Coin dealers: Please answer these questions......

SanctionII · October 10, 2006 7:47AM

........... and be candid with your answers.

No one can be an expert on all coins. Some collectors who devote themselves to a series or two may know alot more about same than a dealer does.

With the above in mind, the questions are:

Do you get upset when you find out that you have sold a coin that turns out to be much more valuable than you thought it was (due to it being a variety, of having another attribute you were not aware of) to a knowledgable collector who recognizes the coin as being more valuable than you think it is and who does not inform you of same (in other words a cherrypicker)? If so, why do you get upset? If not, why not?

This probably happens every day and is the reverse of a situation where an unknowledgable seller comes to a dealer who buys the coins offered by the seller for much less than the true value of same.

For those dealers who respond to this thread I offer you my thanks in advance. SanctionII.

Cladiator · October 10, 2006 7:49AM

Good thread.

airplanenut · October 10, 2006 7:52AM

An addition: Suppose you wouldn't get upset at any of the above (you feel good for the buyer when you hear of the success on the grapevine). Do you get upset if the buyer comes back to you and tells you personally that they made a large profit from you?

longtimecollector · October 10, 2006 7:54AM

I actually search many of the coins I buy "through the door" for WELL KNOWN varieties......... These are the ones that would bring more money....... 42/41 mercs, 16 ddo Buffs, the major ddo Lincolns, dateless T1 SLQ's, redbook varieties, etc........... I'll check WB#s of Seated Halves, Overton on Busties, etc......... If a collector finds a variety in my stock, more power to them ! Never bothers me to let someone look at a tray of coins for a half hour or so....... It's what the business is about

WoodenJefferson · October 10, 2006 7:56AM

When I read your post SanctionII I remembered this from a few days ago...I'm sure this goes on a lot.

itsnotjustme wrote:

I did find a good buy. A 5% of center PCGS MS66 clad Ike! The price was in line with a non-off center MS66. I think the guy was just an error specialist and did not know an MS66 Ike on its own was worth so much.

BrianKuszmar · October 10, 2006 7:59AM

<< <i>This probably happens every day and is the reverse of a situation where an unknowledgable seller comes to a dealer who buys the coins offered by the seller for much less than the true value of same. >>

I liked the thread until it came to the part that insinuates most everyday most dealers rip off unknowledgable sellers. Or did I read it wrong? Or was this a question for the dishonest dealers?

Regards

Brian Kuszmar
Second Generation Coin Dealer

Jcarney · October 10, 2006 8:35AM

<< <i>The bottom line is that it's good for a SELLER if those who buy his coins are happy with them and/or do well with them. >>

The dealers (and collectors) who try to bury others in coins should read that a few times.

MrEureka · October 10, 2006 8:51AM

I only get upset when I make a stupid blunder. And I get upset at myself, not the buyer.

RichieURich · October 10, 2006 9:05AM

Another way of looking at this is to ask: "Does a dealer get upset if another dealer buys a coin from him/her, and subsequently sells the coin at a profit?" The answer for me is NO. A high percentage of my sales at shows are to dealers, and hopefully they will sell what they buy from me at a profit. That way they'll come back and buy more from me.

As far as cherrypicks go, I buy and sell a lot of varieties, so not too many people look through my stock for varieties, because they know I've already done so. But every once in a while, someone will buy a coin at the price listed on the holder without negotiating, so I know that person has found something good. Of course, I have a few coins setting out that are underpriced, just so some observant person will be able to get a good deal (and I can point this out after their purchase).

SanctionII · October 10, 2006 9:12AM

Brian Kuszmar:

I did not intend to bring up the "slimy dealer rips off clueless coin seller" scenario and to the extent my opening post implied same, I correct it now.

The point I was getting at in making the comparison is that persons with superior knowledge can find good deals that allow them to resell at a profit (God bless free market capitalism, since it has allowed the USA to become a place where anyone, from any background, can do anything they want to with their lives and become wildly successful at it with hard work).

Thus this is not a thread directed at dishonest dealers. However, I invite all dealers to take a stab at answering the posed questions.

Airplanenut: Your additional question is also interesting. I am not a dealer, however I will give my answer to your question. Personally I would not mind if a customer told me that he or she flipped a coin I sold them for a profit (even a large one), unless the customer presented it in a way to denigrate me (rub my nose in it) and elevate him or her (boast about how special or great they are). For such a customer, I would have to consider whether I wanted to do business with them in the future.

BTW, all of the replies thus far are very informative.

mrearlygold · October 10, 2006 10:52AM

I can tell you that a famous collector on the west coast did that with his _____ ______ collection.

When you specialize you are bound to pick a few off here and there and that's really a great thing. The best is when you do pick one off and the dealer doesn't even know it.

If it only happens once in your life.........

buckeyefan · October 10, 2006 11:03AM

I don't. I can't know everything.
I buy a coin and sell a coin and It is up to me to figure the rest out. Isn't this why we all find a niche. Plus the grading services always make my life interesting.

I sold a raw MS64 1939-D walker to a customer that had been graded later by PCGS as an MS66, AND I bought it back.!! O well
I do look for varieties I have a buch of type 2 Ikes 1960 L/S date and S/L date proofs and many other proof varieties.

SanctionII · October 10, 2006 11:24AM

mrearlygold:

I can relate to your point about finding a cherrypick and acquiring it without the dealer ever learning about it.

