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1849 Seated Half: Is it a Proof or a Business Strike? New images added.
numisma
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I purchased this 1849 Seated Half at a local show recently. It was graded as AU-58. It was obvious that it had been cleaned, but something seemed different about it. I tried to get a good look at the coin at the show, but some of these local dealers may as well use candles at their tables vs. the 3 watt bulbs they use. Anyway....I bought the coin. Heck, the toning looked nice despite some scattered hairlines. I just called it an AU-58 details, NET AU-50 (cleaned). Well, I get the coin home and put it under a real lamp and........POW! This thing is a headlight. I am in the process of buying a better camera and have to settle with a cheapo little thing that barely has macro. As a result, the images below are of poor quality, but you may get the idea.
The first pic is what the coin looks like head-on. The second pic is another view under different lighting. The bottom image of the reverse is what happens when tilted at the right angle; fully prooflike. The obverse has more hairlines than the reverse, so the mirrors are muted. Even so, if you get the obverse at just the right angle you can see full mirrors. The underlying surfaces are very watery and attractive, with frosted devices. I think that the coin circulated a bit as well, further obscuring the proof characteristics of this piece. Under close examination, the mirrors are unobstructed on the entire flat plane of the fields. Even the spaces between the reverse shield are mirrored, while the eagle is frosty. You can see that in the image provided, although it is not the best.
Conclusion: I do NOT feel that it is a proof, but rather a prooflike specimen. The strike just isn't strong enough for my tastes. I think at one time it really was a spectacular coin with a cameo prooflike appearance. 1849 proof halves are RARE, with less than 10 known. One sold at Heritage recently. The images show no mirrors, but the strike is razor sharp. Well......what do you think?
The first pic is what the coin looks like head-on. The second pic is another view under different lighting. The bottom image of the reverse is what happens when tilted at the right angle; fully prooflike. The obverse has more hairlines than the reverse, so the mirrors are muted. Even so, if you get the obverse at just the right angle you can see full mirrors. The underlying surfaces are very watery and attractive, with frosted devices. I think that the coin circulated a bit as well, further obscuring the proof characteristics of this piece. Under close examination, the mirrors are unobstructed on the entire flat plane of the fields. Even the spaces between the reverse shield are mirrored, while the eagle is frosty. You can see that in the image provided, although it is not the best.
Conclusion: I do NOT feel that it is a proof, but rather a prooflike specimen. The strike just isn't strong enough for my tastes. I think at one time it really was a spectacular coin with a cameo prooflike appearance. 1849 proof halves are RARE, with less than 10 known. One sold at Heritage recently. The images show no mirrors, but the strike is razor sharp. Well......what do you think?
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I agree Dennis, probably not a proof, but definitely PL. I like the coin...very nice.
john
siliconvalleycoins.com
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has since been handled and is now tarnished
reminds me of this coin, also was a very nice prooflike cameo at one time
The head-on pics don't show it, but if tilted it has moderate reflectivity. Priced as lightly cleaned AUs, these coins are a terrific value IMO, and even deserve a premium if the mirrors and contrast are somewhat intact, and especially if they've not been cleaned.
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Go here and ask the guy who wrote the book on them what he thinks.
Ray
K S
<< <i>Doesn't look like the stripes in the shield are fully prooflike .... only about half? >>
That's just because my images are terrible. The p/l is visible in every area but the devices.
Thanks for the comments everyone. As I said in the OP, I do NOT think it is a Proof. I just made the title a question to get opinions. I will ad more images later....just for fun.
PS - DorkKarl, I agree with you that the coin is AT (Attractively Toned).
Added some new pics in O.P.
<< <i>Doesn't look like the stripes in the shield are fully prooflike .... only about half? >>
FWIW, here's what Breen says about the coin:
Half Dollar. Normal date, high, to left similar to last; shield point about over left edge of 8.
Hope this helps...Mike
That's a beauty!
FWIW, here's what Breen says about the coin:
Half Dollar. Normal date, high, to left similar to last; shield point about over left edge of 8.
Hope this helps...Mike
Yes, that's correct. If you saw the coin in hand, you would know it is not a proof. It is just very p/l. Just for fun, I actually compared the coin to a known proof. Every detail matched position..........except the date. All of the dentils/star relationships were the same. The date was put into each die independently, thus the varying locations.
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<< <i>Doesn't look AU to me. I have out my own PR65 and AU58 Seated Halves for comparison. First, the strike of the circulated coin is so good it can be hard to tell the difference from a photograph alone. Second, the stars in this coin are much better defined than in my AU58. Finally, Liberty's shield looks a lot more like the shield of my AU58 than the shield of my PR65: the horizontal stripes look a bit off, and the Y in LIBERTY is sort of faded compared to the Y of my proof. I'd call it MS62. >>
Wow. Fountainhead, thanks for the high grade opinion. It is a neat coin. However, upon close examination (live and in person) you would probably agree with my grade of AU-58 details, NET AU-50 (cleaned). I guess that the technical grade doesn't matter too much though. Sometimes it's the coolness factor that makes the grade of a coin absolutely meaningless. For example, I have sold P/L Bust Halves in the past for many multiples over bid prices. I mean 5X or even more. The price guides do not give us an indication of how to price special coins (P/L, strong strike, nice toning, etc.), therefore people sometimes just do not know how to price a coin like this. In reality, I am not that crazy about this coin. I just thought it was a neat "pick-up" from a dealer at a local show so I thought I would post it here for fun. BTW, the coin is not for sale (don't want to get accused of spam).
Thanks to everyone for your input. This was fun.
Dennis