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New Columbian Expo So-called Dollars
tmot99
Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
Here are a few new purchases. Photos courtesy of the mad one.
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Jim
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
Nice SC$s.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>Why are these medals in slabs? >>
<< <i>So-called dollars that nice are truly impressive. I'm glad to see they are being slabbed as it should protect them for the future. >>
Enough said. Also, when it comes time to sell, they sell for more money, the rarity is somewhat traceable via pop reports, and they are guaranteed genuine.
I still don't understand what it takes to get above a 62 for some of the white-metal and aluminum pieces. Maybe there's something more obvious in hand, but that HK-224 looks plenty nice in that pic!
jonathan
<< <i>Very, very nice.
I still don't understand what it takes to get above a 62 for some of the white-metal and aluminum pieces. Maybe there's something more obvious in hand, but that HK-224 looks plenty nice in that pic!
jonathan >>
I wonder if NGC takes points off for the hole.
<< <i>Maybe there's something more obvious in hand, but that HK-224 looks plenty nice in that pic! >>
Yea, verily.
The cameo on the devices matched with mirrored fields make it stand out nicely.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>
<< <i>Why are these medals in slabs? >>
<< <i>So-called dollars that nice are truly impressive. I'm glad to see they are being slabbed as it should protect them for the future. >>
>>
And yet, thse late 19th century items (Columbus expo) have already survived over 100 years without slabs. Sure not all have, and not all have done so well, but slabs are definately not the only (nor even best) solution for storage.
<< <i>Enough said. Also, when it comes time to sell, they sell for more money, the rarity is somewhat traceable via pop reports, and they are guaranteed genuine. >>
From what I've heard, the pop reports for so-called dollars are presently worthless, as there hasn't been a large enough population slabbed yet to really figure out what they mean. Plus, for just how many so-called dollars is authenticity a concern? Is it even 10 HK numbers (my guess is perhaps some of the Leshers, I know there's a non-deceptive Bryan money counterfeit, and perhaps classic items such as HK1 or the silver 1000)? And in any case, isn't educating yourself what genuine items look like a much better way to go about it? If the only answer to "how do you know it's genuine?" one has is "it's in a slab" then you have no good answer at all.
As to any major price differential between (similar) raw and slabbed pieces, how can anyone view that as a postive attribute of a hobby? Might as well start paying huge premiums for items in Captial Plastic holders also. Makes the same amount of sense.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>From what I've heard, the pop reports for so-called dollars are presently worthless, as there hasn't been a large enough population slabbed yet to really figure out what they mean. Plus, for just how many so-called dollars is authenticity a concern? Is it even 10 HK numbers (my guess is perhaps some of the Leshers, I know there's a non-deceptive Bryan money counterfeit, and perhaps classic items such as HK1 or the silver 1000)? And in any case, isn't educating yourself what genuine items look like a much better way to go about it? If the only answer to "how do you know it's genuine?" one has is "it's in a slab" then you have no good answer at all.
As to any major price differential between (similar) raw and slabbed pieces, how can anyone view that as a postive attribute of a hobby? Might as well start paying huge premiums for items in Captial Plastic holders also. Makes the same amount of sense. >>
The pop reports are in fact just starting. As did pop reports on US and World coins back in 1986. What's your point? Many more SC$s and medals are being slabbed lately especially since NGC started SC$s in June of this year. When it comes time to sell and I'm' sitting with a Pop1/0, I'm likely to get more money than a raw coin with my own number on it. Your hypothesis only applies if I am selling today. Maybe you missed the comment that these are TODAY'S purchases. There are many SC$s that have been treated or plated. Sometimes it's just plain difficult to tell the difference between a gilt and a yellow bronze. Having the SC$s and medals in holders makes them easier to handle, easier to store, and keeps them from getting slide marks, hits, or any other type of potential damage. Again, your hypothesis makes no sense. Why slab any coin? A 1792 half disme has been around and survived for hundreds of years. Why slab it?
Isn't getting an expert opinion on a coin part of the learning process? I can guess all I want, but it takes a known answer to know if you are right or wrong.
As far as pricing, that's just a part of the hobby. Certified coins typically bring more money. I'm going to use it to my advantage when I sell.
Finally, I bought these already in holders. Do you have a problem with that?
<< <i>Oh cool! Wasn't the Board of Lady Managers tied to the Isabella Quarter, too?
Nice SC$s.
-Amanda >>
Yes, the Isabella quarters were sold as a fundraiser for the Board of Lady Managers.
Tmot, your Columbian Expo collection is quite impressive! Just don't start collecting the souvenir spoons and I'll be O.K.
