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1829-The 8th informative picture thread covering the Capped Bust Half Series. Post your CBH's
MikeKing
Posts: 847
This is a great series of threads! Great photos, great coins and great varieties.
PLEASE CONTRIBUTE: You don't have to know anything about Bust Half varieties to make a comment, even if it's to say 'I like this coin..',
it helps to keep the thread lively, and all input is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!
Link to CoinAddicts thread for 1830-1836!!!!
YOU CAN POST TO THESE THREADS ANYTIME...IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!!
This is the 8th in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order.
1829 starts today, 11/09, 1828 will start SUNDAY 11/12 and this pattern continues on down.
Volunteers, check out this thread!!!!
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
**************************************1829****************************************
William Kneass was the Chief Engraver this year.
Over three million Busties were minted this year out of 11 obverse dies and 16 reverse dies, causing 20 marriages (varieties) for the year.
According to Souders, both HUB #5 of 1825-1831 and HUB #6 of 1826-1830 were used this year.
The only 1829 I have is an Overton 119, and I will use the photos taken my Mike Printz
The obverse shows the 9 is higher than the 182
and the reverse has crossbars jutting into the R wing
I don't have blowups to show you now, but I'll try to put them here later today.
PLEASE CONTRIBUTE: You don't have to know anything about Bust Half varieties to make a comment, even if it's to say 'I like this coin..',
it helps to keep the thread lively, and all input is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!
Link to CoinAddicts thread for 1830-1836!!!!
YOU CAN POST TO THESE THREADS ANYTIME...IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!!
This is the 8th in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order.
1829 starts today, 11/09, 1828 will start SUNDAY 11/12 and this pattern continues on down.
Volunteers, check out this thread!!!!
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
**************************************1829****************************************
William Kneass was the Chief Engraver this year.
Over three million Busties were minted this year out of 11 obverse dies and 16 reverse dies, causing 20 marriages (varieties) for the year.
According to Souders, both HUB #5 of 1825-1831 and HUB #6 of 1826-1830 were used this year.
The only 1829 I have is an Overton 119, and I will use the photos taken my Mike Printz
The obverse shows the 9 is higher than the 182
and the reverse has crossbars jutting into the R wing
I don't have blowups to show you now, but I'll try to put them here later today.
0
Comments
EZ_E/Victor/Mr.Yuk: lover of prehistoric, megabeast-sized canines. EVP
The 182 has something going on as well, any thoughts?
You are correct, the entire 1829 date is recut. The 1829/7 O-101 has a very large "5" on the reverse, while the O-102 has a smaller "5" with a filled top. Obviously, yours is the O-102.
<< <i>
MrYuck,
Check out these points:
Obverse: star 1 points to lower edge of dentil, star 7 to upper half of dentil, star 8 between dentils, star 13 between dentils. There are probably five parallel die lines running diagonally between the "9" and the lowest star on the right.
Reverse: Stripe 6, the one farthest right, is solid. Line 3 of the stripe next to it extends up into the crossbars.
If these fit, you have O-112 R1. If not, someone else may offer more info.
Here is the 1829 O-101 which utilizes Obverse 1 and Reverse A
1829/1827
Some characteristics of this die marriage are:
Obv- Date is recut with the 1 and 8 slightly lower and the 2 and 9 ligher than the original date easily seen are the base of the first 2 and 7 at the base of the 2 and 9
Rev- The 50C is large, the C is high-usually weak- and nearly closed,Left sides of T and I are in line, The E in EPU is entirely recut and A2 is recut at the base.
It looks like more than a recut date, but I'm an idiot on some of this.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
<< <i>On the O-101 and 102, what's under the right side of the base of the 2.
It looks like more than a recut date, but I'm an idiot on some of this.
Hay Idhair,
What you are seeing is a curved based 2 punched over a square based 2. What you see under the right side of the 2 is the edge of the square base of the first cut 2.
Bruceswar- I don't have my Overton book with me and I don't want to give you bad info on your coins. If no one helps, I will when I get to my book.
<< <i>here is my 2nd 1829. I don't know the numbers to it either. Sorry to the crappy images. They are old. Thanks in Advance!!
Bruceswar,
This could be O-107 currently R3. Check star 8. It should point to the lower half of a dentil, rather than the upper half. The reverse looks to be reverse A, shared with O-101 & O-106. Notice how much thinner the "1" is on the O-106, compared to the O-107.
Check it out and let us know.
I thought it was AT, 20 years ago, but the color and the prints have grown over the years.
What do you think AT or NT? It just didn't matter when I bought it.
