Is cfkvd7 on ebay a shill?

BodyBag · October 13, 2006 11:39AM

And, if so, how do you report him? Does ebay care?

Shamika · October 13, 2006 11:42AM

Ebay shows nobody with the username cfkvd.

BodyBag · October 13, 2006 12:07PM

Its pretty obvious.

Leiana · October 13, 2006 12:12PM

<< Its pretty obvious. >>

Bid history

I don't really see how that's shilling, but I don't have much experience in these matters.

-Amanda

Shamika · October 13, 2006 12:19PM

cfkvd7 appears to be bidding on "scotsmanauctions" dutch auctions. Dutch shills can be a little more complacted, but it sure appears he's doing just that.

Shills can be reported to eBay and they usually investigate at some point. I do know some shill bidders have been banned, but it usually has to be even more obvious than in this case.

Shamika · October 13, 2006 12:22PM

Actually, upon reviewing Amanda's link of past/present bidding, this should be an easy shill for eBay to ID.

Report him and I'll bet he'll be gone in a week.

123cents · October 13, 2006 12:27PM

I looked on goofbay and it shows he won 29 coins from scotsmanauctions on Sep.17 and still no feedback. Something looks fishy here.

123cents · October 13, 2006 12:37PM

I think Scotmanauctions has some explaining to do.

Rickyroooo · October 13, 2006 12:49PM

Go to Ebays help screen, enter Shill bidding and it will give You the link to the form to report the offender. Hope they stop Him after You report it.

Shamika · October 13, 2006 1:10PM

REPORTED!
Cfkvd7 and scotsmanauctions are going down.

notwilight · October 13, 2006 1:41PM

Sorry but I don't see it. If you think everyone who has a favorite seller is a shill bidder then there are lots of guilty biders out there including me sometimes.

He bids low but sometimes wins. Unless you can show me where items he won are being relisted by Scottsman, then I'm not buying it.

--Jerry

19Lyds · October 13, 2006 3:04PM

Shill. And if not then a thorough investigation is required for this 0 feedback buyer that has purchased $9,780 on 12 NGC PF69 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006), $4,650 on 6 NGC MS70 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006) and $12,500 on 11 NGC PF70 UCameo $50 Gold Buffalo Coins (9/16/2006).

Thats $26,930 nearly a month ago, all on the same day, and no feedback?

Looks like this bidder is covering scotsmanauctions a$$.

Edited to add: scotsmanauction is not his favorite seller, he's his only seller which should raise the redflags. I hope Ebay investigates.

WoodenJefferson · October 13, 2006 3:22PM

BigBuffaloGuy · October 14, 2006 1:43AM

<< REPORTED!
Cfkvd7 and scotsmanauctions are going down.

>>

What is with some of you people here? Is there always a conspiracy behind everything? Anyone who has ever been to our store knows that we have an ebay cart that customers who come in the store can request to look at. Some of these people look at the lots, go home, and bid using their own ebay account. Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service.

One would hope that those who are anti-dealer here, or those who judge Scotsman based on their past experience with OTHER companies, at least give us a chance before libeling us in a public forum. Some of you people need to think before you act as your actions can unjustfully do people harm!

Shamika · October 14, 2006 2:18AM

<< What is with some of you people here? Is there always a conspiracy behind everything? >>

Then you won't mind explaining 19Lyds findings below.

<< Shill. And if not then a thorough investigation is required for this 0 feedback buyer that has purchased $9,780 on 12 NGC PF69 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006), $4,650 on 6 NGC MS70 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006) and $12,500 on 11 NGC PF70 UCameo $50 Gold Buffalo Coins (9/16/2006).

Thats $26,930 nearly a month ago, all on the same day, and no feedback?

Looks like this bidder is covering scotsmanauctions a$$.

Edited to add: scotsmanauction is not his favorite seller, he's his only seller which should raise the redflags. >>

While there might be an explanation for this pattern, but at face value it's a TEXT BOOK CASE OF SHILL BIDDING!

I'm not a conspiracy guy and I've NEVER reported an eBay shill in the 8+ years I've been an eBay member. But this is so obvious that I can't sit back and not point it out to eBay. If there's a rational explanation, cfkvd7 and scotsmanauctions should have nothing to hide.

Myqqy · October 14, 2006 2:23AM

Pass the popcorn!

BigBuffaloGuy · October 14, 2006 2:28AM

<< 

<< What is with some of you people here? Is there always a conspiracy behind everything? >>

Then you won't mind explaining 19Lyds findings below.

<< Shill. And if not then a thorough investigation is required for this 0 feedback buyer that has purchased $9,780 on 12 NGC PF69 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006), $4,650 on 6 NGC MS70 Gold Buffalos (9/16/2006) and $12,500 on 11 NGC PF70 UCameo $50 Gold Buffalo Coins (9/16/2006).

Thats $26,930 nearly a month ago, all on the same day, and no feedback?