<< <i>
<< <i>From what I've heard, the pop reports for so-called dollars are presently worthless, as there hasn't been a large enough population slabbed yet to really figure out what they mean. Plus, for just how many so-called dollars is authenticity a concern? Is it even 10 HK numbers (my guess is perhaps some of the Leshers, I know there's a non-deceptive Bryan money counterfeit, and perhaps classic items such as HK1 or the silver 1000)? And in any case, isn't educating yourself what genuine items look like a much better way to go about it? If the only answer to "how do you know it's genuine?" one has is "it's in a slab" then you have no good answer at all.
As to any major price differential between (similar) raw and slabbed pieces, how can anyone view that as a postive attribute of a hobby? Might as well start paying huge premiums for items in Captial Plastic holders also. Makes the same amount of sense. >>
The pop reports are in fact just starting. As did pop reports on US and World coins back in 1986. What's your point? >>
Just that. They are not good data at present. Maybe in the future, but given how much coin pop reports have to be interpreted to be useful, I doubt SCD pops will be any different. And the interpretation will be from those who will look at the medals themselves, how often they appear in differtent sources, track pedigree chains, and so forth. Which makes one wonder just what the pop reports add to this data...
<< <i>Many more SC$s and medals are being slabbed lately especially since NGC started SC$s in June of this year. When it comes time to sell and I'm' sitting with a Pop1/0, I'm likely to get more money than a raw coin with my own number on it. Your hypothesis only applies if I am selling today. Maybe you missed the comment that these are TODAY'S purchases. >>
Good luck. A pop 1/0 may be a pop 0/0/0/0/1/0 or a pop 134/432/542/453/1/0. They are different creatures, and while the first should enjoy a premium over lower grade pieces, the second probably cannot be reliably determined to be better than its 453 nearest neighbors (and probably more like at least 995 of its nearest neighbors). Given what little I know about the nature of SCDs, the second (except for the wildly inflated numbers) is probably closer to the truth. (Yes, I suspect something like 1/4/5/4/1/0 would be more reasonable given certain SCD mintages.) BTW, how do you know the 1/0 was not previously a 453/0/0 or a 4/0/0? Something tells me this is yet another piece of data the slab will not contain.
<< <i>There are many SC$s that have been treated or plated. Sometimes it's just plain difficult to tell the difference between a gilt and a yellow bronze. >>
So weigh it, and get its specific gravity. Look at it under a loupe. If it's slabbed, you can't make the measurements. And how do you know the slabbing companies made them? For all we know, they are judging these attributions by appearence. That's a point against slabs, not for them.
<< <i> Having the SC$s and medals in holders makes them easier to handle, easier to store, and keeps them from getting slide marks, hits, or any other type of potential damage. Again, your hypothesis makes no sense. >>
Any hard plastic holders will have the same advantages. Plus, if the coin/medal can be removed readily from the holder, it can undergo study easier. What does it weigh? What's its specific gravity? Can we do some sort of elemental analysis? What's the edge? How many reeds? If lettered, does it come from the same lettering die as other varieties? Good luck answering these questions with slabbed coins.
<< <i>Why slab any coin?A 1792 half disme has been around and survived for hundreds of years. Why slab it? >>
I see no reason doing so. Authentication, sure. But slabbing as a means towards authentication is merely due to some contingincies at the present time. I'd much rather have photocertificates than slabs.
<< <i>Isn't getting an expert opinion on a coin part of the learning process? I can guess all I want, but it takes a known answer to know if you are right or wrong. >>
And if the experts do not back up their answer, what good is it? And slabs just contain the answer, they say nothing about how it was reached. A photocertificate, a book, or a discussion with an expert can reveal their reasons for giving an answer. Note the "it's in a slab" as I state above is no good answer to how one knows something is authentic.
<< <i>As far as pricing, that's just a part of the hobby. Certified coins typically bring more money. I'm going to use it to my advantage when I sell. >>
Taking (what I hope to be) a more long term view and in view of what (I think is) good for the hobby as a whole, I think that existence of price differentials due to what holder a numismatic item can only be detrimental to the hobby, as it reflects a lack of independent thought. All slabbed items I have purchased, I would have purchased at the same amount if raw. (Granted, in one case, it would still need to have been authenticated. But that doesn't mean slabbed. And even that scenario would reflect a shortcoming on my part. Why don't I know enough to have the confidence to authenticate well enough on my own after all this time?)
<< <i>Finally, I bought these already in holders. Do you have a problem with that? >>
No, I've bought coins and even medals which happen to have been slabbed.
Oh, ask any early federal variety collector what they think about the slab variety attributions. We'll tell you not to trust them. Why trust them on SCD's then either? Figure them out yourself. So now we have slabs which have some numerical "grade" which means who knows what, at best that an abbreviation of a descriptive grade, at worst people have gotten banned here using the words which may be described as for what they may be, and an attribution which you better check yourself. Missing is pedigree, weight, specific gravity, edge characteristics, and so forth. And some of those the slabs prevent you from obtaining w/o permanently removing it from the slab. Authentication can be done by other means. Sure, buy slabbed coins if the coin is something you want, but why would anyone want to help the slabbing companies by submissions?
