-- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response.
In the future, if PCGS should make an error in your favor, based on the official response here, it may be best to shutupaboutit.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box?
<< <i>What type of mechanical error? Is the response policy - we don't make mistakes like that? Was and if so why was a 1904 tag placed on a 1901 coin? >>
Mechanical error is PCGS speak for a clerical error or typographical error. The term mechanical error never made much sense to me.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>In the future, if PCGS should make an error in your favor, based on the official response here, it may be best to shutupaboutit.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box? >>
<< <i>In the future, if PCGS should make an error in your favor, based on the official response here, it may be best to shutupaboutit.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box? >>
I didn't see how that a photo could establish much? So I'm wondering if PCGS' position is he sent in a 1901 coin?
<< <i>I didn't see how that a photo could establish much? So I'm wondering if PCGS' position is he sent in a 1901 coin? >>
I would think since Ron called it a mechanical error, that he is saying it is the right coin, but an error with the slab. <That's how I'm reading it anyhow>
I've never sent anything in myself to PCGS, but is there someone who opens the packages and makes sure the coins match the paperwork sent in before it gets to the grading stage? I thought I have read threads where customer service (some other entity) have called submitters when the paperwork is wrong before?
<< <i>-- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
Best post of this thread so far!
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
<< <i>-- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
I am really surprised by the response from PCGS. I read nothing that remotely deserved such a strong stance. I think perhaps some people piled on the OP's original comments but he certainly didn't at all. In fact, I think the OP was very nice and I am not sure I would be a big enough guy to take a shot like that on a public forum by PCGS and not respond in kind. Dennis however took the shot and high road by going even further in apoligizing and editing his post. Yet, I see no such action from the poster of the most shocking post and accusation on this whole thread.
I have edited my original post to correct what was was a very poor choice of words in the last sentence, although I had no idea it was a poor choice at the time. I have also added an explaination for the edit.
Let me publicly state that I hold PCGS in the highest regard in the numismatic industry, period. >>
<< <i>Dennis summed it all up for me.
Everyone:
I have edited my original post to correct what was was a very poor choice of words, although I had no idea it was a poor choice at the time.
Let me publicly state that I hold PCGS in the highest regard in the numismatic industry, period.
Jonathan >>
nice to see that everyone is toeing the party line! rofl >>
<< -- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
I am really surprised by the response from PCGS. I read nothing that remotely deserved such a strong stance. I think perhaps some people piled on the OP's original comments but he certainly didn't at all. In fact, I think the OP was very nice and I am not sure I would be a big enough guy to take a shot like that on a public forum by PCGS and not respond in kind. Dennis however took the shot and high road by going even further in apoligizing and editing his post. Yet, I see no such action from the poster of the most shocking post and accusation on this whole thread.
<< <i>One of my buddies recently bought a 1904 Liberty $2.5 for little more than bullion price and sent it to PCGS for grading. He figured it was MS-something, although from his description of the fields, marks and lustre it sounds like it was at least a 62. Here's a picture of what he got back:
A call to PCGS resulted in the opinion that "a mistake like that couldn't have happened, so the coin is yours", but my buddy asked me to take it down there for them to hang on to until the real owner either figures out he has the wrong coin, or PCGS determines where the error happened.
Stay tuned.
Edited to change an unfortunate choice of words in the last sentence ("switch") to a more accurate representation of what I meant to say in the first place ("error"). There is no dark meaning or message to this thread for people to infer or create in their minds, nor was any such thing intended; I was simply pointing out an amusing and extremely rare situation that I fully expect to eventually be straightened out. My apologies to anyone who got the wrong impression. >>
That's brings up a couple of questions I have. As someone who recently purchased a GAE set, I am considering joining PCGS to have my set graded.
======================================================================================== First Question My concern is: How do I know that what I send in to PCGS is going to be the same thing "graded of course" that I get back? I don't mean to imply anything here, (so please do not flame me) it is just a concern of mine.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?" A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
==================================================================== My second question would be: The people grading the coins - Are they coin dealers themselves? ====================================================================
And finally, does the situation in the previous post occur very often? How could you submit one item and get something different back?
I guess this means that if I join PCGS, I probably should make a copy of the submission form before sending it in. ====================================================================
Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions!
SoundPoint New Forum Member who is new to the grading experience.
One more question - I still haven't quite figured out why one grading service is better than another?? - especially since grading is based on subjective opinions.
