What do you do when you disagree with a dealers' assigned grade ?
Hyperion
Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭
So, I visited a local place today, just to tool around and see what was there. Actually, had a few bucks in my pocket and was keeping my eye open for a lesser original trade dollar if I could find one. Anyway, as I was looking, I found myself really disagreeing with some of the assigned grades on a few of the pieces..some I would have been interested in, but it was a turnoff to see some of the grades on the pieces. (beyond that I saw a couple which I thought were definitely cleaned, too bright, or the color is just "off", that type of thing, but nothing attributed on the 2x2s) I decided to just keep browsing and keep my mouth shut, this guy is a LONG term pro and I dont think to compare my judgements vs his. I thought to ask him about his grading but I couldn't think of a tactful way to do it. If you encounter such a situation, how do you react ? I guess it depends on if you're really targeting the piece or not. Anyway, your thoughts?
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Russ, NCNE
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I pass.
If the coins are consistently overgraded and overpriced, I find another place to spend time.
roadrunner
experience rules in this hobby, Im happy to report im at the point where I walk away much much more often than I take a chance.
*sigh*
Now we all feel better!
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
And, even if you are so tactful that you are able to broach the topic and discuss it amiably, you have very little chance of getting the person to change their mind or come around to your way of thinking anyway.
So, its not worth the trouble.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
Price is the only thing I question at times. The other stuff the dealer has a right to his opinion and I do not question his opinion. Out loud anyway !!....
Ken
And if you make an price offer @ the proper lower grade that's the same thing as questioning their grading which in turn is a personal insult to their intelligence but for some reason they just seem to think you are a stingy tightwad & won't throw you out of their shop for it.
All the rest of us here were born knowing how to grade on par with PCGS & NGC and never ever got a bodybag because we have never ever bought a overgraded, cleaned or problem coin, not even from a mail order dealer in CoinWorld. Not never ever. Thanks for your honesty.
<< <i>Interesting thread, before I learned not to buy raw (remember I can't trust my grading abilities yet) every raw coin that I bought from dealers, I do mean to use the word EVERY here, were over graded or cleaned or can you believe my stupidity even corroded. I know this because I sent them all into to the big 3 grading companies and they either came back bbed or if I was lucky 2 or 3 points less in grading. I know what you are thinking what a dummy, but as embarrassing as it may sound its the truth. The dealers saw an idiot in me when I walked in. >>
The average new collector will spend a year or more learning to grade with any consistency. Those that shop for price at a given grade, will often end up with low end coins, even if buying certified. New collectors in general will often end up with low end, or problem coins. Those buying raw coins over $100 in value, best know their coins, because there is often a reason that those coins are raw, often those are problem coins. It sounds like that at least you learned your lessons relatively quickly, and hopefully inexpensively. Many collectors go several years without learning much, and have a much bigger tuition bill later.
For these reasons, I always tell new collectors to start small, buying inexpensive coins, until they have a basic grasp of grading and real market values. The tuition bill is usually much cheaper in the long run and the hobby much more enjoyable. The cliches of buy the best grade you can afford, and buy the keys first, are bad advice, even dangerous advice, for new collectors (good cliches for dealers looking to unload though).
1. The grade they put on a coin is less important than the price.
2. If you're not going try to buy the coin, you get nothing out of getting into an argument over grade or price.
3. If the dealer is consistently overgrading, and you have a consistant problem with it... get another dealer.
David
<< <i>I never argue grade with a dealer, only price.
Russ, NCNE >>
Bingo!
I don't care if the dealer calls it a MS63RD Lincoln and I think it is only a XF45 if the price is within the range of my agreement.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
NSDR - Life Member
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Since I am not a walking encyclopedia I routinely ask him what grade he assessed the coin at, if the thinks a coin has problem, including if he thinks the coin was cleaned, etc. In other words I trust his opinion. He has never come across as someone there only to make a buck.
In your case, I would have asked if a coin was cleaned if you were interested in it & see what his responce is.
Being that it's one of your local coin shops (hopefully not your only one), you have to have faith in what they're selling & whether or not they're honest.
If he tells you he has priced the coin low because he knew it was cleaned, then maybe you need to pick the coins you like, & before plopping any money down ask if they are cleaned.
I disagree with the 'who cares what the dealer is like, if the price is right' attitude.
Sooner or later, you'll buy a coin you thought was fine, but it wasn't.
Then you'll not only be agree with the dealer, but also yourself for ever going back.
If he takes offense to you asking, who cares, you won't be returning there anyway.
Been there-done that.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As far as other folks, If the price works, it doesnt matter what they grade it, I grade it myself and then go from there.
jim
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
~and if you think you really have influence, try ordering someone else's dog around~
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However, on some occasions I have asked a dealer about the grading standard in a non-threatening way.
For example, if I am looking at something that is graded (and priced) as VF and I think it is F, I have asked, "Hey, I'm still new at grading ________ . What are the key points for grading them, such as a full LIBERTY, or ________".
Usually I can figure out where the guy is coming from after their explanation. Sometimes they even say, "Usually you need to have this feature for a VF, but this coin is a strong F on the obverse and almost XF on the reverse, so I've netted it as VF" which at least establishes a basis for the grade.