For the people paying Ultra high premiums for 70s (from any TPG), what happens when we go to a 100 p

Hyperion · October 29, 2006 9:30AM

Leiana · October 29, 2006 9:30AM

Why would we go to a 100 point grading system?

-Amanda

StrikeOutXXX · October 29, 2006 9:33AM

If a 70 has to be "Perfect" today - wouldn't it qualify for a crossover at 100 in a new scheme?

It would be hard to say it's only a MS-97 because they found a flaw, when they certified it flawless with a 70 to begin with. Now, crossovers from other companies is a different story...

Hyperion · October 29, 2006 9:33AM

it's in the TPGs best interest, I guess that's where we'll see if the cart is pulling the horse or vice versa.
it's conjecture.

RegistryCoin · October 29, 2006 9:38AM

As in any grade, and for any purposes, it is best to get coins that are high-end for their prospective grade. That way if (big if, imho) a 100 point scale is adopted, one's coins would fall into the higher end of their particular grade's spectrum, should one desire reholdering.

BobaFett72 · October 29, 2006 9:39AM

will it happen in our lifetime... lol?

JRocco · October 29, 2006 9:40AM

Do you think that if enough people talk about a 100 point scale it will just become acceptable?????

how can I say this nicely.......................WRONG

roadrunner · October 29, 2006 9:42AM

There will be some sort of new system once the TPG's have fully abused and utilized the current one. Those high priced MS70's may not cross over to MS100. I think the TPG's would leave some room at the top as they ponder their new structure. MS99 and MS100 may be left open for a while. What a bummer if that MS70 coin now crosses to MS98 while the previous MS69's fall into MS97. The premium's would evaporate quite a bit.

roadrunner

ziggy29 · October 29, 2006 9:48AM

Talking about moderns, ultra-grade slabs and the 100 point grading system in one post. A trifecta!

If you could have worked AT/NT, wannabes, widgets and eBay scams into the title, you really would have nailed it!

Hyperion · October 29, 2006 9:49AM

<< Talking about moderns, ultra-grade slabs and the 100 point grading system in one post. A trifecta!

If you could have worked AT/NT, wannabes, widgets and eBay scams into the title, you really would have nailed it!

>>

I know a hat trick is a hat trick, but scoring 6 goals ? impossible !

airplanenut · October 29, 2006 9:55AM

<< If a 70 has to be "Perfect" today - wouldn't it qualify for a crossover at 100 in a new scheme?

It would be hard to say it's only a MS-97 because they found a flaw, when they certified it flawless with a 70 to begin with. Now, crossovers from other companies is a different story...

>>

"All 70s are perfect, but some 70s are more perfect than others" -Animal Farm

StrikeOutXXX · October 29, 2006 9:55AM

<< 

<< Talking about moderns, ultra-grade slabs and the 100 point grading system in one post. A trifecta!

If you could have worked AT/NT, wannabes, widgets and eBay scams into the title, you really would have nailed it!

>>

I know a hat trick is a hat trick, but scoring 6 goals ? impossible ! >>

Well, we can try.

Wannabe: Name of submitter now on slab
Widget: If population is over a certain amount, gets a frowny face
AT/NT - Everything slabs, they can another prefix if suspected AT - MS-87 AT?

I forget who said it, but if we can't agree on 70 points of grading, how will we agree on 100? It may be the only time I get a free upgrade though - my AG-3's could go AG-8 or whatever the AG range gets bumped up to.

CoinMaster1229 · October 29, 2006 9:59AM

70 point system is better. If they need to make a change, it would be better to add a decimal only after 69. example 69.1---69.2----69.3 and so on.

JRocco · October 29, 2006 10:09AM

This thread is being viewed by TPG company owners and employees..............they are reading every post - line by line - word by word - salivating at how foolish coin collectors are...................................

fcloud · October 29, 2006 10:14AM

The ms are the easy ones.

60 = 90
61 = 91
62 = 92
63 = 93
64 = 94
65 = 95
66 = 96
67 = 97
68 = 98
69 = 99
70 = 100

The other grades would do similar things. Not really a change in the grade, just a change in the system.

JRocco · October 29, 2006 10:19AM

<< The ms are the easy ones.

60 = 90
61 = 91
62 = 92
63 = 93
64 = 94
65 = 95
66 = 96
67 = 97
68 = 98
69 = 99
70 = 100

The other grades would do similar things. Not really a change in the grade, just a change in the system. >>

And a tremendous inflow of collector money to the TPG companies...............

StrikeOutXXX · October 29, 2006 10:33AM

<< The ms are the easy ones.

60 = 90
61 = 91
62 = 92
63 = 93
64 = 94
65 = 95
66 = 96
67 = 97
68 = 98
69 = 99
70 = 100

The other grades would do similar things. Not really a change in the grade, just a change in the system. >>

Actually, if you look at the percentage of each range of grades in a 70pt scale and convert that same percentage to 100 pt scale, it would look like below. Pretty scary.

P: 1
F: 2
AG: 3
G: 4-10
VG: 11-16
F: 17-27
VF: 28-56
EF: 57-70
AU: 71-84
MS: 85-100

bhartman35 · October 29, 2006 10:35AM

Aren't grading standards sufficiently nebulous with the current system? Do we really need a 100-point system??

