PCI COINS in GREEN HOLDERS

bidask · October 19, 2006 11:17AM

The older ones. I heard they graded tougher then. Is it true? What is the history of PCI ?

braddick · October 19, 2006 11:22AM

Here's some decent info. for you

Connecticoin · October 19, 2006 11:33AM

Additional Useful Info

bidask · October 19, 2006 11:40AM

Thanks, that was really helpful!

Conder101 · October 19, 2006 12:08PM

PCI (Photo-Certified Coin Institute) Based In Chattanooga TN, this slabbing service was dealer owned by Chattanooga Coin Co. In Sept 2001 PCI was sold to Leslie Shade. In March 2002 PCI was sold again, this time to Brian Beardsley, a dealer from Orlando FL. While it actually seemed to have a reputation for consistent grading, it was never really been taken seriously by a majority of the numismatic community. Possibly because it also had a reputation for slightly overgrading as well. It has probably survived for two reasons. First it was one of, if not the first, company to slab "problem" coins. At that time the big three companies would not slab "problem" coins. ANACS would at least authenticate the coin and send it home with either a certificate or at least a written opinion, PCGS and NGC would not even look at them and just shipped them back. Keeping all the slabbing fees of course. Second, PCI slabbing was inexpensive. At the time the big three were charging $23 to $25 to slab a coin. In quantity, or by jumping through a few hoops, or by not caring if it took them till the next millennium to get it back to you, you might be able to get the cost down to $15. PCI charged $8 and slabbed everything that was genuine. Unfortunately since the latest sale the quality of the grading has apparently plummeted. Consensus in the marketplace seems to be that PCI is now ranking lower than ACG, a drop of from three to five places depending on who you are talking to. When HALLMARK went out of business PCI bought up their inventory and started using their slab style. There are thirteen types of PCI slabs.

1. Photoslab 3 X 4 inches. Coin is on the left and the photo on the right. The photo shows the obverse of the coin only with the grade in the lower right corner. The coin information is at the top left of the slab with the date and slab serial number on the top line the grade on the second line and the coin type on the third line. Used 1986 (Recently an 89 SAE was found in one of these!)

2. Same as 1 but the grade no longer appears on the photo. Not to be confused with #3. Used 1986-88.

3. Similar but the grade no longer appears on the photo and the coin information is now arranged as coin type on top line date and grade on line three. The slab serial number on the back of the slab at the bottom right. Used 1988-89.

4. Same but a barcode has been added on the back below the serial number. Used 1989-91

5. HALLMARK type slab. Green border on label. No more pictures. Other than the HALLMARK name being gone and the PCI logo they look just like HALLMARK slabs. These were used for problem free coins. Since PCI bought out HALLMARK’s supplies there is a chance that these might exist either with the HALLMARK name above the label or with the name ground off. Has anyone seen one? They might easily pass as a HALLMARK slab if you miss the PCI logo on the back. These have ten digit serial numbers and two “code groups” below the barcode. Used 1991 to late 1999 or early 2000.

6. Same but red border on label. This was used to indicate the coin had a "problem" such as cleaning, whizzing, damage, artificial toning etc. Same comment about HALLMARK as in PCI 5. Used 1991- late 99 or early 2000.

7. Same as PCI 5 but with the signature of a recognized expert on the series being slabbed written on the back label of the slab. This was the short lived PCI Signature series. It only operated for a month or two before several of the experts took out ads announcing their separation from PCI.

8. Same as PCI 5 but this time with a blue border. Originally tokens and non-US coins were slabbed in the blue bordered holders. Later the blue borders were dropped and all coins and tokens were placed in the green and red bordered holders only. Part of 1991 and maybe part of 92.

9. Similar to PCI 5 and 11 but serial number is fourteen digits and there is only a single “code group” below the barcode. Late 1999 or early 2000 - Sept 2001.

10. Similar to PCI 6 and 12. Red border, single “code group” below barcode, fourteen digit serial number. Late 1999 or early 2000 - Sept 2001.

11. Yet another green bordered slab like PCI 5 and 9. This one was issued during the Leslie Shade ownership. It differs from PCI 9 by having only nine digits in the serial number. September 2001 to March 2002.

12. Red border with nine digit serial number. Issued between Sept 2001 and March 2002, possibly later as well, see next.

13. Broad gold bordered label. This replaced the green bordered labeled slabs after the sale to Beardsley in March of 2002. It still unclear if these are to replace only the green slabs or both the green and red. I have heard reports that the PCI 11 continues, that a solid red bordered slab is the new “problem coin” slab, and that the red border has been discontinued. From the obviously damaged coins that have been seen in gold slabs that PCI has denied as being problem pieces when they were brought to their attention it looks like the last possibility is the correct one. March 2002 - Date.

grabba · October 19, 2006 12:17PM

Great info on this thread. Thanks.