Looks like this bidder is covering scotsmanauctions a$$.

Edited to add: scotsmanauction is not his favorite seller, he's his only seller which should raise the redflags. >>

While there might be an explanation for this pattern, on face value it's a TEXT BOOK CASE OF SHILL BIDDING!

I'm not a conspiracy guy and I've NEVER reported an eBay shill in the 8+ years I've been an eBay member. But this is so obvious that I can't sit back and not point it out to eBay. If there's a rational explanation, cfkvd7 and scotsmanauctions should have nothing to hide. >>

Did you read my post above? I already explained why. You can come to whatever conclusing you want to, and believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't make it true.

Shamika · October 14, 2006 2:32AM

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service. >>

I might be wrong, but I suspect eBay does not allow this practice since eBay has no way of determining if the bid is a shill or not.

<< You can come to whatever conclusing you want to, and believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't make it true. >>

In the end it really doesn't matter what I believe although I'm sure the seller and his company are legit. It's the bidding pattern that appears not to be legit.

WoodenJefferson · October 14, 2006 2:34AM

<< Pass the popcorn!

small or large...butter?

ldhair · October 14, 2006 2:37AM

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service.

>>

How does that work?

Shamika · October 14, 2006 2:39AM

<< How does that work? >>

Well, the seller sets up an alternate account and bids on his own auctions.

Hey, isn't that shill bidding?

BigBuffaloGuy · October 14, 2006 2:42AM

<< 

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service. >>

I might be wrong, but I suspect eBay does not allow this practice since eBay has no way of determining if the bid is a shill or not.

<< You can come to whatever conclusing you want to, and believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't make it true. >>

In the end it really doesn't matter what I believe although I'm sure the seller and his company are legit. It's the bidding pattern that appears not to be legit. >>

Well, we just started this in August and it seemed like a good idea at the time... If it turns out we did something wrong, we will immediately stop. But the auction business is based on trust, and squeezing $5 or $10 is not worth the reputation damage. Just so you know what I write is true, listen to what one of our live auction participants posted on the US Currency forum after a recent sale in reference to a lot he won for well under his maximum bid.

Sunday February 19, 2006 1:59 PM

I wrote: Based on your maximum, at least you know we run a clean book

His Response: True enough Mark. Frankly given my and other folks experience at various auction sites I was shocked - and delighted - at the hammer price. Very reassuring about the secret maximum bid" to say the least.

Thanks also for the explanation and I do appreciate the personal response to my comments...

Shamika · October 14, 2006 2:44AM

BigBuffaloGuy - Are you saying these are your auctions?

Shamika · October 14, 2006 2:46AM

BigBuffaloGuy - I have to run. But if these are your auctions, you might consider contacting eBay yourself and explain your position. Again, I suspect eBay will ask you to discontinue this practice even though your heart is in the right place.

BigBuffaloGuy · October 14, 2006 2:49AM

Thanks. It is good for us to know this information as if you came to the conclusion you did, others probably have as well. Yes, these are our listings, and apparently we need to have a company meeting to see if ebay items are only for ebay members, or should we allow walk-in customers bid as well.

Mark-

WoodenJefferson · October 14, 2006 2:54AM

Policy Guide
Shill Bidding

Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding.

buy-it-now...seems to be ok in this case, but it looks like e-bay frowns on actual auction items.

BigBuffaloGuy · October 14, 2006 2:58AM

It doesn't appear we violated this policy as the end buyer was, indeed, a customer that does not fall into one of those groups. I don't know, but it is obvious we are going to have to contact our rep at ebay and ask for some advice.

<< Policy Guide
Shill Bidding

Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding.

buy-it-now...seems to be ok in this case, but it looks like e-bay frowns on actual auction items. >>

WoodenJefferson · October 14, 2006 3:07AM

Can you let us know what you find out from e-bay rep in this matter...would be interesting/informative. Thanks

VTCoins · October 14, 2006 3:13AM

I see no reason why your walk-in customers shouldn't be able to bid on your auctions. But if they do not have an eBay account, you should have them set up their own account. Or have one of their friends do the bidding. You should not do the bidding yourself.

Russ · October 14, 2006 4:00AM

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service. >>

That's a nice service, but if eBay conducts an investigation and discovers that the bids came from the same IP address as your selling account, you will be NARU'd or, at the very least, warned. Guaranteed.

Russ, NCNE

Shamika · October 14, 2006 6:01AM

<< Policy Guide
Shill Bidding

Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item >>

<< It doesn't appear we violated this policy as the end buyer was, indeed, a customer... >>

From your perspective, this is true. But from eBay's perspective, an "employee of the seller" purchased the item since the employee used his own account.

Futhermore, eBay's use of the word "Community" likely means the "eBay community" and not the people walking into your store. Your store customers certainly "have a level of access to item information which is not available to the" eBay customers

19Lyds · October 14, 2006 4:57PM

Uh Oh! The Madone got suspended from Ebay for letting his buddy bid on his auctions from his laptop.

