Need advice on Ebay buyer

Barry · October 24, 2006 8:56PM

I had an auction close on Ebay. In it, shipping is clearly stated as being $9.95 including insurance. This morning I get a Paypal payment, short about $4.00, with a note: I calculated USPS 1st Class Mail for 8 ounces to be $2.07 plus insurance to $152.00 ($3.35) = $5.42.

My first inclination is to refund the payment, telling him shipping/insurance was clearly stated as a flat fee. Recalculating is not an option. BTW, the guy's shipping address is his law firm.

What would you do?

PerryHall · October 24, 2006 9:02PM

The first thing I would do is to out him so that we can block him. He sounds like a royal pain in the ass.

drwstr123 · October 24, 2006 9:03PM

I've had it happen before the auction closed but not after. I'd send an invoice for the original amount. Follow up with contact if no response and state your terms, If no results, eat the difference or file NPB.

ABC123 · October 24, 2006 9:03PM

Inform him he is short. The $9.95 was shipping and handling.
Offer item to 2nd bidder or bite the bullet !

Steve27 · October 24, 2006 9:06PM

Return the payment, ask him to correct the amount, and tell him that shipping is more than just postage and insurance.

quarterguy · October 24, 2006 9:10PM

In your paypal account you can set it up where the buyer can NOT make any changes to your invoice. This is how I have handled it. They either pay or not pay.

These type of people are a pain. They try to change the terms after the fact. Not cool. Good luck.

zzzz · October 24, 2006 9:17PM

Refund his payPal payment.
Tell him he has been 86'ed from bidding on any of your auctions in the future.
S, H & I was stated in aucttion.
If he thinks the handling is excessive he does have the recourse of contacting ebay with a complaint (tell him where he can go find it or give him a link)

Teach him a lesson.

I don't care if he has a shipping address to the States Attourney Generals office ... $4.50 is not excessive for handling.

Don't let him intimidate you

Barndog · October 24, 2006 9:29PM

the bidder is a cheapskate loser, accept full payment or no payment. jphoya91 now blocked, thank you.

BAJJERFAN · October 24, 2006 9:31PM

So why does it cost $9.95 to ship a $150 item? Even tho the terms were clearly stated thats way too much for something of that value unless you are using priority mail which is about $2 extra. I would forget the handling crap and unless one is a business, an eBay seller need only recover actual cost of supplies and postage. it seems that you are dealing with someone who is an experienced shipper. I guess I'd probly eat the cost and block him. Maybe he will return it and you can deduct the $4 from his refund.

Jcarney · October 24, 2006 9:33PM

<< The first thing I would do is to out him so that we can block him. He sounds like a royal pain in the ass. >>

He did out him by linking the auction. jphoya91 is in my blocked list now.

Barry, I'd refund his money, send him an email calmly explaining why and then report him as a NPB.

slipgate · October 24, 2006 9:36PM

for $4.00, just ship it. He is wrong, but who cares. Block him from future auctions. This principle is not worth fighting for.

dantheman984 · October 24, 2006 9:37PM

Put him on my block list too. Takes nerve,
Dan

fivecents · October 24, 2006 9:40PM

Ask him nicely to send the rest of the S&H charges and you will send the coin. Otherwise you can refund his payment back to him.

zzzz · October 24, 2006 9:53PM

The S,H & I was clearly stated

If any thinks that it was too much yjey did have the option of NOT BIDDING

But for the "buyer" to change the invoice is WROING

Again, he didn't HAVE to bid

zzzz · October 24, 2006 10:02PM

<< So why does it cost $9.95 to ship a $150 item? >>

Who cares ... nobody Had to bid if they thought it was excessive

<< it seems that you are dealing with someone who is an experienced shipper. >>

No, just a cheapskate

IWhy is it the comcemsus of a few that it is OK for the seller to "EAT" the $4.50?

Get the item ready to ship then email him that it is now his responsibility to get the item to the post office.
He paid for Shipping and Insurance only not the handling to get it there.

jdsinva · October 24, 2006 10:17PM

Stand your ground, I don't agree with the S&H amount but it was clearly stated and if he didn't want to pay it, he was free to keep moving along. . .

DrWho · October 24, 2006 10:40PM

buyer's generally include the s/h/i in their final bid, as a total. dude knew the cost, bid with that in mind. hold him to the auction contract. it's a hassle for such a low cost item, but this dude is.......................anal.

Longacre · October 24, 2006 10:47PM

Technically you're right, and he is being difficult for no reason. Just in this instance, I would sell the coin, and eat the $4. However, I would block him as a bidder in the future. Your shipping fee was clear in your description and he should have taken that cost into consideration with his bid. Even though your shipping fee was $4 more than the actual cost, it is not like the package wrapped itself and drove itself to the post office. Your time and effort is worth $4.

