What Coin Rarity - If Heavily Promoted, Would Become Just as Popular as 1913 Liberty Nickels?

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:17AM

We all know that there are droves of coins that are much rarer than the 1913 Liberty Nickels. Many Patterns are as rare or rarer. However, they were not intended for circulation, but then again, neither were the Non-Steel Cents produced in 1943. So, which coin, given unlimited amounts of publicity, could achieve such legendary status as the 1913 Liberty Nickels?

shirohniichan · October 11, 2006 10:20AM

The PCGS MS70 2003 Lincoln?

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:21AM

<< The PCGS MS70 2003 Lincoln? >>

Um. Well. Hmm. Let's See. Yeahhhh. I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Although, I do respect your comments, thoughts, and opinions.

Leiana · October 11, 2006 10:23AM

I think it should be something with a good story associated with it. And, it should be something that someone might have a possibility of discovering another example of. That would get people searching, and excited. So probably a 20th century piece.

Beyond the 43 and 44 cents of the wrong composition, I really can't think of anything that would fit.

-Amanda

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:24AM

<< I think it should be something with a good story associated with it. And, it should be something that someone might have a possibility of discovering another example of. That would get people searching, and excited. So probably a 20th century piece.

Beyond the 43 and 44 cents of the wrong composition, I really can't think of anything that would fit.

-Amanda >>

Good stories don't always work with the public, but I heard from a little birdie that the work with the grading services. Da Dum Dum Ching.

I knew someone would post that so let's just get it out of the way and move along.

Coinosaurus · October 11, 2006 10:25AM

I don't think it is possible now. There is too much transparency and too many cynical coin collectors. Too many eyes into the mint activities, FOIAs, unprecedented levels of research into the national archives, etc. In short too many people that know too much.

Look at the Central America marketing - the hype machine was in overdrive, fueled by the best minds in the business. But what are these coins worth today?? Everyone knows how rare they are.

Another factor, re classic rarities, is that you can't reinvent history. I can't go back in time and create another Max Mehl to overpromote some esoteric issue. Mehl was able to overhype and create a certain consciousness about the 1913 - I don't think it would work today, everyone would think of him as just another shop at home guy (no disrespect to MM, who was a rather determined individual that would find another way to be successful).

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:30AM

<< I don't think it is possible now. There is too much transparency and too many cynical coin collectors. Too many eyes into the mint activities, FOIAs, unprecedented levels of research into the national archives, etc. In short too many people that know too much.

Look at the Central America marketing - the hype machine was in overdrive, fueled by the best minds in the business. But what are these coins worth today?? Everyone knows how rare they are.

Another factor, re classic rarities, is that you can't reinvent history. I can't go back in time and create another Max Mehl to overpromote some esoteric issue. Mehl was able to overhype and create a certain consciousness about the 1913 - I don't think it would work today, everyone would think of him as just another shop at home guy (no disrespect to MM, who was a rather determined individual that would find another way to be successful). >>

I would respectfully disagree with you regarding another rarity becoming insanely popular. The nickels had a great story and a nice provenance of owners, not to mention, a little Hawaii Five-O air time.

There was one missing for quite some time (oooh that got the commonfolk excited) but now that they are all accounted for and have passed hands a few times, there needs to be a new rarity to step up into the spotlight to get the hungry fortune seeking public off their couches. I believe one will come along.

IGWT · October 11, 2006 10:34AM

1867 5c PR w/o rays transitional reverse

coinguy1 · October 11, 2006 10:35AM

How about THE one and only true first struck, "first strike", Proof gold buffalo?

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:36AM

<< How about THE one and only true first struck, "first strike", Proof gold buffalo?

>>

Easy killer, I didn't see anything on CNN about this fantastic idea. The problem is, that would be only one. After that one was found, the public would stop looking and lose interest. That's a buzzkill for a well managed promotion.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 11, 2006 10:39AM

a mule is about the closest and that won't come close.
a 1958 Doubled die cent ?
nah... one of them 24K gold sackies that went up in the shuttle ?

maybe (only a dozen and in gold

)

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:41AM

<< a mule is about the closest and that won't come close.
a 1958 Doubled die cent ?
nah... one of them 24K gold sackies that went up in the shuttle ?

maybe (only a dozen and in gold

) >>

Now you might be on to something w/ that.

