With a Dirty Gold Coin™, how do you tell luster, surface quality, and coloration?
Longacre
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I own the following Dirty Gold Coin™ which I purchased from Doug Winter (for those of you who think that RYK buys every single example, a few slip through his paws). I was taking a look at Winter's new New Orleans Gold book (which is very good, by the way), and I am matching his descriptions with the coins that I own. For this particular date, Winter describes the luster, surface quality, and coloration as follows:
(1) Surfaces-- the surfaces are nearly always very heavily abraded with deep marks in the fields. A number show small mint-made fissures in the planchet. Many have rim bumps that are detracting. It is extremely hard to locate an 1843-O Large Date quarter eagle that has even average quality surfaces.
(2) Luster-- this issue has good luster. The texture is frosty with a slightly granular appearance. The typical specimen shows enough wear that not much of the original luster is intact.
(3) Coloration-- there are some higher graded uncleaned coins that have outstanding color. These show rich rose-gold or orange-green hues. The color is often deeper in hue at the borders than at the centers and this creates sort of a two-tone appearance that is very attractive. Many of the ciruclated pieces have been cleaned or dipped at one time and no longer show original color.
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Here is how the coin was described on his website when I purchased it:
"Repunched date and mintmark as seen on all examples. This is the single most original circulated example of this variety that we have seen with dark, dirty green-gold color on both the obverse and reverse. The underlying surfaces are clean and there appears to be a good amount of luster in the protected areas. The 1843-O Large Date is among the scarcest New Orleans quarter eagles and it is a very rare issue in Uncirculated. A perfect coin for the collector putting together a high grade circulated set of this interesting series. "
Here are my questions:
(1) If a coin is really dirty, like the one pictured below, how can you tell if the fields are heavily abraded. My coin does not look to be heavily abraded, but I am not sure if the crustiness helps to make those abrasions less noticable. By Winter saying "very heavy abrasions", I assume that they would be readily visible, even under the crust.
(2) For a dirty coin, it is difficult to get an idea of its luster. Although the pic below is not the greatest, it is hard to tell the luster and even in hand, it is difficult. Any thoughts?
(3) Color-- the coin in hand definitely has a green-gold look to it, but it does not look very orange-green to me. Does anyone have an example of a green gold coin and an orange green gold coin for comparison?
(1) Surfaces-- the surfaces are nearly always very heavily abraded with deep marks in the fields. A number show small mint-made fissures in the planchet. Many have rim bumps that are detracting. It is extremely hard to locate an 1843-O Large Date quarter eagle that has even average quality surfaces.
(2) Luster-- this issue has good luster. The texture is frosty with a slightly granular appearance. The typical specimen shows enough wear that not much of the original luster is intact.
(3) Coloration-- there are some higher graded uncleaned coins that have outstanding color. These show rich rose-gold or orange-green hues. The color is often deeper in hue at the borders than at the centers and this creates sort of a two-tone appearance that is very attractive. Many of the ciruclated pieces have been cleaned or dipped at one time and no longer show original color.
*************************
Here is how the coin was described on his website when I purchased it:
"Repunched date and mintmark as seen on all examples. This is the single most original circulated example of this variety that we have seen with dark, dirty green-gold color on both the obverse and reverse. The underlying surfaces are clean and there appears to be a good amount of luster in the protected areas. The 1843-O Large Date is among the scarcest New Orleans quarter eagles and it is a very rare issue in Uncirculated. A perfect coin for the collector putting together a high grade circulated set of this interesting series. "
Here are my questions:
(1) If a coin is really dirty, like the one pictured below, how can you tell if the fields are heavily abraded. My coin does not look to be heavily abraded, but I am not sure if the crustiness helps to make those abrasions less noticable. By Winter saying "very heavy abrasions", I assume that they would be readily visible, even under the crust.
(2) For a dirty coin, it is difficult to get an idea of its luster. Although the pic below is not the greatest, it is hard to tell the luster and even in hand, it is difficult. Any thoughts?
(3) Color-- the coin in hand definitely has a green-gold look to it, but it does not look very orange-green to me. Does anyone have an example of a green gold coin and an orange green gold coin for comparison?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
No suggestions but a really nice coin!
I wish it was Mine!
granpagraf
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On to your discussion. There were a lot of o-gold big color plates and descriptions in the book by Mr. Winter and I have noticed the following:
Abraded: He calls most of the N O $10's heavily or noticibly abraded it seems yet I just don't see any abrading that puts me off in the coins I have been looking at. Sure they are a little baggy and some are outright dinged but hell, they are a hundred and fifty years old and they were heavily used for commerce and that means bags moving around...sure, they are baggy. But they don't look that bad to me.
