and then going to a local dealer and getting offered 50% below the values listed and thinking dealers are all like the road show folks?
Sigh. I did not see it, but from what I am reading, it looks to me like a big waste of air time, that will make many coin dealers look like bad guys and gals when they are typical average business people.
Reality check please. Coins, especially high value coins, trade for a wide variety of values. I am surprised at the tight $18k to $19k offers at the coin show. There are times offers will vary by 30% or more dealer to dealer, depending on their needs, if they are going to wholesale it, or have a retail buyer they know is interested. Auction results will often show a 50% or more difference on coins in the same grade, same company's holder.
<< <i>Why do I think this is going to end with a bunch of folks buying Red Books and then going to a local dealer and getting offered 50% below the values listed and thinking dealers are all like the road show folks? >>
True. Too many people don't understand that not all (say) $100 coins will get the same offer. Some may get $80-85 if it's one that a dealer believes they can quickly turn around for $100 or more, and some may get $50 if the demand is thin and liquidity is low. This is one thing few sellers who don't understand the coin business can see, so if they have something like F-VF three cent nickels, they may not understand why they get half of Red Book value while people selling other types with more liquidity can get $80.
<< <i>Reality check please. Coins, especially high value coins, trade for a wide variety of values. I am surprised at the tight $18k to $19k offers at the coin show. There are times offers will vary by 30% or more dealer to dealer, depending on their needs, if they are going to wholesale it, or have a retail buyer they know is interested. Auction results will often show a 50% or more difference on coins in the same grade, same company's holder. >>
But this depends greatly on the look of the coin and if it truly meets the grade on the holder. Don't take differing auctino results out of context.
I am really surprised that the entire group defending the road show prices. To me, it came across as greater than 30% below bid (they didn't mention specific prices or greysheet values so it's hard to say). Any dealer making those kind of offers are usually bashed here. Why not now?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Dealers who aren't specialists in a particular series may buy other coins, but they may wholesale them out to others...or they may try to sell them themselves, but they may sell slowly because most people looking at their inventory aren't in the market for the "wrong" type of coin. But dealers who are specialists in that series probably have a lot of eyes looking at the "right" type of coin (within their specialty) and the coin can sell more quickly, at full retail. So it makes sense that some dealers -- particularly specialists -- can offer more for Coin A than Coin B even though both have an equivalent FMV, and vice-versa.
All publicity is good publicity. Certainly it's not as goo publicity for the road
shows as it is for the hobby. I think their defence wasn't too far off though.
They used hidden cameras at the road shows and not at MidAm. It might
also matter who offered these coins.
At least the show was generally positive to coins.