<<First Question My concern is: How do I know that what I send in to PCGS is going to be the same thing "graded of course" that I get back?>>
You will have to trust them and their procedures, as other submitters have done and continue to do. Keep in mind that their reputation is extremely important to them and that it is in their best interest to maintain it.
<<My second question would be: The people grading the coins - Are they coin dealers themselves?>>
Most graders were and/or are coin dealers
<<Finally, does the situation in the previous post occur very often?>>
We don't know that anything has occurred other than that the date on the grading label is incorrect. Apparently the submitter is convinced he got back a different coin than the one he submitted. He might or might not be correct.
<<How could you submit one item and get something different back?>>
That woud require a mix-up or intentional act on the part of someone at PCGS. I believe that the latter is a near impossibility and that the former is extremely unlikely.
<<I guess this means that if I join PCGS, I probably should make a copy of the submission form before sending it in. >>
Submitters typically keep a copy of the submission invoice. But, if you send something through the mail that still does not prove you submitted what is written on the invoice.
<<One more question - I still haven't quite figured out why one grading service is better than another?? - especially since grading is based on subjective opinions>>
To some, more conservative is "better"; to others, more consistent is "better". To others (often submitters of coins), more liberal is "better". It depends upon your perspective and your priorities.
To try to lighten things up a bit -- I've always thought those liberty quarter eagles were cute little things, and whatever the date, this is quite an attractive one!
One thing neat about this series is its amazingly long time span -- think of all that happened in the world during this period!!!
<< <i>Grading Fee: $30 Call to Customer Service: $0.25 Gasoline to and from Newport Beach: $25 Helping out a fellow coin buddy, maintaining one's integrity, and effectuating a hyper-sensitive response from lurking prez: priceless >>
I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?" A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business.
They way I see it, there are a number of places this could have gone wrong within PCGS. Assuming the grade was not an issue, I see 4 possible scenarios.
1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. 2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. 3) If the submission form said 1901 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught this? - This would be the "only mechanical error" scenario. 4) If the submission form said 1901 and a 1904 coin was sent in, then where's the 1904 coin??? - This would be the PCGS REALLY missed the mark scenario.
It would be beneficial for the original poster to verify what was written on the original invoice. We would then be able to eliminate at least two of the above options. The way I see it, if the original submission form said it was a 1904 coin, PCGS has a lot of explaining to do. Neither of those scenarios play out well for PCGS. If the form said 1901, we may never know what really happened, but it could just be a mechanical error.
"t would be beneficial for the original poster to verify what was written on the original invoice. We would then be able to eliminate at least two of the above options. The way I see it, if the original submission form said it was a 1904 coin, PCGS has a lot of explaining to do. Neither of those scenarios play out well for PCGS. If the form said 1901, we may never know what really happened, but it could just be a mechanical error. "
I have the yellow copy of the original submitter's grading submission form here with the coin, ready to go down to PCGS. It very clearly says 1904.
Given the new information, I'll elaborate my possible scenarios.
<< <i>1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< <i>2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, unless you have another explanation.
<<Given the new information, I'll elaborate my possible scenarios.
<< 1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< 2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, you have another explanation. >>
It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error".
<< <i>It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error". >>
This is much more than a mechanical error, well maybe a "complex mechanical error". If 4 graders looked at this coin and no one caught it, that's more than a simple data entry error which I would then term as a "simple mechanical error". I would have to question how well the graders actually looked at the coin if 4 professionals missed it. I would think Ron should be much more concerned with this scenario rather than a simple data entry error. Data entry mistakes happen, just take a look at my typing sometimes . But an error where this gets through their whole system without getting caught is a major blunder by a highly recognized organization.
Go away on a business trip three days and the world falls in on Dennis.
I have read this entire thread. I know Dennis well, and have found him to be an individual of high character. I was pretty impressed with the photograph which, if not an altered image, clearly indicates a PCGS error of some sort. The label shows 1904, the coin shows 1901. Without getting into a debate/argument/discussion on the merits of Dennis' original post, which I did not see in the original form, I am stupefied at the response of the PCGS president. Threatening banishment when the photographic evidence is irrefutable is severe is it not? The wrong coin is in this holder. Fact. Dennis pointed out the fact. Where's the banishment offense? Have we, as a society, moved to ths point where any discourse that dis-satisfies individuals in power results in effective elimination of those who offer speech that the powerful dislike? Read Slaughterhouse 5. Review Tianmenn (sp?) Square's history. Look at many examples of individuals expressing opinions that offend the powerful.