Surfaces: The surfaces are widely scattered in the N O $10 I have beenlooking at. It seems to be the same with the $5's with the exception of the old head...I think I'm gonna be a fool for her! So, a lot of range in the surfaces from polished, cleaned, scratched...many damaged coins moving around but there seem to be some very nice original pieces like you show below. They are out of my range for the pre '80 ones in ms but even the EF, AU coins look beautiful and warm, at least the ones with original surfaces. I really don't think that one can make a comprehensive statement about the surfaces on the coins available today...there is just too much range. Original surfaces, those are nice and worth a significant premium, at least to me they are. I'm noticing that N O gold has a look and now that I'm clued in, I'm gonna be lookin' at the surfaces with a lot more interest.
Coloration: I'm just not a fan of orange gold, kind of reminds me of toned morgans...just makes me itchy though no offence is intended nor offered to those that are fans, sorry, just my personal take on it. There doesn't seem to be too much orange gold N O, there is sure some yummy green gold in this issue, if you like green gold. I like green and I like lilac/pink/purpley down in the corners of the devices but hey...what we can buy and what we like are not always the same...green is nice, fine color and also it seems to be the most common coloration other than lighter or darker yellow gold that I'm seeing in what's offered. There is some occasional copper spots, it seems. I don't mind them unless they interfere with the devices...maybe a little one tucked up next to the rim or in a minor part of the field, like behind her head or something but the spots are just not something that I find distracting.
Luster: Yeah, that's an issue. I'm thinking that an au 53-58 should have some luster still inside the rim behind the stars, there should be some around her neck and in her tiara hiding in the letters...you should have some in a nice au coin. Full luster is out of my range for the dates I'm watching but there seems to be a pretty good range of au coins with some luster. I have to put a few of them in my hand to go any further and I will do that next week, the fever is building. Luster is part of what I suspect folk spend their money on. With the N O luster is an item, something to learn and study but the luster is nice and grainy and old and southern and man, I'm likin' it. The neat thing is the original coins have a very distinctive luster as best as I can tell...but luster is something here. The two toned experience that you refer to (I;m assuming the circular one) is also something to note. It is very conspicuous, almost distracting but certainly specific to the series from N O...yet another nice item to put a lot of bounce in the surface and a kind of an aura on the coin.
So, I'm Jonesing some...that auction had a lot of pieces in it. I'm sure there will be more reports later but for now, I'm just getting started and I look to those that have posted on their N O gold experiences and acquisitions as a student watches someone with more knowledge...Post ON!
Edited for: OH, I almost forgot
The color looks kindof rosy to me, out towards the edges especially. Winters says this issue exhibits die rust, and I think I am seeing some of that in the obverse portrait.
He also says these coins generally have average to low eye appeal, but that coin sure looks like a beautiful piece to me!
Nice date, too!
Thanks for sharing.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
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This one's pretty easy: if your coin looks like it has been shot by a shotgun loaded with birdshot, then it's heavily abraded. No amount of dirt can hide it (when viewed in hand, that is). As he says about your coin: "The underlying surfaces are clean."
(2) For a dirty coin, it is difficult to get an idea of its luster. Although the pic below is not the greatest, it is hard to tell the luster and even in hand, it is difficult. Any thoughts?
I think that when he speaks of luster, he's really speaking about the kind of luster than an uncirculated coin will show. As he says in his book: "The typical specimen shows enough wear that not much of the original luster is intact." And, as he said about your coin: "there appears to be a good amount of luster in the protected areas." You should be able to see the luster in the protected areas (between the letters, for example) when you rotate the coin under a light source. There's no way you can see that remaining luster in an image.
(3) Color-- the coin in hand definitely has a green-gold look to it, but it does not look very orange-green to me. Does anyone have an example of a green gold coin and an orange green gold coin for comparison?
Again, this is something that's best seen in-hand. I've been shown the differences in coloration and, at least to my eyes, it's not a strong color, but more of a "faint overtone". The best way to see it is to compare several coins: for example, a Philly coin of the same period side-by-side with a New Orleans coin. Then you can see that one is a different color than the other.
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An AU coin usually has little luster. This 43-0 $2-1/2 would have little luster as well. I've rarely run across coins so dirty I cannot assess all those attributes. Coins that dirty are usually in the lower circ grades where luster, coloration, and surface quality aren't as critical as on an AU/MS/PF coin.
roadrunner
I tilt a coin in different types of light to determine whether there are hairlines or other surface impairments.
Color is important as well and I understand that greenish color that you are referring to... I have an AU50 1843 $5 that is completely original with greenish color and it is nice and crusty, however, the lustre is not as evident which comes with the territory for coins like this. Perhaps this has not been too helpful but sometimes pictures work better than words
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