I like this quote from RYK in a thread started last year. (regarding TGP's)

numisma · October 24, 2006 1:49PM

In my ideal TPG company, the company would provide the following:
1. Authentication with a guarantee
2. Coin protection
3. Grade optional
4. Originality designation
5. A clear, scratch-resistent plastic holder that makes it easy to photography the coin
6. An optional photography service
7. No favors no matter how small/large the submitter

The only point that I would take issue with is #4 regarding originality, as that is a matter of opinion. I also lament the fact that encapsulation obscures the 3rd side of the coin (the edge for all of the 2D people out there). Great post by RYK from 2005.

RYK · October 24, 2006 1:58PM

Great, another RYK thread.

Thanks for the compliment

and sorry about the typo (photography in #5 should be photograph)

Leiana · October 24, 2006 2:00PM

If only it were that simple!

It reminds me of those Walgreens commercials.

I have tried to design a slab where you can see the edge, I haven't come up with anything earthshattering yet, but I haven't given up!

-Amanda

numisma · October 24, 2006 2:03PM

James from EarlyUS.com did come up with a great concept for an edge-view slab, but I cannot elaborate for legal reasons.

coinkat · October 24, 2006 9:47PM

RYK got it right... I might change the order alittle

Longacre · October 24, 2006 10:19PM

That RYK guy is one smart cookie.

ziggy29 · October 24, 2006 11:08PM

Nice list. I'd add optional attribution of varieties to the list, but beyond that, I think he mostly hit it.

keets · October 24, 2006 11:26PM

The only point that I would take issue with is #4 regarding originality, as that is a matter of opinion.

hard to imagine that you'd want to eliminate the "originality" designation because it's a matter of opinion but wouldn't be troubled by the GRADE being provided, perhaps the most distressing "opinion" offered by even the most highly respected grading service.

in my mind, NGC offers everything that's included in these 7 points with their NCS arm which offers encapsulation and an opinion on a coin, stating whether they feel it's genuine or not. after all, original is a synonym for genuine..............................though agreement with that opinion is a matter of, well, opinion.

numisma · October 25, 2006 12:14AM

hard to imagine that you'd want to eliminate the "originality" designation because it's a matter of opinion but wouldn't be troubled by the GRADE being provided, perhaps the most distressing "opinion" offered by even the most highly respected grading service.

Number 3 in his list is "grade optional", so I lump originality and grade in the same optional column. Authentication is a black and white thing, but grade and originality can be a gray area, imho.

Coxe · October 25, 2006 12:19AM

What spoils it is the fact that these also businesses. CU is public stock. A big part of that is making each quarter and continually improving earnings.

The best thing that could happen symbiotically is for varieties to take off in even bigger ways. I don't believe for a second there was any greater reason for the 100 point grading scale revision than to collect fees having coins pass through a second time. If the Mint does burn out of their overproduction of novelties, where else can they go? Certify another collector area like phonograph records? Sure, but it is best to stick with where you are proven and have a leadership edge. Variety scholarship has never been more intense and across so many series. In consideration of the collector demands and premiums based on varieties, they have simply got to enter this more deeply. The hobby needs professional and reliable authentication of varieties. This also would ramp up registires and we all know how good those are for TPGs. Varieties will take that much higher and coax more participation. But the bottom line is this would push coins back down the pipeline for yet another fee-based service. The problem, however, is staffing with the right people to be credible and minimize risks associated with the guarantees. The most knowledgeable people are not so easy to get into their employment. However, they already do have and can attract very capable numismatists who can acquire the additional attribution skills quickly enough. They do need to add more varieties to their attribution lists much sooner than later.

keets · October 25, 2006 12:29AM

i wouldn't presume to understand the list, RYK could better do that, but i assume the "grade optional" point to be one where the submitter could request just the authentication and no grading done/grade assigned. with the "originality" point, it seems that is one of the prime requisites of a grading company for RYK if you pay attention to what he posts regularly. my impression is that he'd like to be able to just have a coin determines as genuine and that's something NCS does well.

but i do agree with you, original is tough to discern. i know you like Bust Half Dollars and it's hard to tell originality with them. many which are presumed as original are actually cleaned and retoned examples since cleaning was a time honored practice of the late 19th Century and even into the early 20th century. the originality craze is actually a recent phenomenon from a mass collector standpoint, IMHO. if you remember a member by the ID of pmh1nic you might recall that he was a strident proponent of the fact that the only true way to know a coins genuine surface condition would be to know it's history. absent that, the best we can ever offer is our opinions and those are quite often skewedby time, the old cheater.

I like this quote from RYK in a thread started last year. (regarding TGP's)

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