Leiana · October 11, 2006 10:42AM

Cheerios Sacagaweas?

-Amanda

clw54 · October 11, 2006 10:43AM

I swear, Brandon's posts could have been written by Anaconda. The style is very similar.

AmericanCopper · October 11, 2006 10:43AM

1876 CC Twenty-Cent piece??? All melted before release except perhaps 15 or 20 that were to be used for assay purposes. Walter Breen is given credit I believe, for "discovering" the largest hoard of these found to date. About a dozen pieces in a Baltimore hoard.

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:43AM

<< Cheerios Sacagaweas?

-Amanda >>

Please...Please... Only one type of supreme rarity per series thank you.

We've already voted on the solid gold sacs that went into outer space. Cool Story, Small Number, Not Confiscatable.

goose3 · October 11, 2006 10:44AM

the '74 aluminum lincoln.

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:44AM

<< I swear, Brandon's posts could have been written by Anaconda. The style is very similar. >>

Don't tell Brandon. He left his account logged in on my laptop when we were in Atlanta.

Coxe · October 11, 2006 10:44AM

1964 SMS coins are a first thought. Generally unknown to most collectors and excessively rare (though more than 5 set exist) compared to the potential demand.

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:46AM

<< 1964 SMS coins are a first thought. Generally unknown to most collectors and excessively rare (though more than 5 set exist) compared to the potential demand. >>

So what's the cool story behind them? Need the cool story.

Leiana · October 11, 2006 10:46AM

<< 

<< Cheerios Sacagaweas?

-Amanda >>

Please...Please... Only one type of supreme rarity per series thank you.

We've already voted on the solid gold sacs that went into outer space. Cool Story, Small Number, Not Confiscatable. >>

Yes, but have any of them ever appeared on the marketplace? Or does the government still have them all?

-Amanda

richardshipp · October 11, 2006 10:46AM

<< We all know that there are droves of coins that are much rarer than the 1913 Liberty Nickels. Many Patterns are as rare or rarer. However, they were not intended for circulation, but then again, neither were the Non-Steel Cents produced in 1943. So, which coin, given unlimited amounts of publicity, could achieve such legendary status as the 1913 Liberty Nickels? >>

I really don't know much as I'm just learning but I'm surprised to learn that there are "droves of coins" with known populations of 5 or less.

I get a feeling you've got the next "legendary status" coin in mind... care to share your thoughts?

Baley · October 11, 2006 10:47AM

how about the very last draped bust half dollar struck, that still survives, as determined by emmission sequence and die state?
you know, the very last one made, the day they changed out the dies and started striking the capped bust type..

that would be a real treasure!

thecointrader · October 11, 2006 10:47AM

How about 1995 19th Anniversary Reverse Proof Gold Double Eagles?

coinguy1 · October 11, 2006 10:49AM

How about the 1933 Saints? They've been the subject of great intrigue, mystery, scandal and tales for decades - now perhaps the coins will become available (legally).

tradedollarnut · October 11, 2006 10:50AM

1964 Peace Dollars - if declared legal by Congress.

Coxe · October 11, 2006 10:50AM

<< 

<< 1964 SMS coins are a first thought. Generally unknown to most collectors and excessively rare (though more than 5 set exist) compared to the potential demand. >>

So what's the cool story behind them? Need the cool story. >>

Well, how they got out of the Mint is unknown and probably scandalous. Were more myth than fact until several sets showed up at a show years later.

added > Sure, the 1964 Peace and 1974 aluminum cents are no-brainers if they are made legal to own and people can get them out of their cabinets.

cladking · October 11, 2006 10:51AM

There are several moderns that would be great candidates but the rules tend to
be a lot different with the moderns. For one, they tend to be much too rare to be
a candidate for promotion. Mintages of ten and less are simply too rare to promote.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the modern rarities tend to be widely dis-
persed. No one can own all of any of the rarities (with the exception of the sac/ states
mule) because they turned up one at a time.