It just struck me as really cool at the time. O-?
edit to add this after some help. O108a R3
Your coin was easy to attribute, after seeing that last "A" in "AMERICA" both filled and showing a chipped die. Must be O-108a R3.
The coin appears to me to be artificially toned, but pretty nice otherwise.
I'll add an image of the A
ANACS made their first Capped Bust Half Dollar attribution error.
<< <i>Barndog,
ANACS made their first Capped Bust Half Dollar attribution error.
I'm sure their errors are just as common as NGC's on bust half dimes! The slab is only a suggestion, as far as I'm concerned.
Some diagnostics for 1829/1827 O-101 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. “18” is recut showing at top. “29” is recut showing below bases. The curl base "2" is cut over a square base "2". (Obverse shared with O-102.)
Reverse: Left base of A2 (First “A” in “AMERICA”) is recut, showing below base. A diagonal line extends up into the feathers from the apex of the shield. Close “50C” is high and large. Top of nearly closed “C” is weak, and close to olive stem. Left sides of “I” and “T” in line.
JJ
JJ,
Welcome to the Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollar series.
Your 1829 looks like O-103. The reverse is the same as O-102 shown earlier in this thread. Notice the strange stair step top on the "5". Star 7 points between dentils.
<< <i>[
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. “18” is recut showing at top. “29” is recut showing below bases. (Obverse shared with O-102.)
>>
Is that a curl-base 2 over a square-base 2?
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Yes, that is a curl base "2" cut over a square base "2". Good call.
Here's my 1829...
I know it has a hole in it but not much more...
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
Some diagnostics for 1829/7 O-102 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. “18” is recut showing at top. “29” is recut showing below bases. (Obverse shared with O-101.)
Reverse: Small “5” has a short flag showing a stair-step underside. It is also higher than “0”, and tipped to the left. “0” is recut, showing at bottom. Many lines of the first three stripes extend upwards into crossbars. Right side of “I” under left side of “T”.
Some diagnostics for 1829 O-104a R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. There is a triangular defect left of date protruding from the dentils. All stars on left drawn to edge. (Same obverse as O-103.)
Reverse: Right sides of “I” and “T” are in line. For this LDS state, A1 and A2 are filled at top. Very large and high “5” nearly touches feathers. Tail of “C” is recut. Rough die lump in field under eagle’s head. Die defect into field at junction of tail feathers and left wing.
Some diagnostics for 1829 O-111 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. “9” is recut, showing at right. Lips parted. (Same obverse as O-110.)
Reverse: A fairly long die line extends left from the end of the uppermost arrow feather at its top. Tip of flag on “5” is recut. A2 and A3 are filled inside their tops. Left side of “I” under right side of “T”. (Reverse shared with an earlier 1828 O-119.)
Some diagnostics for 1829 O-115 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 13 points to center of lower curl.
Reverse: Arrowheads are separated, and the lower one is recut showing behind the arrowhead above the shaft. Second “T” in “STATES” is elevated. The inner left shield border is extended at bottom. Right side of “I” is under left side of “T”.
Some diagnostics for 1829 O-112 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Five die lines run in parallel between “9” and star 13. Open mouth.
Reverse: Line 3 of stripe 5 extends upwards. Stripe 6 is solid. “50 C” is large and high. “I” is centered below “T”.
This is the only capped bust I have, and it was an impulse buy off the Bay. I bid on it because it wasn't too expensive, seemed in pretty good shape, and would be the oldest coin in my collection (by 24 years!).
If anyone can tell me anything about it, I would appreciate it. Also, if it was a good decision/buy at around $56. Thanks!
Joe
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Don't know the Overton number, maybe its one of the missing ones.
"This is the only capped bust I have, and it was an impulse buy off the Bay. I bid on it because it wasn't too expensive, seemed in pretty good shape, and would be the oldest coin in my collection (by 24 years!)."
Joe, you have an 1829 O-114, R3. R3 means that it is a scarce die marriage. ...but the R3's are usually priced the same as the more common R1's and R2's.
I checked Rutherford's "Bust Half Prices" and looked again at your coin.
You have a lower grade coin, the hairlines are obvious, and there a couple of circulation tics.
I have sold (in the recent past) coins like this on eBay and I generally get about as much as you paid for yours. Generally means plus or minus $15. How much I can get for a coin like this all depends on who is watching, how many people are interested, and a lot of dumb (good or bad) luck.
Regards,
edmerlr (this is also my eBay name)
A postscript:
If I seemed to be vague or spouting double-talk, feel free to go to my last eBay sales to view the prices I have received for coins like this.
Go to the eBay site, go to advanced search, then click on items by seller, type in my name (edmerlr).
I currently have no items for sale but my feedback score should come up.
