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What's the best way to get a 70 grade?
RYK
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In another thread, an experienced modern coin dealer/submitter suggested that another forum member/collector crack out some ANACS 70's and submit them to PCGS, if he thought they were really 70's. (That's my understanding of the discussion, anyway.) On one hand, that seems quite logical. The coin is the coin is the coin. If it is a 70, it is a 70.
OTOH, based on what I have seen recently with the SAE Anniversary sets, the 70's are awarded largely to bulk submitters. Intuitively, it would seem to me, that if I had 20 examples of one type of coin in front of me, I might be able to pick out the one or two 70's from all of the 69's. However, if I am given one coin of the design, I would be hardpressed to award the coveted 70 grade. More elegantly stated, if you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick.
Does anyone have any real life experience with this. I have none and am shooting from the hip.
OTOH, based on what I have seen recently with the SAE Anniversary sets, the 70's are awarded largely to bulk submitters. Intuitively, it would seem to me, that if I had 20 examples of one type of coin in front of me, I might be able to pick out the one or two 70's from all of the 69's. However, if I am given one coin of the design, I would be hardpressed to award the coveted 70 grade. More elegantly stated, if you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick.
Does anyone have any real life experience with this. I have none and am shooting from the hip.
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Comments
<< <i>What's the best way to get a 70 grade? >>
Submit early in the month, before the quota is met.
<< <i>More elegantly stated, if you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick. >>
Works for Marty.
Russ, NCNE
IMHO, simply because bulk submitters "largely" submit most of the coins to begin with. That said - some of the very best % grading results I heard about from the 3-pc gold sets were from collectors submitting outside the bulk process.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"OTOH, based on what I have seen recently with the SAE Anniversary sets, the 70's are awarded largely to bulk submitters"
IMHO, simply because bulk submitters "largely" submit most of the coins to begin with. That said - some of the very best % grading results I heard about from the 3-pc gold sets were from collectors submitting outside the bulk process.
Wondercoin >>
Yes, I understand, too, that those who submit the largest number of coins are statistically likely to get the more higher graded coins (and more lower graded coins, etc.). It would be interesting to do an experiment in which you submit 100 coins of the same type to bulk, crack them out and resubmit them one at a time with coins of different types. Of course, you would need a second control group of 100 coins that is cracked and resubmitted again to bulk to cover the inherent grading inconsistency.
<< <i>Intuitively, it would seem to me, that if I had 20 examples of one type of coin in front of me, I might be able to pick out the one or two 70's from all of the 69's. However, if I am given one coin of the design, I would be hardpressed to award the coveted 70 grade. >>
I am a subsriber to the theory of [grading] relativity.
<< <i>Yes, I understand, too, that those who submit the largest number of coins are statistically likely to get the more higher graded coins (and more lower graded coins, etc.). It would be interesting to do an experiment in which you submit 100 coins of the same type to bulk, crack them out and resubmit them one at a time with coins of different types. Of course, you would need a second control group of 100 coins that is cracked and resubmitted again to bulk to cover the inherent grading inconsistency. >>
I think we can safely predict the results right now:
Several hundred dollars spent
1 month of time elapsed
No pattern whatsoever in the results
An argument over the meaning of the results
The board member charged with gathering and submitting the coins goes AWOL before returning the items
Mark Feld volunteers to mediate
3 posts of at least 100+ responses
4 members banned
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>
<< <i>"OTOH, based on what I have seen recently with the SAE Anniversary sets, the 70's are awarded largely to bulk submitters"
IMHO, simply because bulk submitters "largely" submit most of the coins to begin with. That said - some of the very best % grading results I heard about from the 3-pc gold sets were from collectors submitting outside the bulk process.
