In Atlanta a coin dealer told me....

ANACONDA · October 9, 2006 10:43PM

...that he had a million and a half dollars worth of raw coins that he can't get into the right holders. He offered us a rare date Morgan that sheets at 9K in 64 and 45K in 65. It was a really high end 64. We asked him "why aren't you going to resubmit it?" That's when he said that he already had a million and a half dollars worth of raw coins that he can't get into the right holders.

I wonder how much of a loss he would take if he submitted all of the coins to PCGS, accepted the grades they gave and auctioned all of them off?

ColonialCoinUnion · October 9, 2006 10:44PM

I'm glad we don't operate by this business model.

IGWT · October 9, 2006 10:46PM

What did he mean by the "right holders"? Was he referring to the grade or to the TPGS?

Leiana · October 9, 2006 10:54PM

Why can't the coins get into the 'right holders?'

-Amanda

ziggy29 · October 9, 2006 10:56PM

<< What did he mean by the "right holders"? Was he referring to the grade or to the TPGS? >>

I presume he meant that he couldn't get the grades they thought the coin deserved.

Jcarney · October 9, 2006 10:56PM

<< I wonder how much of a loss he would take if he submitted all of the coins to PCGS, accepted the grades they gave and auctioned all of them off? >>

I wonder how much profit he made by getting other coins into the right holders?

IGWT · October 9, 2006 11:05PM

<< 

<< What did he mean by the "right holders"? Was he referring to the grade or to the TPGS? >>

I presume he meant that he couldn't get the grades they thought the coin deserved. >>

What a coincidence! My coins would be worth a lot more if they were in the right holders, too!

kranky · October 9, 2006 11:27PM

Although it's well-known that coins which are high-end for the grade often auction for nearly as much as the next grade up, I think some dealers can't stand to think someone else might get an upgrade out of something they sold.

So a dealer could have a strong 65 and after a few tries it won't go 66. Instead of auctioning it (when he might get near-66 money anyway), he keeps it to try again and again. You'd think cash flow would be a factor. Apparently not.

So assuming this is not a unique situation (dealers sitting on huge amounts of coins until they "get in the right holder"), why hasn't someone started a business as a submittal consultant? You know, exploiting all the little tricks that are used when sending in coins, knowing which service to use for a particular coin, knowing who to send them to for submittal (because direct submittal isn't always the best choice) and then taking a cut of any upgrades. With the amount of money at stake, you'd think there would be a good business opportunity there.

coinguy1 · October 9, 2006 11:40PM

<< 

<< What did he mean by the "right holders"? Was he referring to the grade or to the TPGS? >>

I presume he meant that he couldn't get the grades they thought the coin deserved. >>

The grades he thought the coins "deserved" or, as is often the case, grades a point higher than he bought them at, HOPING for up-grades and willing to play the numbers game.

RYK · October 9, 2006 11:45PM

I cannot wait to see stman's post on this, but I will do my best in his stead

:

Yes, all of those liner coins are PQ for the undergrade, and then, after submitting multiple times, the submitter finally gets the "wish" grade. All of a sudden, the coin becomes PQ for the new grade (and "shot" the next grade and so on and so forth...)!

tcmitssr · October 9, 2006 11:48PM

Adrian,

Please check your PM.

Thanks.

ABC123 · October 10, 2006 12:09AM

Talk is Cheap---Keith Richards

dorkkarl · October 10, 2006 12:11AM

i'll bet i know who your talking about, & i'll bet he's more successful then any other dealer who has posted to this thread.

K S

seanq · October 10, 2006 12:15AM

<< So assuming this is not a unique situation (dealers sitting on huge amounts of coins until they "get in the right holder"), why hasn't someone started a business as a submittal consultant? You know, exploiting all the little tricks that are used when sending in coins, knowing which service to use for a particular coin, knowing who to send them to for submittal (because direct submittal isn't always the best choice) and then taking a cut of any upgrades. With the amount of money at stake, you'd think there would be a good business opportunity there. >>

There was a dealer who ran ads in the back of Coin World who offered a very similar service. I'm no longer a subscriber and I can't recall his name, but he would review your holdings and identify which coins should be resubmitted, and if any of them upgraded he would take some portion of the incremental value for his troubles. Maybe someone with a current subscription can see if he's stil at it.

Sean Reynolds

Veep · October 10, 2006 12:26AM

A few years ago, Rare Coins of New Hampshire actively marketed a service to "consult" on upgrades and share in the glory.

BlindedByEgo · October 10, 2006 12:35AM

Every day that passes I view plastic more like Dorkkarl does.

ziggy29 · October 10, 2006 12:42AM

<< The grades he thought the coins "deserved" or, as is often the case, grades a point higher than he bought them at, HOPING for up-grades and willing to play the numbers game. >>

Insert "ownership adds a point" commentary here.

<< Every day that passes I view plastic more like Dorkkarl does. >>

Yeah, in some ways. I think it's great what TPGs have done for authentication and attribution, and perhaps for keeping less knowledgeable people for paying "full price" for problem coins, but it really has created a set of new problems which -- in *some* ways -- are worse than some of the problems they set out to "solve."

Longacre · October 10, 2006 12:58AM

I know this is a business, but that dealer's comments are sad for the hobby and almost insulting to a true collector who will see the coin for what it is.

bestclser1 · October 10, 2006 1:20AM

Adrian,was the Morgan offered to you for 64 money,or much higher?

ColonialCoinUnion · October 10, 2006 1:27AM

<< i'll bet i know who your talking about, & i'll bet he's more successful then any other dealer who has posted to this thread.

K S >>

I'll take that bet, as long as we only speak in vague generalities, never actually use anyone's real name and discuss only things which can never be proven or verified.

michael · October 10, 2006 1:33AM

cut to the chase and tell us how much he offered that high end morgan to you

this is the most important thing you left out of the story and without the number the story is bullsh*t and useless

Coxe · October 10, 2006 1:41AM

Did that dealer happen to be a very high-profile and long-time dealer who frequents these boards, is a member of the PCGS board of experts yet shuns TPGs in the first page of his website?

(BTW, the guy I am thinking about I like very much. He's a great dealer.)

poorguy · October 10, 2006 1:43AM

this is the most important thing you left out of the story and without the number the story is bullsh*t and useless

You can think whatever you want, be it bullsh*t or not. Leiana saw the coin as well.

mrearlygold · October 10, 2006 1:48AM

<< i'll bet i know who your talking about, & i'll bet he's more successful then any other dealer who has posted to this thread.

K S >>

If only money is what fits your definition of success, .........who cares.

Leiana · October 10, 2006 2:00AM

<< Leiana saw the coin as well. >>

Oh yeah. I remember that one.

-Amanda

shirohniichan · October 10, 2006 2:04AM

<< I'm glad we don't operate by this business model. >>

In Atlanta a coin dealer told me....

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