Myqqy · October 19, 2006 5:51PM

7. Same as PCI 5 but with the signature of a recognized expert on the series being slabbed written on the back label of the slab. This was the short lived PCI Signature series. It only operated for a month or two before several of the experts took out ads announcing their separation from PCI.

I've seen a couple of cameo proof franklins in those holders with tomaska's signature- I'd love to have one of those, but I don't think they come around very often.....

Conder101 · October 19, 2006 10:42PM

The reason for the very short life of PCI 7 was because the experts learned that PCI was slabbing coins with their signatures on the label without bothering to send the coins to the experts for their examination. Buyers were being deceived into thinking that the coin and variety had been confirmed by a recognized authority on the series when they had just been looked at by the in house graders. This was not fair to the buyer and a potential chance to damage the reputation of the expert. So several of the experts got together and ran large ads in all of the coin publications announcing their complete seperation from PCI. After that happened PCI could no longer accept coins for the expert signature program and it died.

So it is quite possible that Tomaska never saw those coins with his signature that you are lusting after.

bidask · October 20, 2006 7:07AM

Q] At the St. Louis show I took a shot on a PCI 1885 s $ graded MS 65. It was one of those coins that you truly had to buy the coin and not the holder, as it was priced at $1000. After reviewing this info, it turns out the coin is in a green holder with 10 digit serial number on the back, so I am feeling a little better about the purchase. I think it is all there.

NumisOxide · October 20, 2006 7:13AM

Great thread and info Conder.

bidask · March 4, 2007 9:04AM

I am not really into Morgans but I see this coin in a dealer's case at last year St louis show and was really intrigued by it.

Thinking to myself that PCI is down on the list of respected TPG companies, I figure the price of the coin has to be discounted to the slab grade.

I ask the dealer what the price is and sure enough he discounts off CDN by 20% at the time. I bought the coin.

I have left it in the PCI holder but dug up this great thread. I believe it to be #5 as outlined by Condor 101 in this thread and I quote " HALLMARK type slab. Green border on label. No more pictures. Other than the HALLMARK name being gone and the pci logo they look just like HALLMARK slabs. These were used for problem free coins. Since pci bought out HALLMARK’s supplies there is a chance that these might exist either with the HALLMARK name above the label or with the name ground off. Has anyone seen one? They might easily pass as a HALLMARK slab if you miss the pci logo on the back. These have ten digit serial numbers and two “code groups” below the barcode. Used 1991 to late 1999 or early 2000." PS , those are not contact marks on the face of the coin.

mrearlygold · March 4, 2007 9:13AM

Hmm, I've got a couple hundred modern coins dating from between the 30's and 2006 in PCI holders that we are still trying to figure out what to do with.

I don't think the color of the pci holder has anything to do with anything.

bidask · March 4, 2007 9:17AM

<< <i>Hmm, I've got a couple hundred modern coins dating from between the 30's and 2006 in PCI holders that we are still trying to figure out what to do with.

I don't think the color of the pci holder has anything to do with anything. >>

I dunno, Condor 101 was a real researcher in this area.

Russ · March 4, 2007 9:23AM

<< <i>I don't think the color of the pci holder has anything to do with anything. >>

You are incorrect in that thinking. In the early days of PCI, they were very conservative - similar to the current grading standards at PCGS. At the time they used a green label with a 10 digit cert number. Most of those have now been picked over and the good stuff cracked out. But, if you can find a fresh group of these, you can nail some winners for cheap.

The green label 14 digit and nine digit holders are generally junk just as the gold labels are.

Russ, NCNE

ca0100000 · March 4, 2007 9:26AM

Looks like k6za lost his domain name.

New PCI Slabs- Note the font, especially the 6

Old PCI slab, note the dash between the date and mintmark and the 6

PCI Slab Labels and Serial Numbers- What they mean

Green Label, ten digit serial number- Very conservative grading, at all grades. These slabs with a PQ designation almost always upgrade a point at PCGS. All PCI slabs seem to be lumped together as far as price goes, so you can find some real steals on these slabs.

Green Label, fourteen digit serial number- Accurate grading up to MS65. Very liberal on MS66 and above. Again, great deals can be had on these, but stay away from MS66 and over.

Green Label, nine digit serial number- The serial numbers on PCI slabs went to nine digits when the ownership changed. Grading became atrocious, usually Morgans overgraded by at least two points, cleaned coins with no mention on the holder, and altered coins slabbed as genuine. Absolutely stay away from these slabs.

Gold Label, nine digit serial number- Same as above, atrocious grading.

PCI COINS in GREEN HOLDERS

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