Some of the more common moderns are promotable though. The '64 SMS coins have
populations of 18 to 30 which might make a good number. The '75 No-S proof dime
has about 15 known. The '65 silver quarters have about a dozen known where the
dimes are similar. Even some of the regular issues are pretty scarce in nice gem. Sev-
eral Ikes are fairly rare in choice gem. The nice thing about moderns is that while no
one owns multiple examples of a rarity unless he's done the leg-work and incurred the
expense to obtain that, most collectors might have one or another of them.

In the future there will be a lot more promotion of some of these. The only thing hold-
ing them bback is that there are still relatively few collectors of the regular series so no
one gets too excited about the rarities. As time goes on and there are more collectors
this will, no doubt, change.

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:51AM

<< how about the very last draped bust half dollar struck, that still survives, as determined by emmission sequence and die state?
you know, the very last one made, the day they changed out the dies and started striking the capped bust type..

that would be a real treasure! >>

1807's are pretty darn difficult but I would think that the very first example would be more desirable because it would have better eye appeal than a coin struck from heavily used dies. UNLESS, they only struck one coin with the very last pair of dies and documented it that way. Sheridan had a copper one-sided capped bust half that was struck using a lightly rusted die that apparently got a large crack during the hardening process so none were struck using that die. That was an insanely cool piece!

poorguy · October 11, 2006 10:54AM

<< 1964 Peace Dollars - if declared legal by Congress. >>

That's the one I was tinking about.

So Bruce, can I image the one you have?

clw54 · October 11, 2006 10:54AM

How about the 1870-S half dime? It wasn't even known to exist until the 1970s. Things like that are fascinating.

michael · October 11, 2006 10:56AM

any proof coin from the federal mint in philly dated 1834

any usa mint bullion non circulating legal tender graded proof/ms 70 by pcgs

Coxe · October 11, 2006 10:57AM

Also the 1864 Bronze proof IHC with L. Twenty made in a series that is heavily colelcted. I know it is appreciated by afficianados of IHCs and others but not to the tune anywhere close to a quarter of the price of a 1913 LHN.

MrEureka · October 11, 2006 11:01AM

A 1964 Franklin, if it really exists, would be a slam dunk.

coinguy1 · October 11, 2006 11:03AM

This coin, whatever it was: and what a story you'd have to go along with it

cladking · October 11, 2006 11:06AM

<< This coin, whatever it was: and what a story you'd have to go along with it

>>

Ya know, the answer to the riddle is in my sig-line and I'm in the car with the kids pretending
to gun for the dog so everyone will stop.

MrEureka · October 11, 2006 11:07AM

This coin, whatever it was: and what a story you'd have to go along with it

To promote the coin, I'd put a picture of it in all of my ads and change my business name to "Roadkill Rarities"...

lloydmincy · October 11, 2006 11:41AM

Pic any coin, and try to team up with some billionnaire that will pay anything to get his hands on one.

The 1943 Copper cents should not be any different than the 1944 steelies, but Henry Ford was willing to give an automobile for one. It may very well be FALSE, but if you shower the papers and media with ads that (pick a flambouyant rich dude) Richard Branson or Larry Ellison want "such and such coin", like the sag mules, for example - you have your 1913 Liberty following...

Many coins I feel are in the same catagory as the 1913 Liberty nickel, and their stories are just as interesting.

dragon · October 11, 2006 11:53AM

I've always thought the 1870-S $3.00 gold and the 1822 $5.00 gold were the two holy grail coins in US numismatics, and especially the 1870-S. I think the 1870-S $3.00 should bring 3-4 times what a 1913 nickel is worth because it's an ultimate rarity and has a great story to go along.

The only reason the 1913 nickels got so popular IMO is because of the mysterious cicumstances of their production and also because at one time nearly every street car operator in the country was checking every single nickel for a 1913 Liberty and the popularity of them never ceased.