I fear for my grandchildren.
Rick
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?" A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that.
Ron Guth President PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins www.CoinFacts.com
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?" A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that. >>
I respect him for changing his wording after your response...
<< <i><<Given the new information, I'll elaborate my possible scenarios.
<< 1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< 2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, you have another explanation. >>
It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error". >>
Mark,
You're exactly right. In my opinion, this was a mechanical error, in which everyone from receiving to shipping missed the error. Embarassing to be sure.
Ron Guth President PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins www.CoinFacts.com
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?" A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that. >>
I respect him for changing his wording after your response... >>
Me, too.
Ron Guth President PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins www.CoinFacts.com
Seems it wouldn't be a bad idea to have individual cameras sitting over the people/packages as the coins are unwrapped after receiving.
Open the package, show the security camera (or just a video camera on a tripod) the coin(s) as they come out, speak aloud the day/time/sender's name/what is written on the form and verify each coin/MM as they come out, and then that removes so many potential problems like this one.
Seems it would be good on many levels.....(yes, it would also be a royal PITA and no one likes to feel their integrity is questioned, but bank teller's and others handling large sums of money are frequently under watch at all times (casinos, etc).
coinking, what is the liability on PCGS on something like this? If the submission form said 1904 and it made it all the way through the system saying 1904 and went out the door saying 1904, wouldn't thr burdon of proof be on you to prove that a 1901 coin was sent in? I would think going through the entire process would be accepted in a court of law as acceptance of a 1904 coin whether or not a 1904 coin was submitted. When you return a 1901 coin in a 1904 holder, I would think the burdon of proof would fall heavily on you to prove something else happened.
When the word "switched" was used I did not take that to mean that PCGS did something consciously and unethically. I am very suprised that some did in this case (one poster in particular).
Of course, not unlike a number of other scenarios that are posted to this forum where assumptions are made and accusations fly without due cause and/or all the facts.
<< <i>This is much more than a mechanical error, well maybe a "complex mechanical error". If 4 graders looked at this coin and no one caught it, that's more than a simple data entry error which I would then term as a "simple mechanical error". I would have to question how well the graders actually looked at the coin if 4 professionals missed it. I would think Ron should be much more concerned with this scenario rather than a simple data entry error. Data entry mistakes happen, just take a look at my typing sometimes . But an error where this gets through their whole system without getting caught is a major blunder by a highly recognized organization. >>
Seems pretty easily understood to me. Graders do exactly that: grade the coin- their job is not to verify that the data entry is correct.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
Exactly. Recieving gets the coins, types the information from the submission form into the computer, and gets a barcode sticker which is put on the flip. The grader gets the flip, scans the barcode, grades the coin and enters his grade. Returns the coin to the flip and to the box. Repeats for the next coin. There is a good chance the grader never looks at what the coin is supposed to be, he may not even have any way to know what it is supposed to be. (I haven't watched their videos so I don't know if the graders have a monitor there that pops up with the submission data when they scan the barcode.) So if it gets entered wrong at receiving there is a good chance that no one will catch it until the final quality control check after it is slabbed. If QC misses it then out it goes.
It would seem the professional thing for PCGS to do would be to attempt to contact the other affected party as soon as this was brought to their attention. The response Dennis received on the phone -- one of denial and abdication of responsibility -- is somewhat shocking. I would have expected something along the lines of, "Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We'll try contacting customers that could have received your coin by mistake, and here are a couple grading vouchers for your trouble."
<< <i>Seems it wouldn't be a bad idea to have individual cameras sitting over the people/packages as the coins are unwrapped after receiving.
Open the package, show the security camera (or just a video camera on a tripod) the coin(s) as they come out, speak aloud the day/time/sender's name/what is written on the form and verify each coin/MM as they come out, and then that removes so many potential problems like this one.
Seems it would be good on many levels.....(yes, it would also be a royal PITA and no one likes to feel their integrity is questioned, but bank teller's and others handling large sums of money are frequently under watch at all times (casinos, etc). >>
I simply can't imagine that they aren't being taped. When I was back in college I worked at a Jiffy Lube and we were taped all day long. I can't tell you how many times those tapes saved us from expensive allegations made by our customers (i.e. "You guys didn't put oil back in my car and it broke down", then the tape shows we did fill it). It would seem that PCGS has a lot more to lose then an oil shop. Therefore, I expect that they do tape things. I hope I'm not wrong!