How many times would you have to say "Which one is clearer-- A, or B.... A, or B...." in order to make $4.

VTCoins · October 24, 2006 10:51PM

1. Return his full PayPal payment.
2. Send him an email letting him know to pay the full amount.
3. Lower your shipping costs to a reasonable level.

notwilight · October 24, 2006 10:55PM

I would eat the $4 and ship it with a note that he had been blocked from bidding on your auctions and the auctions of all the coin dealers that you work with and know on the PCGS board. Ignore any further correspondence you get from him. It will drive a meticulously compulsive guy like him crazy. --Jerry

edited to add that I think your shipping costs are reasonable. However, as a seller you are getting a message here that some potential buyers don't.

SNMAN · October 24, 2006 10:57PM

<< 1. Return his full PayPal payment.
2. Send him an email letting him know to pay the full amount.
3. Lower your shipping costs to a reasonable level. >>

SNMAN

goose3 · October 24, 2006 11:05PM

deny or refund his payment with a note telling him that he cannot alter the terms after the listing.

change your paypal preferences not to let anyone edit invoices.

send him a new invoice.

if he fails to pay, file the NPB, and ultimately a Neg.

He is WRONG, PERIOD....and what a jackass to boot.

for those of you questioning Barry's shipping charges, that is not the issue here. leave it to a lawyer to try and alter a "contract" after the deal is done. I would not eat that 4.00 no matter what.

CarlWohlforth · October 24, 2006 11:05PM

If the item ended up selling for more than I hoped for I would eat the loss.

If the item ended up selling for less than expeted I wouldn't ship until the winning bidder met the terms of the auction.

BAJJERFAN · October 24, 2006 11:11PM

<< So why does it cost $9.95 to ship a $150 item? >>

Who cares ... nobody Had to bid if they thought it was excessive

//////////////////////

I believe I mentioned in my comment that the terms were made clear. as to who cares, many do because a seller does himself a disservice and loses bidders when his shipping fees are excessive. Obviously this bidder cares.

Flyfishguy · October 24, 2006 11:12PM

Both you and the buyer are wrong. The buyer has no right to adjust the price without your ok, and you need to adjust your S&H. When I see S&H like yours, I will pass on the auction. In my coin auctions I list 2 postage options, $2 for 1st class and $4.50 for Priority w/ tracking. I print my postage online through paypal so I still make about a buck (including bubble mailer cost) on 1st class and 45 cents on Priority.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 24, 2006 11:19PM

You don't need advice Barry.
The buyer would not receive his order until the seller receives payment in full. This is a simple fix, unless you are extending him credit or a discount. In spite of what he thinks you ought to get for shipping, it is not his choice to change the price of the auction and he is in violation, not you.

TEN BUCKS FOR SHIPPING ? He might have reason to believe it's too much, but it still does not authorize him to discount the final bill.

as for blocking the guy ? some people give stupid advice around here.

They wouldn't know how to negotiate their way out of a crowded bus.
You could be on a block list for your astronomical shipping charges, too.

Joe

ziggy29 · October 24, 2006 11:23PM

<< Stand your ground, I don't agree with the S&H amount but it was clearly stated and if he didn't want to pay it, he was free to keep moving along. . . >>

Agreed. The shipping seems borderline excessive to me, but it was clearly stated. I would either low-ball my bid to account for the high shipping charges or pass. What I wouldn't do is win the item and then whine about the terms I agreed to by bidding.

Bidder blocked.

As for what I'd do in the seller's situation, it depends on how much he wanted a fight and a potential feedback war over $4. Either return the payment and demand the full amount due or ship it, block the bidder and move on. Depends on how much one is itchin' for a fight.

segoja · October 24, 2006 11:28PM

I'd suggest you use his own calculations for shipping.....however, he did not really complete the calculations.

The additional added details (for the detail guy he is) are:

1)Let him know a contract is a contract and can't be renegotiated AFTER the deal has been inked (being a lawyer, he should know this)
2)Packaging $.35
3)Mileage to PO You have to figure this
4)Time to wrap, pack, fill-out the forms and drive to the PO at your hourly rate $x/hour

The look on the lawyers face when he realizes that $9.95 is not too bad a deal, priceless

segoja · October 24, 2006 11:29PM

BTW We need his ID to block. These buyers irritate me to no end! They should READ!

Barry · October 24, 2006 11:32PM

Thanks for all the comments. I did waht the majority suggested - refunded his Paypal payment, asked him for the correct amount, and if he didn't like it, I'd file an NPB and offer it to the next highest bidder.

For the few of you who thought my shipping was excessive, here's my rationale:

1. This is not a single coin. This is an 8 coin mint set in a pretty tri-fold folder. I usually ship these things in a sturdy (not bubble) mailer, such as a CD or 5 1/4 inch floppy mailer, with some cardboard backers, just in case the P.O tries to bend it anyway. These things don't grow on trees.

