Crusty Realie...1740 any experts out there? OT for US coins...but it is kinda slow right now.

WoodenJefferson · October 27, 2006 7:29AM

Kinda OT...but at least it's made from silver and now it resides in the U.S.! I got this a few years ago (really cheap) looks like the real thing, appears to have been under water for a long time, has those "conglomerate" hunks still imbedded in the surfaces. I don't even know what is considered the obverse/reverse on this 4 realie or where it was even minted. Any help would be appreciated...Thanks for you to allow this on U.S. Coin Forum

Leiana · October 27, 2006 7:37AM

Well, it is spelled 'real' firstly.

Secondly, look on the obverse (date side) and to the left and right of the date is an M with an O on top of it. That means it was made in Mexico City.

The reverse has the name Phillip V, for Felipe Quinto, Rey de Espana.

I do not know how to tell if it is real or not.

The Spanish name for the coin would be "cuatros reales."

-Amanda

Barndog · October 27, 2006 7:42AM

it is not as far OT as you would think, since Colonial and early America saw many, many "foreign" silver (and gold) coins used extensively in circulation.

WoodenJefferson · October 27, 2006 7:44AM

Thanks Amanda, learn something new everyday! Kinda looks like someone bit into the coin to test if it was real or not, maybe a "PIRATE" arrrrrg.

It seems to have the right weight, heifting, but alas...I don't have gram scale.

That's true barndog, never even considered that angle before posting. Just "tunnel visioned" on US minted coins I guess

Leiana · October 27, 2006 7:50AM

<< <i>Thanks Amanda, learn something new everyday! Kinda looks like someone bit into the coin to test if it was real or not, maybe a "PIRATE" arrrrrg. >>

Pirates are cool!

Here is the Wikipedia article about Philip V.

He was the first king of the Borbon dynasty in Spain. The Borbones got the throne after the War of Spanish Sucession versus the Hapsburg family after Charles II died.

-Amanda

RichieURich · October 27, 2006 8:33AM

Those of us in Pennsylvania are aware that the Pirates' season ended a few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, so did the Phillies' season.

"Really" neat coin, though!

TomB · October 27, 2006 9:29AM

Yours is a 4R, which is generally more scarce than the 8R, and as Amanda has told you it was minted in Mexico City. The initials MF on the reverse (side opposite the date) are for the assayer's initials and the MF is one of the two most common sets of initials along with MM. The four reales are quite cool since they are about the size of a half-dollar but are seen so much less frequently than the eight reales.

WoodenJefferson · October 27, 2006 9:42AM

Yours is a 4R, which is generally more scarce than the 8R, ...so TomB, how much is the value then? I paid....thinking aloud...hmmm, not more than $25.00 at a trade show, not a coin show, big difference. I just thought it was a neat item to add to my ever growing collection.

Now you have peaked my interest a bit?

TomB · October 27, 2006 9:45AM

I'm not an expert by any means on the value of these, but I paid about $100 for a perfectly original choice VF 1773 4R minted at the Potosi mint so I would think that $25 was fair enough for your piece.

WoodenJefferson · October 27, 2006 9:48AM

~Whew~ / ~rats~ all in the same breath...did not score a big hit then, good news that it's worth at least what I paid for it though. Thanks

PerryHall · October 27, 2006 9:46PM

It looks like a very crudely cast copy. Not sure how you could actually authenticate a coin in this condition.

CaptHenway · October 28, 2006 12:33AM

<< <i>It looks like a very crudely cast copy. Not sure how you could actually authenticate a coin in this condition. >>

Virtually impossible to be sure in this condition, but if the weight is about right (allowing for a 5-10% weight loss due to corrosion) and a specific gravity test indicates it is good silver, you could say that it is probably genuine and buy or sell it as such.
TD

WoodenJefferson · October 28, 2006 12:48AM

The "cuatros reales" as Amanda has stated could be a cast, I don't know, but both surfaces have traces of conglomerate (you know, the gunk that forms around silver coins that have sat on the bottom of salt water sea for a couple of hundred years) that appears to have been removed and stopped (don't they use electrolosis for this?) before the design was lost. The pitting is a series of shallow depressions like seen in ancient coins.

I did do a drop test for ring...close but not definative.

One day it needs to be authenticated, til then I can flip it since now I know which side is heads and which is tails.

numisma · October 28, 2006 12:57AM

Do a "ring test" on it. Balance it on either your finger and gently tap it with a pencil. Listen carefully for a high pitch ring. Let's know if you hear a ring or a thud. It just doesn't look right to me, but that could be because of the images.

WoodenJefferson · October 28, 2006 1:31AM

<< <i>Do a "ring test" on it. Balance it on either your finger and gently tap it with a pencil. Listen carefully for a high pitch ring. Let's know if you hear a ring or a thud. It just doesn't look right to me, but that could be because of the images. >>

Did what you suggested, it the real has that "lead crystal" wine glass ring to it...pretty! high C

numisma · October 28, 2006 1:38AM

That's a good sign!

Crusty Realie...1740 any experts out there? OT for US coins...but it is kinda slow right now.

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