It happened to me just last week. Though "modern" and thus not everyones cup of tea, I bought a 1959 Proof set for $25.00. The set had a half with a DCAM obverse and a moderate CAM reverse. The mirrored fields are deep, watery and black. The coin has no hairlines. The only defect I could see is one small milk spot. By far and away the best 59 raw proof Frankie I have ever seen. I suspect that even with the moderate frost on the reverse and the small milk spot, this coin could easily sell for hundreds of dollars raw to a collector of CAM/DCAM Frankies. The dealer who sold me the set did not seem to know about pre 1970 CAM proofs and the premiums that they can bring. I smiled a mile wide smile on the drive from the shop back to my office.

mrearlygold · October 10, 2006 11:41AM

<< <i>mrearlygold:

I can relate to your point about finding a cherrypick and acquiring it without the dealer ever learning about it.

It happened to me just last week. Though "modern" and thus not everyones cup of tea, I bought a 1959 Proof set for $25.00. The set had a half with a DCAM obverse and a moderate CAM reverse. The mirrored fields are deep, watery and black. The coin has no hairlines. The only defect I could see is one small milk spot. By far and away the best 59 raw proof Frankie I have ever seen. I suspect that even with the moderate frost on the reverse and the small milk spot, this coin could easily sell for hundreds of dollars raw to a collector of CAM/DCAM Frankies. The dealer who sold me the set did not seem to know about pre 1970 CAM proofs and the premiums that they can bring. I smiled a mile wide smile on the drive from the shop back to my office. >>

Sanction, howz about posting a picture?

thebeav · October 10, 2006 12:25PM

I would never be upset at such a thing. Chances are, I made a profit when I sold the coin. My sincere desire is that anyone
that purchases a coin from me also can profit by it. In this way, they will be back for more coins. The happier my buyers are, the more I'll sell.....
Pretty simple really !! That is, when you count on this business for a living.....

TheNumish · October 10, 2006 12:32PM

No one can be an expert in everything and when you are doing a lot of buying and selling you are going to be picked off. If you try to do everything perfectly, get the most for every coin and catch every little angle at some point it will stunt your ability to buy and sell. At least that's my opinion. I've been picked off so many times it's comical. I try to keep it all in perspective. I make a good living and enjoy what I do. Life is good.

SanctionII · October 11, 2006 2:02AM

mrearlygold:

Sorry but I can not post pics.

nencoin · October 11, 2006 5:01AM

I see no reason for a dealer to get upset at all. If the collector is knowledgable enough about particular varieties to buy rare ones from dealers at common prices, then they deserve to reap the benefit. If the dealer has a problem with it, he can always educate himself better on the series. And from a dealer perspective, I'm pleased that I've just added another happy customer to our client base who will likely continue to check our inventory on a regular basis. We've also had customers get upgrades on coins we sold them (sometimes big upgrades), and I always enjoy hearing the news. A happy customer will often equal a good customer.

Chris

itsnotjustme · October 11, 2006 5:13AM

Wow! I feel complimented to be quoted as a specialist who knew more about the Error Ike I bought than the Error Dealer who sold it.

An interesting crrellary to this is examples of people getting bank rolls of Unc state quarters and cherrying high grade coins. I have found many $100 - $500 coins at face value this way.

Barndog · October 11, 2006 5:13AM

for a story about a dealer getting upset, read MrHalfDime's post to this thread: JPS

TheNumish · October 11, 2006 5:26AM

After thinking about it some more I have to admit sometimes it does feel like I'm getting poked in the eye with a needle when I find out I've been picked off. Pain usually goes away pretty quick and I try to learn from the experience. Only human.

What bugs me even more is the sport chisle. You give someone a good deal, you know they are going to buy it but still offer 5% less just to beat you down. That really bugs me. There is one guy who is on the boards a lot who is an expert at it and I avoid him only because of this one thing. Otherwise we'd be doing a lot more business.

PinnacleRarities · October 11, 2006 5:47AM

During my tenure at U.S. Coins, in Houston, (1987-2000) our sales were 90% wholesale (dealer to dealer) we used to use the saying, "we make a living under selling coins." If no one made money on the coins they bought, why would they come back. Now sitting behind a 'retail' desk, a similiar attitude prevails. Recent auctions sold off some of our customers' coins. They contacted us apologetic about not letting us market the collection. Katy's comment was, "We enjoy seeing our customers make money on coins we placed."

I like most everyone I sell coins to, so seeing them make money on the coins they purchased doesn't upset me. Spread the wealth baby!

lkrarecoins · October 11, 2006 5:57AM

If the Dealers get upset, then why the heck aren't they looking at their own coins?

I try to search through all of my coins before selling them.
If I miss a cherrypick, either out of stupidity, inexperience, or laziness, then I can live with that.

YN's and all collectors still need to have the thrill of a treasure hunt in order to maintain interest in this hobby.

So, I personally would never be angry if I was cherrypicked...However, if I didn't learn the second time around, then I would be angry (at myself).

SanctionII · October 11, 2006 6:18AM

I have enjoyed this post quite a bit. The responses thus far seem to be along the lines that dealers do not have a problem with a knowledgable collector/buyer cherrypicking them.

I assume that some dealers would have a negative response to this happening to them. I hope that any such dealer (who has had it happen to them) will reply to this post and honestly answer the questions.
We shall see.

FinallyHere · October 11, 2006 6:43AM

Pertaining to selling a variety or "better date" for too little I'm not aware of (probably has happened but just don't know it), but I've certainly sold coins that have upgraded, many in fact, to clients over the years and I have never felt anything other than joy for them. Frustrated at times for sure, but that's at the services and not the client. Some business models are based on playing the upgrade game, ours is not. It's wonderful to see folks you interact with and who choose to do business with you do well. It not only keeps them loyal, but it usually results in a very positive and mutually beneficial relationship, and a relationship that stands the test of time.

Coin dealers: Please answer these questions......

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