Wondercoin >>
Yes, I understand, too, that those who submit the largest number of coins are statistically likely to get the more higher graded coins (and more lower graded coins, etc.). It would be interesting to do an experiment in which you submit 100 coins of the same type to bulk, crack them out and resubmit them one at a time with coins of different types. Of course, you would need a second control group of 100 coins that is cracked and resubmitted again to bulk to cover the inherent grading inconsistency. >>
From my point of view that's all BS. If there was one coin out of the 100 or 10,000 that stood out above the rest then it should easily been recognized and the submiiter wouldn't need to send a bulk submission in hopes of getting that one 70 coin. Collectors, dealers and the TGS have left the window too narrow to distinguish a 70 coin from a 69 and it's nothing but a big fat lure for the TGS and dealers for the registry collector's money. Since there's not a significant difference in quality then it's a waste of money. Show me a coin that deserves the ultimate 70 grade that would amaze anyone's numismatic knowledge, then you'd have that one unique coin. Like all MS grades, they have been pounded to death with inferior coins and it take a true coin collector to sort it out, to locate that one substantial coin that stands above the rest before it enters his/her collection.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, I understand, too, that those who submit the largest number of coins are statistically likely to get the more higher graded coins (and more lower graded coins, etc.). It would be interesting to do an experiment in which you submit 100 coins of the same type to bulk, crack them out and resubmit them one at a time with coins of different types. Of course, you would need a second control group of 100 coins that is cracked and resubmitted again to bulk to cover the inherent grading inconsistency. >>
I think we can safely predict the results right now:
Several hundred dollars spent
1 month of time elapsed
No pattern whatsoever in the results
An argument over the meaning of the results
The board member charged with gathering and submitting the coins goes AWOL before returning the items
Mark Feld volunteers to mediate
3 posts of at least 100+ responses
4 members banned >>
I nominate Colonial Coin Union (John) for "Post Of The Year" for the above post.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>I've seen dozens of PCGS and NGC MS70 coins with little ticks on them here or there. If a grader has 1000 Silver eagles to grade, he is not going to spend several minuites on each one scanning it for marks. he will just look over it quickly then decide. In my opinion there is very little difference in quality between an MS69 and an MS70 coin, and for the most part, whether your coin come back as 70's or 69's is just luck >>
I have had a change of heart about the matter. I've recently received back both 69's and 70's and when I can get my emotions out of the way and really look at the coins I can almost always find something on the 69's. On the other hand looking close at the 70's I don't see any flies.
Edit: Took picture out to block out numbers, I'll have to photoshop it for use.
I usually look at submissions under a 3x loop to cull out any coins with imperfections. A couple months ago I submitted 2 gold buffalo proofs without doing so however--both came back 69s. When examining the coins I saw a double 'S' shaped notch on one of the two coins, just above the subjects' eyebrow, visible to the naked eye. I was suprised (but happy) that it didn't receive a 67 or lower rating!
I recenly got back a MS-70 of the gold Civil War $5 commmem. While I don't have a 10x loop (nor for that matter an electron microscope), for the life of me, I can't tell what's different about this coin in comparison with the 69s I own.
I guess that's why these guys are experts, huh.
<< <i>What's the best way to get a 70 grade? >>
Buy one on eBay.
Buy one on eBay. >>
Yup!
The best way to get your raw coin graded 70 is to start with several perfect coins. Lots of people have 69 quality coins with obvious but very minor defects and complain about not getting a 70 and they try to explain it as being unfair or something.
myCCset
<< <i>I've seen dozens of PCGS and NGC MS70 coins with little ticks on them here or there. If a grader has 1000 Silver eagles to grade, he is not going to spend several minuites on each one scanning it for marks. he will just look over it quickly then decide. In my opinion there is very little difference in quality between an MS69 and an MS70 coin, and for the most part, whether your coin come back as 70's or 69's is just luck >>
~I was of the understanding that if a coin has potential for a PR/MS-70 grade that there would be a consensus with an odd number of graders and not just one unbiased opinion?~
~Maybe for "Modern Crap" it's different?~
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Box of 20