<< <i>It would seem the professional thing for PCGS to do would be to attempt to contact the other affected party as soon as this was brought to their attention. The response Dennis received on the phone -- one of denial and abdication of responsibility -- is somewhat shocking. I would have expected something along the lines of, "Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We'll try contacting customers that could have received your coin by mistake, and here are a couple grading vouchers for your trouble." >>
But their contention is that the coin returned is the coin sent in. The OP obviously disagrees, but Mr. Guth believes that the coin was an 1901 all along and was mislabelled a 1904 throughout the process.
"From Time to Time the Tree of Liberty Must be Refreshed with the Blood of Patriots and of Tyrants"
Wow, Having only read the edited posts in this thread I can't say I whether I would have a different impression from the original wording or not, but the reply from PCGS seemed extremely harsh to me. A threat of banning just seems in poor taste to me in reply to someone calmly explaining a problem and wondering about correcting the error. I can understand the guarding of a company's reputation, but to do so with teeth bared when no threat is actually being made is baffling to me.
As to the nature of the error, I find to very hard to assume that a person would not know the date of their own coin, especially one they got a good deal on, but even if the date had been wrong on the submission sheet and the coin was 1901 I find it equally amazing that the coin would be labeled as a 1904.
I hope we get to see this sorted out, peacfully might I add.
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Comments
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box?
<< <i>What type of mechanical error?
Is the response policy - we don't make mistakes like that?
Was and if so why was a 1904 tag placed on a 1901 coin? >>
Mechanical error is PCGS speak for a clerical error or typographical error. The term mechanical error never made much sense to me.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>In the future, if PCGS should make an error in your favor, based on the official response here, it may be best to shutupaboutit.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box? >>
<< <i>In the future, if PCGS should make an error in your favor, based on the official response here, it may be best to shutupaboutit.
For those who say that you photo a coin before you send it in, how does this help? How can PCGS or anyone else know that the coin you photographed is actually the one you (allegedly) sent in the box? >>
I didn't see how that a photo could establish much? So I'm wondering if PCGS' position is he sent in a 1901 coin?
<< <i>I didn't see how that a photo could establish much? So I'm wondering if PCGS' position is he sent in a 1901 coin? >>
I would think since Ron called it a mechanical error, that he is saying it is the right coin, but an error with the slab. <That's how I'm reading it anyhow>
I've never sent anything in myself to PCGS, but is there someone who opens the packages and makes sure the coins match the paperwork sent in before it gets to the grading stage? I thought I have read threads where customer service (some other entity) have called submitters when the paperwork is wrong before?
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>-- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
Best post of this thread so far!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>-- "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
I am really surprised by the response from PCGS. I read nothing that remotely deserved such a strong stance. I think perhaps some people piled on the OP's original comments but he certainly didn't at all. In fact, I think the OP was very nice and I am not sure I would be a big enough guy to take a shot like that on a public forum by PCGS and not respond in kind. Dennis however took the shot and high road by going even further in apoligizing and editing his post. Yet, I see no such action from the poster of the most shocking post and accusation on this whole thread.
Swest
<< <i>
<< <i>Everyone:
I have edited my original post to correct what was was a very poor choice of words in the last sentence, although I had no idea it was a poor choice at the time. I have also added an explaination for the edit.
Let me publicly state that I hold PCGS in the highest regard in the numismatic industry, period. >>
<< <i>Dennis summed it all up for me.
Everyone:
I have edited my original post to correct what was was a very poor choice of words, although I had no idea it was a poor choice at the time.
Let me publicly state that I hold PCGS in the highest regard in the numismatic industry, period.
Jonathan >>
nice to see that everyone is toeing the party line! rofl >>
Wow. I didn't read the OP to say anything other than that PCGS made an innocent mistake, that a customer service representative either didn't understand or appreciate the potential problem, and that Dennis wanted to make sure that no one was hurt as a result. I certainly didn't take away anything negative about PCGS until I read this response. >>
I am really surprised by the response from PCGS. I read nothing that remotely deserved such a strong stance. I think perhaps some people piled on the OP's original comments but he certainly didn't at all. In fact, I think the OP was very nice and I am not sure I would be a big enough guy to take a shot like that on a public forum by PCGS and not respond in kind. Dennis however took the shot and high road by going even further in apoligizing and editing his post. Yet, I see no such action from the poster of the most shocking post and accusation on this whole thread.