2. Insurance is already included in the shipping cost. I estimated it would close about $200, which is a bit higher than it closed, and costs more to insure.

3. I subscribe to "I don't care what your shipping costs are, I just figure the total price" school, when I bid on an item. Not long ago I bought a bluetooth to USB dongle on Ebay. I BINed it at 99 cents and paid $10 shipping. I knew what I was paying and I knew why the bidder did it that way. It's not my job to police Ebay and make sure they aren't losing a few cents in auction fees. That's their business and their problem, if they choose to address it.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 24, 2006 11:50PM

Thank you for responding again, Barry. I have a clearer view and do not think your shipping costs are high at all considering the item.

I still think BLOCKING bidders is a free choice, too. I just never do it. I mean he paid you all but four dollars. I had a guy purchase a roof one time , I had to do two thousand dollars worth of gutters (for free) if I wanted to put a metal roof on his house.
With this "BLOCKING" idea, I could have lost the whole gig telling him he was a cheapskate. LAWYER OR NOT !

garsmith · October 24, 2006 11:53PM

Ask the buyer to complete full payment on the item, if they don't pay for fixed price S/I tell them they will need to pick the coin up in person!

DMWJR · October 24, 2006 11:56PM

Personally, I would have just eaten it and blocked him instead of wasting any more effort on this loser.

Coin collectors are some of the cheapest people I know. While $9.99 SHI on a $150 item may be high in the world of coin collecting SHI, it is not unreasonable, nor is it out of line with the majority of other auctions on eBay. Just check out any other category, and see what average shipping is. Just like auction house buyer fees, SHI is always figured into the purchase price whether you make a conscious decision about it or not.

Ebay has an excessive shipping policy, which was clearly not violated in this instance:

Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fees to cover the costs for mailing, packaging, and handling the items they are selling. While eBay will not prescribe exactly what a seller may or may not charge, eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller’s shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive. Shipping and handling fees may not be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.

Sellers who want to be sure they are in compliance with this policy may charge actual shipping costs plus actual packaging materials cost (or less).

In addition to the final listing price, sellers are permitted to charge:

Actual Shipping cost: This is the actual cost (i.e. postage) for shipping the item.

Handling Fee: Actual packaging materials costs may be charged. A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.

Insurance: Sellers offering insurance may only charge the actual fee for insurance. No additional amount may be added, such as “self-insurance”. Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.

Tax: Only actual applicable federal, state, country, city, VAT, and equivalent taxes may be charged.

For cross border transactions, sellers may not collect tariffs and duties. However, buyers may be responsible for actual, applicable tariffs, and duties as requested by respective country laws.

dorkbar · October 24, 2006 11:59PM

The buyer doesn't set the terms. The buyer sees the terms and bids or does not bid.

Sounds like a typical attorney. It would give me greater than usual pleasure to make sure this loser didn't win this battle. I can't stand people who operate like this. Thinks he owns the world and makes up all the rules, and screw whoever is in the way.

The principle is very important. It's an a-hole flouting his a-holiness who needs to be shut down.

PerryHall · October 25, 2006 12:02AM

<< You could be on a block list for your astronomical shipping charges, too. >>

Please explain how we go about blocking a seller.

dorkbar · October 25, 2006 12:02AM

And furthermore: Why do people complain about shipping? Just bid less, and screw Fleecebay out of a few cents. Perfectly ethical, moral, and unfattening. Why is this looked down upon? A dollar is a dollar.

Boom · October 25, 2006 12:40AM

It's the potential buyers' duty to read the entire listing, including all terms.

By bidding they engage themselves in a binding contract indicating they have read and accept all terms.

Altering those terms is not acceptable to you, the seller.

Change your preferences to prevent any such future activity.

grabba · October 25, 2006 12:43AM

I think you did the right thing by refunding his money. I bet it isn't this guy's first time of trying to wiggle out of shipping and handling charges.

I had a recent auction that I bought two coins in two different auctions and the shipping charges were clearly stated on the auction. $4.00 + $1.00 for additional coins. I paid the $5.00. When I received the coins there was a dollar enclosed in the package and the seller wrote a note and said that he had made a mistake in the listing and it was supposed to be $3.00 + $1.00.

Needless to say, he gained my trust after that. Not many of those around.

WoodenJefferson · October 25, 2006 1:24AM

I did not go through all the responses, but it appears that your buyer go through cycles of buying, then selling, buying again, then selling. I was expecting to see some comments in his feedback for the same type of reaction your experiencing with an adjusted S&H, none there.

Looking at you auction ad, it clearly stated what the amount was going to be, hence that is what is required at the close of auction. I'd politly inform the buyer that he is by contract (since he is a lawyer) obligated to pay restitution (legal speak) in payment request and that the terms of that contract are non-negotiable. That outta fix'em...