StrikeOutXXX · October 11, 2006 11:55AM

How about some coins from the HMS Fantome when the legal wrangling finally gets sorted out and they bring them up? According to most accounts there are "Thousands of US coins" in the wreckage and:

"This could have a massive impact on the census of the early American coins (pre 1814). It could raise the census of such coins and bring forth new and previously unknown die varieties."

Hopefully 200 years in the ocean will have been kind to them.

Aegis3 · October 11, 2006 4:28PM

<< TThe '75 No-S proof dime has about 15 known. >>

I thought it was significantly more rare than that. How many times has an 1804 dollar been up at auction since 1975?

I think a case could be made for the 1854-S half eagle. First half eagle issue for the SF mint, you have the history of the gold rush to put behind it, and there are only two or three known, with one of them being in the Smithsonian.

TavernTreasures · October 11, 2006 7:00PM

I do not think this was mentioned. How about the Confederate half dollar?

fastrudy · October 11, 2006 7:12PM

The 1923-D merc dime.

Steve27 · October 11, 2006 9:26PM

The 33 Saint is already more popular than the 13 nickel, so it would have to be this coin I found in Denver:

agentjim007 · October 11, 2006 10:09PM

Any....people are sheep.

OKbustchaser · October 11, 2006 11:33PM

<< how about the very last draped bust half dollar struck, that still survives, as determined by emmission sequence and die state?
you know, the very last one made, the day they changed out the dies and started striking the capped bust type..

that would be a real treasure! >>

What is the number now, Baley? Is it still your discovery piece and two others?

<< 1807's are pretty darn difficult but I would think that the very first example would be more desirable because it would have better eye appeal than a coin struck from heavily used dies. UNLESS, they only struck one coin with the very last pair of dies and documented it that way. Sheridan had a copper one-sided capped bust half that was struck using a lightly rusted die that apparently got a large crack during the hardening process so none were struck using that die. That was an insanely cool piece! >>

Cool, start promoting the first capped bust halves. That way I can play, too! I don't know if (nor does anyone else) my small stars 1807 was the first one struck, but it did come early from the first die set used.

RWB · October 11, 2006 11:53PM

As Amanda commented, it is the ability to produce (concoct, devise, fabricate, create, synthesize, invent, and dramatize...) a good story that is most important. Absolute rarity is a very distant second. The story has to include mystery, dishonesty, famous people, money and be understandable by non-collectors. Also, if the coin is unique or only 2 or 3 are known, then there are not enough of them to keep the story before the media. Conversely, if there are too many around, such as 1927-D $20 or 1895-P dollars, it becomes difficult to associate one story with so many coins.

The MCMVII EHR double eagles are a good example, as are 1804 dollars, 1894-S dimes and 1913 nickels.

FYI – For the short time span I’ve researched (1905-1923) in detail, plus some other items, it appears that about 1/3 of the “standard” stories include substantial inaccuracies – and most of these seem to lean toward making the story more mysterious and salacious.

fivecents · October 12, 2006 12:12AM

The 2000 24 Karat gold "outerspace"SAC 1$. Now if the US goverment would only release them to the open market.

cladking · October 12, 2006 12:23AM

<< 

<< TThe '75 No-S proof dime has about 15 known. >>

I thought it was significantly more rare than that. How many times has an 1804 dollar been up at auction since 1975?
>>

This was the number that was suggested back when it was first discovered and
it does look like it might be pretty optimistic. If memory serves they had actually
accounted for only a few and extrapolated this over the entire production. Per-
haps no more were found.

A thread not too long back found no one who had actually seen one and only a
few who had seen pictures.

slumlord98 · October 12, 2006 5:35AM

<< What is the number now, Baley? Is it still your discovery piece and two others? >>

Still at three, and the Peterson/Meyer coin may be sold in the near future.

Baley, is your 115 a later state of reverse B, later than described in Overton for 07 103a?

<< Cool, start promoting the first capped bust halves. That way I can play, too! I don't know if (nor does anyone else) my small stars 1807 was the first one struck, but it did come early from the first die set used. >>

Herrman lists a "Proof" 113 sold in 1989, so that may have you beat on early die state, OKB.

What Coin Rarity - If Heavily Promoted, Would Become Just as Popular as 1913 Liberty Nickels?

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