Click on my feedback score. Click on feedback from buyers. You will see the item numbers on the right, click on the item numbers and you will see the prices that I received.
I only sell Lettered Edge Capped Bust Halves
Regards again,
edmerlr
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
For those of you looking for the Late Die State of the 1829 O-102 die marriage I thought I would post pictures of mine.
Don Parsley included for the first time the LDS (O-102a) in the 4th Edition of the Overton/Parsley book.
The diagnostics in the book explain that there is a die crack from edge below star 1 to bust. Bust Half die specialists believe this is in error. No O-102 has ever been found with a die crack as described in the book. If you find an O-102a with the die crack---as described in the book---buy it !! (no matter the condition or the grade)
The die crack that identifies the O-102a is a radial die crack that runs from clasp down through the 9 to the edge of the coin.
Photos of the 1829 O-102a, R5:
I look out and stare at the crowd without shame. I say firmly and without hesitating, "My name is Ed. I am a die state collector."
A few in the crowd clap. A few nod their heads (For a split second, I think I see slight glimmer of awareness and acceptance in their eyes). Most in the crowd just sit there with their coffee and wait for my next word. If smoking indoors was legal in this State, the room might be filled with smoke.
The crowd is now silent.
They understand what it is like to admit freely to others that they are powerless over something. It is never easy---no matter how many times you do it.
***
On page one of this Thread CoinAddict posted pictures of his 1829 O-114 die marriage.
It is time to show the O-114 Prime.
...but first we should talk about the die marriage.
This die marriage was struck using Obverse die 8 and Reverse die K. It was the second and last use of Obv. die 8 which was used before to strike the O-113 DM. This was the only use of the reverse die.
There are two quick, easy identifiers for this die marriage. Both are on the reverse of the coin.
(1) There are V shaped holes at the top of stripes 4, 5 and 6.
(2) Most, but not all, of this die marriage have filled A2's and A3's.
The O-114 Prime has NO FILLED A's. This would be a wonderful die state to cherrypick.
The numbers of specimens extant of the 1829 Prime is unknown. Herrman in his Auction Mail Bid Price Records shows the sales' records of two coins: A cleaned VF-20 in a 1994 Downey sale sold for $173. Another VF-20 sold in a 1995 Downey sale for $260. Herrman suggests that the O-114 Prime die state is probably a R7.
The coin I am picturing would be a 3rd example. ...a 4th example, I have been told, may exist in another BHNC collection. I am sure there are others out there in collections and/or in the marketplace, but very few people are looking for them.
I think I am accurate to state that most Bustie collectors either collect the Redbook Set or the Busties by die marriage. Very few Bustie collectors are, to any great depth, die state collectors.
This is a Catch 22 for the die state collector.
On the plus side, rare die states are quite often not recognized for their true rarity. Therefore many are not that expensive. There may be a limited supply of a specific die state, but there also is a limited demand.
On the negative side, rare die states will more than likely not sell for a price reflective of their true rarity. When the die state collector finds that he must part with his collection, the sale of these rare die states will not add much to his bank account.
Photos of my 1829 O-114 Prime, maybe a R7? : (A3 in the photo has "dirt" or something in it. It is not filled as is in die chip filled.)
Interesting comments, as usual. How about a larger picture of A3? You have not convinced me it is not partially filled. Have you tried soaking this coin for more than a few minutes in acetone? What is the red stuff showing in many crevices?
If your coin was an R7 marriage, instead of only a die state rarity, I would say it would be worth about $20,000.
Yep, die state collectors are a "bit different".
...one of my procrastinated projects is to "clean out" the A3 on the 1829 O-114 Prime. Unfortunately I have many more projects to do first.
(My 1829 O-114 Prime is from the Mike Marker collection.)
When I finish scanning all of my Busties I will be able to see which ones have green PVC contamination. At that time the contaminated coins---along with the 1829 O-114 Prime---will get the acetone treatment.
I will keep you informed.
Ed
...here's a larger picture of A3 on the 1829 O-114 Prime.
There is some kind of yellow crud in the top of the A. You can also see the crud around the base of the A.
If it were a modern cheap coin, I would try to ream the crud out with a toothpick.
...but because it's a Bustie, I will try the acetone bath and see if that works.
Regards,
Ed
Some diagnostics for 1829 O-113a R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. Star 7 points to lower half of dentil, and to top of curl. Star 13 is very close to curl. (Obverse shared with O-114.)
Reverse: “50 C” is high. On this LDS, the top of the last “A” in “AMERICA” is filled. Line 3 of stripe 1 extends to far upwards. Right sides of “I” and “T” are in line.
Edgar