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh cool! Wasn't the Board of Lady Managers tied to the Isabella Quarter, too?
Nice SC$s.
-Amanda >>
Yes, the Isabella quarters were sold as a fundraiser for the Board of Lady Managers.
Tmot, your Columbian Expo collection is quite impressive! Just don't start collecting the souvenir spoons and I'll be O.K.
My Columbian Expo spoon is graded MS70 and the holder proves it!
<< <i> .........and they are guaranteed genuine. >>
Is counterfeiting a problem with SCD's?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< Why are these medals in slabs? >>
<< So-called dollars that nice are truly impressive. I'm glad to see they are being slabbed as it should protect them for the future. >>
And yet, thse late 19th century items (Columbus expo) have already survived over 100 years without slabs. Sure not all have, and not all have done so well, but slabs are definately not the only (nor even best) solution for storage.
Well maybe not the only or best, but not a bad cost effective solution either.
<< From what I've heard, the pop reports for so-called dollars are presently worthless, as there hasn't been a large enough population slabbed yet to really figure out what they mean. Plus, for just how many so-called dollars is authenticity a concern? Is it even 10 HK numbers (my guess is perhaps some of the Leshers, I know there's a non-deceptive Bryan money counterfeit, and perhaps classic items such as HK1 or the silver 1000)? And in any case, isn't educating yourself what genuine items look like a much better way to go about it? If the only answer to "how do you know it's genuine?" one has is "it's in a slab" then you have no good answer at all.
Education is a great part of collecting enjoyment.
As to any major price differential between (similar) raw and slabbed pieces, how can anyone view that as a postive attribute of a hobby? Might as well start paying huge premiums for items in Captial Plastic holders also. Makes the same amount of sense. >>
I think that in any form of collecting, the better the condition, the bigger the price differential.
The pop reports are in fact just starting. As did pop reports on US and World coins back in 1986. What's your point? >>
Just that. They are not good data at present. Maybe in the future, but given how much coin pop reports have to be interpreted to be useful, I doubt SCD pops will be any different. And the interpretation will be from those who will look at the medals themselves, how often they appear in differtent sources, track pedigree chains, and so forth. Which makes one wonder just what the pop reports add to this data...
Like any database you have to have a starting point and grow it from there, I think that the pop report will show a truer picture of rarity than the book, but this will take time to flesh out. For some other and different sources here is a link to what another collector has compiled;
http://www.socalleddollar.com/
<< Having the SC$s and medals in holders makes them easier to handle, easier to store, and keeps them from getting slide marks, hits, or any other type of potential damage. Again, your hypothesis makes no sense. >>
Any hard plastic holders will have the same advantages. Plus, if the coin/medal can be removed readily from the holder, it can undergo study easier. What does it weigh? What's its specific gravity? Can we do some sort of elemental analysis? What's the edge? How many reeds? If lettered, does it come from the same lettering die as other varieties? Good luck answering these questions with slabbed coins.
Not all hard plastic holders are the same. I have had weight and size added to the description on some slabbed medals, also some edge lettering characteristics, so its possible to have a better description. Some medal collectors also collect with a different perspective where the story and historical theme behind the medal is more interesting than how many reeds are on the edge or the pedigree chain. Just different strokes for different folks or whatever makes collecting more enjoyable to you.
Taking (what I hope to be) a more long term view and in view of what (I think is) good for the hobby as a whole, I think that existence of price differentials due to what holder a numismatic item can only be detrimental to the hobby, as it reflects a lack of independent thought. All slabbed items I have purchased, I would have purchased at the same amount if raw. (Granted, in one case, it would still need to have been authenticated. But that doesn't mean slabbed. And even that scenario would reflect a shortcoming on my part. Why don't I know enough to have the confidence to authenticate well enough on my own after all this time?)
Price differentials in numismatics or in any area of collecting depending on condition of the underlying asset are a fact of life. I take a broader view in looking at true rarity in any condition as opposed to if something is the highest graded or finest known in collecting medals. I can't tell the difference between some grades and really don't care as in enjoying my aspect of collecting its the collecting and learning about the history behind the medal thats more important to me. Always its important to do ones own research from whatever data you can find, but in doing so and talking with other collectors, you may find something of extreme worth or priceless. A Friendship.
Regards,
dealmakr
Regarding buying Capital Plastics holders, this can be very difficult for medals and so-calleds. They vary in thickness and diameter so that most of the holders I would need would be special order from Capital and therefore require as much if not more money than having NGC certify the coin. With NGC, I get a whole lot more information and another opinion on the coin.
This thread was originated to show some cool so-called dollars that many have not seen or will not see. How did this turn into a pro/anti-slab thread?
As usual!