Back in the day (late 70's, early 80's) the grading I remember was a lot easier. These 1-point gradations make me cross-eyed...

fcloud · October 29, 2006 11:27AM

Your assuming the amount of grades change. Only the numbers change. The question was asked on the Q&A and there will still be 11 MS and Proof grades. This is just a way for the third party graders to make more money reholdering stuff.

fcloud · October 29, 2006 11:31AM

Here is the link

RegistryCoin · October 29, 2006 11:35AM

A couple of things have been said by Homerun on the Q&A
The best of which acknowledges that the numismatic community isn't ready for it, or it isn't really necessary. The 11-point scale would be the most desireable to me, because it points to the fact that a 100 point scale is needless, and it would make reholdering unnecessary, even undesirable, therefore hopefully making the whole discussion moot.
(sorry for the duplication, fcloud)

michael · October 29, 2006 1:22PM

There will be some sort of new system once the TPG's have fully abused and utilized the current one. Those high priced MS70's may not cross over to MS100. I think the TPG's would leave some room at the top as they ponder their new structure. MS99 and MS100 may be left open for a while. What a bummer if that MS70 coin now crosses to MS98 while the previous MS69's fall into MS97. The premium's would evaporate quite a bit.

roadrunner

michael · October 29, 2006 1:25PM

"All 70s are perfect, but some 70s are more perfect than others" -Animal Farm

yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and with the 100 point system just around the corner!?! some will be 68 some 69 and maybe some 100

with regrades

Sunnywood · October 29, 2006 1:28PM

what happens when we go to a 100 point grading system

Obviously, the coins would immediately lose 30% of their value !!

I would be completely outraged if there were any attempt to switch to a 100-point grading system, for reasons which I have previously elucidated in various rants on this subject in the past. It would be enough to make me take a long hiatus from the hobby.

Best,
Sunnywood

MrEureka · October 29, 2006 1:45PM

what happens when we go to a 100 point grading system

Many things may happen but the coins will not change.

DMWJR · October 29, 2006 2:24PM

The 100 pt grading system is somewhat interesting, under the David Hall concept.

There would be no change as far as grading standards since you have 30 different grades in the current system, and 30 different grades in the new system. Therefore, grades just get new numbers, but there are no new grades, such as 82, 38, etc. So this would not really be a new grading system, but rather just a new numbering system. I believe most people think of a 100 point grading system as one that has more grade levels, thus allowing coins to be graded in the split-grade, like AU56, 65.5, 37, etc. The Hall system does not add any new grades.

There is one difference, and that is the relativity of the weights between grades, as it applies to ranking a registry set. For instance,

Let's say you have two coins currently graded MS70 and another in VF20. Under the current system, the VF carries 20 points on a 70 point scale, or 28.57%. So, if the coins were shifted equally to a 100 point scale and the 70 was now worth 100 points, the VF 20 should move proportionately to 28.57 points. It doesn't do that. It moves to 50 points. That means your VF20 just gained some ground.

So, the big winners in the Hall scale are the mid grade circs, from F12 to EF45.

pf70collector · October 29, 2006 9:20PM

Why would anybody want to cross an already graded 70 to the 100 point scale. Does not make sense to me.

Hugegut · October 29, 2006 10:17PM

I think assigning a single number to a coin doesn't make a lot of sense when there are multiple factors that make up the grade. I think that there should be a grade for each aspect that is looked at. For instance :
Wear - graded 1 to 10
Strike - graded 1 to 10
Surface - graded 1 to 10
Eye appeal - graded 1 to 10
The grade for a "70" coin would be something like PR10-10-10-10.
Maybe an ms69 would be something like MS10-09-10-10.

If I were buying a coin and saw that it was an MS10-7-8-7 it would tell me a WHOLE LOT MORE about the coin that just a simplistic MS66 or such.
If we are to change the system it should be one that improves our understanding of the coin in question. Moving to a 100 pt system does no such thing.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 29, 2006 10:31PM

This thread doesn't apply to me since I am not paying high premiums for PERFECT. If I wanted that, I'd take a mail order bride from russia

CaptHenway · October 29, 2006 10:42PM

That silly idea was shot down a year ago.

dorkkarl · October 29, 2006 10:44PM

<< For the people paying Ultra high premiums for 70s (from any TPG), what happens when we go to a 100 point grading system >>

since it ai'nt gonna happen, why worry about it?

K S

MrEureka · October 29, 2006 10:59PM

since it ai'nt gonna happen, why worry about it?

Although I believe that it will happen, I still see no reason to worry about it. Then again, I don't collect plastic.

Conder101 · October 30, 2006 1:56AM

<< I forget who said it, but if we can't agree on 70 points of grading, how will we agree on 100? >>

Well 100 years ago we couldn't agree on 5 points (Poor, Good, Fine, Extremely Fine, and Unc).

The answer was more points (Poor, Fair, Good, VF, XF, AU, Unc , and Gem Unc). But they still couldn't agree.

The answer, more points (Poor, Fair, AG, G, VG, F, VF, XF, AU, Unc, & Gem Unc)

Then they decided to add numbers and yet more points (Pr-1, Fr-2, AG-3, G-4, VG-8, VG-10, F-12, F-15, VF-20, VF-30, XF-40, XF-45, AU-50, MS-60, MS-65, & MS-70).

Then they added MS-63 and 67. Then 64. Then AU-53, 55, 58, MS-61, 62, 66, 68, 69.

At every step when people couldn't agree the answer has always been "More Grades!!" Not just change the names (or numbers on the grades) but MORE grades. If, no when, they go to the 100 point scale there WILL be more grades. Maybe not when they first make the change, but I would be practically certain they will leave the grades "spaced" so that more grades can be inserted between them later.

RegistryCoin · October 30, 2006 2:11AM

Great point Condor. I guess we should just take all the coins in the universe, put them on a continuum according to grade, assign each their own individual grade number, and be done with it. This way there would be nothing to argue about.

morgansforever · October 30, 2006 2:33AM

What will happen to all the SGS MS80 coins??

For the people paying Ultra high premiums for 70s (from any TPG), what happens when we go to a 100 p

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