Swest
Next time I get extra cash in change, I am going to walk away or else I might not get to do business with them again
Pass.
<< <i>One of my buddies recently bought a 1904 Liberty $2.5 for little more than bullion price and sent it to PCGS for grading. He figured it was MS-something, although from his description of the fields, marks and lustre it sounds like it was at least a 62. Here's a picture of what he got back:
A call to PCGS resulted in the opinion that "a mistake like that couldn't have happened, so the coin is yours", but my buddy asked me to take it down there for them to hang on to until the real owner either figures out he has the wrong coin, or PCGS determines where the error happened.
Stay tuned.
Edited to change an unfortunate choice of words in the last sentence ("switch") to a more accurate representation of what I meant to say in the first place ("error"). There is no dark meaning or message to this thread for people to infer or create in their minds, nor was any such thing intended; I was simply pointing out an amusing and extremely rare situation that I fully expect to eventually be straightened out. My apologies to anyone who got the wrong impression. >>
That's brings up a couple of questions I have. As someone who recently purchased a GAE set,
I am considering joining PCGS to have my set graded.
========================================================================================
First Question
My concern is: How do I know that what I send in to PCGS is going to be the same thing "graded of course" that I get back?
I don't mean to imply anything here, (so please do not flame me) it is just a concern of mine.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?"
A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility.
As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our
reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security
team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible
security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
====================================================================
My second question would be: The people grading the coins - Are they coin dealers themselves?
====================================================================
And finally, does the situation in the previous post occur very often?
How could you submit one item and get something different back?
I guess this means that if I join PCGS, I probably should make a copy
of the submission form before sending it in.
====================================================================
Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions!
SoundPoint
New Forum Member who is new to the grading experience.
One more question - I still haven't quite figured out why one grading service
is better than another?? - especially since grading is based on subjective opinions.
My concern is: How do I know that what I send in to PCGS is going to be the same thing "graded of course" that I get back?>>
You will have to trust them and their procedures, as other submitters have done and continue to do. Keep in mind that their reputation is extremely important to them and that it is in their best interest to maintain it.
<<My second question would be: The people grading the coins - Are they coin dealers themselves?>>
Most graders were and/or are coin dealers
<<Finally, does the situation in the previous post occur very often?>>
We don't know that anything has occurred other than that the date on the grading label is incorrect. Apparently the submitter is convinced he got back a different coin than the one he submitted. He might or might not be correct.
<<How could you submit one item and get something different back?>>
That woud require a mix-up or intentional act on the part of someone at PCGS. I believe that the latter is a near impossibility and that the former is extremely unlikely.
<<I guess this means that if I join PCGS, I probably should make a copy of the submission form before sending it in. >>
Submitters typically keep a copy of the submission invoice. But, if you send something through the mail that still does not prove you submitted what is written on the invoice.
<<One more question - I still haven't quite figured out why one grading service
is better than another?? - especially since grading is based on subjective opinions>>
To some, more conservative is "better"; to others, more consistent is "better". To others (often submitters of coins), more liberal is "better". It depends upon your perspective and your priorities.
If I had ripped a MS $2 1/2 for "little more than bullion price", I would damn sure know/remember what the date was.
To even suggest that he made a mistake and forgot the date of the coin he had in hand is border line silly.
Edited to add: sounds like he got a double rip
One thing neat about this series is its amazingly long time span -- think of all that happened in the world during this period!!!
<< <i>Was going to renew to send in some 20th anniv. sets. This reminded me of why I don't submit anymore.
Pass. >>
you got that right...once again the ball is dropped.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
<< <i>Grading Fee: $30
Call to Customer Service: $0.25
Gasoline to and from Newport Beach: $25
Helping out a fellow coin buddy, maintaining one's integrity, and effectuating a hyper-sensitive response from lurking prez: priceless >>
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
was a rough place. In this place, one risks the loss of ones
reproductive organs.
Camelot
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?"
A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business.
1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario.
2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario.
3) If the submission form said 1901 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught this? - This would be the "only mechanical error" scenario.