You are playing in a wide open field on e-bay and you don't know who's going to run out there next!

Good luck.

BlindedByEgo · October 25, 2006 2:02AM

<< Personally, I would have just eaten it and blocked him instead of wasting any more effort on this loser.

Coin collectors are some of the cheapest people I know. While $9.99 SHI on a $150 item may be high in the world of coin collecting SHI, it is not unreasonable, nor is it out of line with the majority of other auctions on eBay. Just check out any other category, and see what average shipping is. Just like auction house buyer fees, SHI is always figured into the purchase price whether you make a conscious decision about it or not.

>>

My brother in law has a scrapbooking business - they are the worst on shipping, even cheaper that coin collectors

. They'll go to the mat on being charged for an extra ounce.

This situation is easy, Barry - and you handled it just right. If he doesn't want to follow through on the auction, you'll have the opportunity to relist and maybe get a better price.

I would have set fixed price shipping at $7.95, so I don't think you were far off.

Dog97 · October 25, 2006 2:41AM

I'm always harping about excessive shipping on here. But you know what? If I don't like it I either don't bid or I ask the seller about it BEFORE the auction ends because I know "your bid is a contract" and you have to abide by the TOS & all that stuff.
I wouldn't block him though, because if I blocked everybody that acted like a retard from my auctions then I wouldn't have any bidders left. When you block bidders that's blocking $$$ from your pocket! He's probably just doing his slimey lawyer thing; they do that just to see what they can get away with, it's second nature to them, and who knows, he may become one of your bestest customers after he sees that he can't push you around.

19Lyds · October 25, 2006 2:49AM

Please keep us informed on how the buyer responds to this situation.

lathmach · October 25, 2006 3:09AM

I always check out the sellers shipping costs.
If I feel it's excessive, I don't bid.
The sellers that think they're getting a little extra money by hiking the shipping charge, aren't very smart.
They'll never know how many buyers pass over them like myself, and keep their auctions from realizing the maximum amount of money.
On the items I sell, you pay for the padded envelope, the postage, and insurance, unless you specifically deny insurance.

Ray

BAJJERFAN · October 25, 2006 3:18AM

2)Packaging $.35
3)Mileage to PO You have to figure this
4)Time to wrap, pack, fill-out the forms and drive to the PO at your hourly rate $x/hour

....................

Thats kinda lame IMO. Maybe eBay should start a checkoff section where you can "donate" to a seller's vehicle maintenance fund, or a "wear and tear" on his computer fund.

TJM965 · October 25, 2006 4:27AM

Just bought a coin on Ebay for $50.29. Got whacked an extra dollar to insure the extra 29 cents.

19Lyds · October 25, 2006 4:30AM

Thats the Post Office, not the seller or Ebay.

From USPS.com

Fee . . . . . . . . Insurance Coverage
$1.35 ................ $0.01 to $50
$2.30 ................ $50.01 to $100
$3.35 ................ $100.01 to $200
$4.40 ................ $200.01 to $300
$5.45 ................ $300.01 to $400
$6.50 ................ $400.01 to $500

TJM965 · October 25, 2006 4:37AM

Yes, I know. But if it was lost , I'm sure either He or I would have eaten the 29 cents. Do you have to insure for exact amounts. Isn't $50 worth of insurance enough on this item?

StampAlarm · October 25, 2006 4:42AM

Fine. Send it to him ASAP.............without any packaging. NO BOX. Just stick the postage to the outside of the plastic holder.

Jerry

seateddime · October 25, 2006 10:56AM

if a shipping is clearly stated than it should be paid as stated

mozeppa · October 25, 2006 12:11PM

dang....i guess you time , effort , supplies are worth nothing!

ask him if he charges his customers a "preparation" fee!

p.s. not to mention the risk you take in traffic to get it to the post office!.....people like that piss me off!!

AZCoinDevil · October 25, 2006 12:31PM

Refuse his payment and let him know that the Terms and Conditions set forth in the Auction meet UCC standards for contracts and he accepted them when became a member in Ebay and when he made the bid , and now has two options

1) Pay the amount Including shipping , that was clearly stated in the Auction
2)Do not remit the correct amount and therefore violate the terms and condtions clearly set forth in the Auction at the risk of getting negative feedback on his rating. (expect the same)

That is all you can do except block him. Which i did . I dont need him.

If he is a lawyer he already knows he is wrong and just trying to beat you out of 4 bucks. Too bad. Dont cave.

Oh , I have been an Ebayer for 9 years and have seen them all. I also am a purchasing professional of high dollar capital equipment. Commercial Law was a major but I never wasted the time to go to law school ( I was accepted by 3), the profession is full of Idiots. Including relatives.

For the record 9.95 AINT that much shipping and handling.

AZcoinDevil.

Need advice on Ebay buyer

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