I cannot locate the link but it was IP address traceable so you've got some splainin' to do Lucy!

Bochiman · October 14, 2006 5:47PM

<< 

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service. >>

That's a nice service, but if eBay conducts an investigation and discovers that the bids came from the same IP address as your selling account, you will be NARU'd or, at the very least, warned. Guaranteed.

Russ, NCNE >>

Bingo! If this account is one of yours (ie....related to scotsmanauctions) then expect it AND the main selling account to go bye bye.
Even if the intent was ok, it will violate ebay's rules. Even if the rules aren't spelled out and black/white, they will investigate, see the relation (IP address, etc) and nuke them.

denga · October 15, 2006 7:05AM

BodyBag Friday October 13, 2006 6:39 PM

And, if so, how do you report him? Does ebay care?

••••••••••••••••

Probably a "coincidence," but both buyer and bidder are from Missouri.

Denga

denga · October 15, 2006 7:07AM

<< BodyBag Friday October 13, 2006 6:39 PM

And, if so, how do you report him? Does ebay care?

••••••••••••••••

Probably a "coincidence," but both buyer and bidder are from Missouri.

Denga >>

Whoops! I meant seller and bidder!! (Does not pay to post too quickly.)

BlindedByEgo · October 15, 2006 8:25AM

<< 

<< Others don't have an ebay account and ask that we bid on their behalf, and we are happy to provide that service. >>

That's a nice service, but if eBay conducts an investigation and discovers that the bids came from the same IP address as your selling account, you will be NARU'd or, at the very least, warned. Guaranteed.

Russ, NCNE >>

What he said.

If you look back in the archives you will see where legitimate sellers, including Legend, have been NARUed for less. It doesn't need to be intentional improper behaviour - in fact, Ebay has gotten so large that I don't believe that they care from intention.

When I first opened the thread, and read the bidding history of cfkvd7, my immediate reaction was "shill". While I know that there are detractors of the PCGS forum that believe the posse mentality causes overreaction, the good that comes from at least SOMEONE identifying and reporting scammers outweighs the complaining.

"Helping" customers access a dutch aution through an in-store access and related account because they have none may be a great business enhancement, but it creates several issues:

-Drives up the final values for the other buyers
-No accountability
-Creates misperception

If you want to sell to walk ins, why not just end the auction early, or reduce the quantity available?

19Lyds · October 15, 2006 9:10PM

Uh Oh Again...........scotsmanauctions is a power seller so there is a whole new set of rules in play here.

I normally do not run with posse's but I am inclined to believe this "walk in customer" stuff as quickly as MOC's "old dealer that didn't like toned Morgans" story! After all, exactly how many store owners, beit coins or otherwise, would actually make a customer wait a couple days to spend their $26,930?

LanLord · October 15, 2006 10:49PM

Why can't we all just get along?

Shamika · October 16, 2006 1:36AM

<< I normally do not run with posse's but I am inclined to believe this "walk in customer" stuff as quickly as MOC's "old dealer that didn't like toned Morgans" story! >>

Lee - I'm thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say it just yet.

WoodenJefferson · October 16, 2006 2:02AM

It's a tough job...but somebody's got to do it!

Connecticoin · October 16, 2006 2:22AM

<< 

<< I normally do not run with posse's but I am inclined to believe this "walk in customer" stuff as quickly as MOC's "old dealer that didn't like toned Morgans" story! >>

Lee - I'm thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say it just yet. >>

That's what it looks like to me. Hard to believe an Ebay powerseller with 6,500 transactions did not know what Ebay considers shill bidding, and I find it hard to believe that that many "walk-in" customers wanted Scotsman to bid on eBay for them.

Coxe · October 16, 2006 3:02AM

<< Even if the rules aren't spelled out and black/white, they will investigate, see the relation (IP address, etc) and nuke them. >>

It is trivially easy to have a different IP address. There are thousands upon thousands of http proxies (intentiona or inadvertant) on the internet that you can use to mask your IP. The truly resourceful people will never get caughtby ip address or cookies, ....

BigE · October 16, 2006 3:08AM

True, only lazy ignorant shills use the same IP address--------BigE

-----------BigE

19Lyds · October 16, 2006 4:29AM

Agree'd on the IP thing but what really bugs me is the number of bids by this user. You'd think if he was really into the bidding thing that he's by a friggin PC to see what else was out there!

I'm just not convinced that this is on the up and up essecially with the amount of money involved.

Something else, if scotsmanauctions was located in the store and an ebay account was setup for a "customer", why not leave feedback? Unless, of course, multiple customers were bidding with the same id?

Nah, Say it ain't so Joe! This in itself would limit the number of customers that could actually bid on the "dutch auctions" now wouldn't it?

Is that fish I smell?

dtkk49a · October 16, 2006 4:52AM

LOL

Is cfkvd7 on ebay a shill?

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