4) If the submission form said 1901 and a 1904 coin was sent in, then where's the 1904 coin??? - This would be the PCGS REALLY missed the mark scenario.
It would be beneficial for the original poster to verify what was written on the original invoice. We would then be able to eliminate at least two of the above options. The way I see it, if the original submission form said it was a 1904 coin, PCGS has a lot of explaining to do. Neither of those scenarios play out well for PCGS. If the form said 1901, we may never know what really happened, but it could just be a mechanical error.
it was off to pcgs today for the following coins...
I might be mad they won't do my cheerios sacky but I got introduced to a shovel
thanks to kaelasdad
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I have the yellow copy of the original submitter's grading submission form here with the coin, ready to go down to PCGS. It very clearly says 1904.
<< <i>1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< <i>2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, unless you have another explanation.
<< 1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< 2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, you have another explanation. >>
It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error".
<< <i>It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error". >>
This is much more than a mechanical error, well maybe a "complex mechanical error". If 4 graders looked at this coin and no one caught it, that's more than a simple data entry error which I would then term as a "simple mechanical error". I would have to question how well the graders actually looked at the coin if 4 professionals missed it. I would think Ron should be much more concerned with this scenario rather than a simple data entry error. Data entry mistakes happen, just take a look at my typing sometimes
I have read this entire thread. I know Dennis well, and have found him to be an individual of high character. I was pretty impressed with the photograph which, if not an altered image, clearly indicates a PCGS error of some sort. The label shows 1904, the coin shows 1901. Without getting into a debate/argument/discussion on the merits of Dennis' original post, which I did not see in the original form, I am stupefied at the response of the PCGS president. Threatening banishment when the photographic evidence is irrefutable is severe is it not? The wrong coin is in this holder. Fact. Dennis pointed out the fact. Where's the banishment offense? Have we, as a society, moved to ths point where any discourse that dis-satisfies individuals in power results in effective elimination of those who offer speech that the powerful dislike? Read Slaughterhouse 5. Review Tianmenn (sp?) Square's history. Look at many examples of individuals expressing opinions that offend the powerful.
I fear for my grandchildren.
Rick
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?"
A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that.
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?"
A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that. >>
I respect him for changing his wording after your response...
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
<< <i><<Given the new information, I'll elaborate my possible scenarios.
<< 1) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1901 coin was sent in, shouldn't someone within PCGS have caught that? Then at QC, shouldn't this mechanical error have been caught? - This would be the PCGS missed the mark on so many different levels scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, why wasn't it caught in receiving? Why wasn't it caught by a grader out of the 3 that look at a coin? Why wasn't it caught by the finalizer/QC?
<< 2) If the submission form said 1904 and a 1904 coin was sent in, where's the 1904 coin and where did the 1901 coin come from? - This would be the PCGS has some explaining to do scenario. >>
If this scenario happened, where's the 1904 coin? Where did the 1901 coin come from? (yeah, I know I said those already, but what can I add without getting banned?)
Ron, would you PLEASE care to respond to this? It sounds like more than a mechanical error happened here. If you swear that a coin cannot get mixed up with another, then one of the two above situations had to have happened. That is, of course, you have another explanation. >>
It doesn't necessarily sound to me as if "more than a mechanical error happened here". It appears quite possible that one or more people failed to notice and/or change the (different) date in the data base, resulting in what PCGS calls a "mechanical error". >>
Mark,
You're exactly right. In my opinion, this was a mechanical error, in which everyone from receiving to shipping missed the error. Embarassing to be sure.
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm looking at this objectively and going to comment as such. DennisH used the term "switched" in his original post. Intentional or not, it's out there. Mr. Guth, the President of PCGS, sees this term used, in a public forum, used in connection with his company and get's "pissed". He stated: "This was a mechanical error, plain and simple. For you to make the leap directly to coins being switched is a surprising stretch, considering that there are several equally plausible explanations, all of which lack the dark implications that your conclusion implies." and also stated: "I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum and I'm really close to banning you for this one."
This ones pretty easy for me to figure out.
On PCGS FAQ website, the question is asked "Q: Is there the possibility of my coin getting switched?"
A: No. PCGS does not buy or sell coins and we do not carry any inventory at our facility. As a publicly traded corporation, such unethical activity would be damaging to our reputation and would be treated with the highest level of reprimand. Our security team keeps a close watch on our grading facility and has put in place every possible security measure to ensure the safety of your items.
Mr. Guth is taking ownership for his company and the people who work for PCGS. I do the same thing with my employer and train those under me to do the same. Respect it, and do the job like, you own it. Not a hard concept to understand.
I will not tolerate baseless accusations on this forum
Alot of this has been going on and the powers that be are tightening up on it. If you don't get on board with that; "See Ya".
Heres the other part of the equation. It is appropriate to have all your facts together then make comments positive and negative. You should not be banned for this. Any company should be receptive to improving their processes when a valid negative has been shown to have occured. That's the only way to get better and stay on top in any business. >>
Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that. >>
I respect him for changing his wording after your response... >>
Me, too.
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
Standing and applauding...well spoken Coin King!
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Open the package, show the security camera (or just a video camera on a tripod) the coin(s) as they come out, speak aloud the day/time/sender's name/what is written on the form and verify each coin/MM as they come out, and then that removes so many potential problems like this one.
Seems it would be good on many levels.....(yes, it would also be a royal PITA and no one likes to feel their integrity is questioned, but bank teller's and others handling large sums of money are frequently under watch at all times (casinos, etc).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Lee,
Well said!
To his credit, Dennis changed the wording of his sentence to a more palatable form and I respect him for that. >>
<< <i>I respect him for changing his wording after your response... >>
<< <i>Me, too. >>
And much joy was felt by all.
When the word "switched" was used I did not take that to mean that PCGS did something consciously and unethically. I am very suprised that some did in this case (one poster in particular).
Of course, not unlike a number of other scenarios that are posted to this forum where assumptions are made and accusations fly without due cause and/or all the facts.
Joe.
<< <i>This is much more than a mechanical error, well maybe a "complex mechanical error". If 4 graders looked at this coin and no one caught it, that's more than a simple data entry error which I would then term as a "simple mechanical error". I would have to question how well the graders actually looked at the coin if 4 professionals missed it. I would think Ron should be much more concerned with this scenario rather than a simple data entry error. Data entry mistakes happen, just take a look at my typing sometimes
Seems pretty easily understood to me. Graders do exactly that: grade the coin- their job is not to verify that the data entry is correct.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Seems it wouldn't be a bad idea to have individual cameras sitting over the people/packages as the coins are unwrapped after receiving.
Open the package, show the security camera (or just a video camera on a tripod) the coin(s) as they come out, speak aloud the day/time/sender's name/what is written on the form and verify each coin/MM as they come out, and then that removes so many potential problems like this one.
Seems it would be good on many levels.....(yes, it would also be a royal PITA and no one likes to feel their integrity is questioned, but bank teller's and others handling large sums of money are frequently under watch at all times (casinos, etc). >>
I simply can't imagine that they aren't being taped. When I was back in college I worked at a Jiffy Lube and we were taped all day long. I can't tell you how many times those tapes saved us from expensive allegations made by our customers (i.e. "You guys didn't put oil back in my car and it broke down", then the tape shows we did fill it). It would seem that PCGS has a lot more to lose then an oil shop. Therefore, I expect that they do tape things. I hope I'm not wrong!
<< <i>It would seem the professional thing for PCGS to do would be to attempt to contact the other affected party as soon as this was brought to their attention. The response Dennis received on the phone -- one of denial and abdication of responsibility -- is somewhat shocking. I would have expected something along the lines of, "Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We'll try contacting customers that could have received your coin by mistake, and here are a couple grading vouchers for your trouble." >>
But their contention is that the coin returned is the coin sent in. The OP obviously disagrees, but Mr. Guth believes that the coin was an 1901 all along and was mislabelled a 1904 throughout the process.
--Thomas Jefferson
Having only read the edited posts in this thread I can't say I whether I would have a different impression from the original wording or not, but the reply from PCGS seemed extremely harsh to me.
A threat of banning just seems in poor taste to me in reply to someone calmly explaining a problem and wondering about correcting the error.
I can understand the guarding of a company's reputation, but to do so with teeth bared when no threat is actually being made is baffling to me.
As to the nature of the error, I find to very hard to assume that a person would not know the date of their own coin, especially one they got a good deal on, but even if the date had been wrong on the submission sheet and the coin was 1901 I find it equally amazing that the coin would be labeled as a 1904.
I hope we get to see this sorted out, peacfully might I add.
Cheers, Jessie L.
<< <i>100 >>
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor