Collecting Coins or Collecting Plastic

SkyMan · October 4, 2006 9:55AM

Just wondering, how about a show of hands of how many of you like to show your coins to other people?

There was a comment recently at another board about people collecting plastic as opposed to coins, as shown by how many registry sets did not have either descriptions or imagery of the coins in their sets.

It would seem to me that if you put together a neat set you'd want to have at least ONE image of the "Baby" of your set, so that other people could enjoy it too. Since I'm interested in Frankies I recently did a quick scan of the top 5 sets in each half dollar category that is on the NGC registry. While I was going to use both descriptions and imagery as details it turns out if you actually read some of the descriptions that they are pretty banal, such things as "Pop top" or other comments of a sort that make me think the collector is more interested in the plastic than the coins. So I created a list that shows what sets of the top 5 sets in each category had at least ONE image. The way to read this is the numbers after the category show which sets in the top 5 of that category have at least one image. For example, in the Capped Bust Half Dollars 1807-36, the number 3, 4, and 5 sets each have at least one image.

There are 22 half dollar categories. Only 3 of them have the #1 set with even one image. Only 9 of them have the #2 and #3 sets each with even one image. Five categories have ZERO images in the first 5 sets in each category, and unfortunately MS Frankies was one of those.

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, the Word file formating got corrupted when I pasted it into this post. There should be more space between the category and the sets.

Flowing Hair & Draped Bust Half Dollars 1794-1807 3,4

Capped Bust Half Dollars 1807-1836 3,4,5

Capped Bust, Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836-1839 None

Early Half Dollars 1794-1839 2,3,4,5

Seated Liberty Half Dollars, No Motto 1839-1866 2,4

Seated Liberty Half Dollars, Motto 1866-1891 4

Seated Liberty Half Dollars 1839-1891 3

Seated Liberty Half Dollars 1839-1891, One-Per-Date 2,4

Seated Liberty Half Dollars 1858-1891, Proofs 1,2,5

Barber Half Dollars 1892-1915 2,4,5

Barber Half Dollars 1892-1915, One-Per-Date 1,2,3

Barber Half Dollars 1892-1915, Proofs 1,2

Walking Liberty Half Dollars 1916-1947 None

Walking Liberty Half Dollars 1934-1947 None

Walking Liberty Half Dollars 1941-1947 None

Walking Liberty Half Dollars 1916-1947, One-Per-Date 3,4

Walking Liberty Half Dollars 1936-1942, Proofs 3,4

Franklin Half Dollars 1948-1963 None

Franklin Half Dollars 1950-1963, Proofs 2,3

Kennedy Half Dollars 1964-Date 2,4

Kennedy Half Dollars 1964-Date, Proofs 5

Kennedy Half Dollars, Silver, 1964-1970 MS and Proofs 3,4

It seems to me if you can put together a top Registry set you should have the funds to image the coins, and be proud enough of the coins to want to image at least a couple of the coins, if you're going to "brag" and put them up there on the Registry. Unfortunately what it really tells me is a lot of the top of the line sets are put together by people who are more interested in the plastic than in the coins.

Your thoughts?

Rarity · October 4, 2006 10:00AM

Coins can be a mixture of VF to MS69, VG only, or MS70 only, just to show the world how far he/she has gone, and how much effort he/she has put up to complete the collection.

Artistic, Education, and History behind the coins are Key.

Gemineye · October 4, 2006 10:15AM

<< Collecting Coins or Collecting Plastic >>

I thought this was gonna be a simple question and answer test.......

Russ · October 4, 2006 10:16AM

<< There was a comment recently at another board about people collecting plastic as opposed to coins, as shown by how many registry sets did not have either descriptions or imagery of the coins in their sets. >>

The lack of images indicates approximately nothing about the nature of the participant's collections. Not all collectors grew up with a computer on their lap. Many are older and simply lack the skills necessary to image their coins and upload those images. Others simply don't have the time.

Russ, NCNE

USAROK · October 4, 2006 10:19AM

I wish more sets had images and/or descriptions of the coins they contain as I just can't get excited about a registry set which only shows the grades.

I try to display an image of each coin in my registry sets. My NGC registry Early Commemoratives Type Set has images of all the coins as does my USA-Philippines Type Set. My USA Type Set, 1952 Mint Set and St. Pierre & Miquelon Signature set still need a few images but I'm working on it and hope to have them all imaged by the end of the year.

stman · October 4, 2006 10:20AM

<< It seems to me if you can put together a top Registry set you should have the funds to image the coins >>

I can see your point..... to a point.

I just don't think it's a good idea to assume other's finances. I've had board members assume my finances and were way off base. Now to my point, I don't do the Registry, but I've also had folks tell me why don't I spend the money (and mentioned surely I could afford it) and buy a digital camera rather than scan my images. I could, but I don't want to. Sometimes it's not always about the money.

Well to some it is and all they can think about. JMWO

LindeDad · October 4, 2006 10:29AM

Sometimes you have to look a little further down the page.

perfectstrike · October 4, 2006 10:31AM

It seems to me if you can put together a top Registry set you should have the funds to image the coins, and be proud enough of the coins to want to image at least a couple of the coins, if you're going to "brag" and put them up there on the Registry. Unfortunately what it really tells me is a lot of the top of the line sets are put together by people who are more interested in the plastic than in the coins.

I can think of several other reasons not to have images posted. Several sets are very large, having them imaged professionally would cost $2k-$4k minimum. Certain types of coins take many hours of trial and error to get one good image, this means months to a couple years for a set to be completely imaged. Some sets just aren't worth the effort. I've been chipping away at my sets since taking the digital photography class at the Summer Seminars this year. My most productive days I get maybe 10 coins imaged in 12-16 hours of effort.

I scrape by paying the mortgage every month but managed to build a great set or two by making my own submissions. I would love for my sets to be pedigreed, but can't afford the extra $5k-$10k to have this done. When I've done justice to every coin in one set, I'll post the images but will loathe spending the full day it will take to do it.

David

ccr · October 4, 2006 10:33AM

<< There was a comment recently at another board about people collecting plastic as opposed to coins, as shown by how many registry sets did not have either descriptions or imagery of the coins in their sets. >>

That`s a point; to a point. By the same token why should people show or want to show their hand? Like bidding in Bridge. You give an idea of what you have in bidding but, one doesn`t show their cards either!

labrams · October 4, 2006 10:42AM

I'm drooling over that 53-D. Thanks for the pics.

SkyMan · October 4, 2006 11:46AM

<< 

<< There was a comment recently at another board about people collecting plastic as opposed to coins, as shown by how many registry sets did not have either descriptions or imagery of the coins in their sets. >>

That`s a point; to a point. By the same token why should people show or want to show their hand? Like bidding in Bridge. You give an idea of what you have in bidding but, one doesn`t show their cards either! >>

A couple of points here, first... bidding in Bridge?... these people have listed their sets. It's not like they're trying to hide anything. Second, I'm willing to bet on it that nearly every single top 5 set in any given category bought at least SOME of their coins from dealers who image their coins and post the images on their website. While I'm willing to give people over say 50 a pass on computer literacy (although realistically I bet most people up to say age 65 can at least cut and paste), it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to copy an image off the web. Personally, I far prefer it when I buy a coin from a dealer who has the image on his site, as that way I don't have to hassle with getting the coin imaged. I'll grant you some dealers images are a whole lot better than others (don't even get me started about how BAD Heritage's images are) but on the whole, a lot of dealers, particularly the higher end dealers, take pretty decent images of their coins. So, realistically, for the owner of the coin, getting images of their coins shouldn't be much hassle at all. Again, remember the cut-off AND THE MINDSET I'm talking about here... ONE picture, not a particularly high hurdle, and the pride and/or joy in your COINS so that you wish to share your collection with other people.

dragon · October 4, 2006 11:49AM

<<< Unfortunately what it really tells me is a lot of the top of the line sets are put together by people who are more interested in the plastic than in the coins. >>>

'ya think?

I knew the registrys were nothing more than a marketing gimmick after I once viewed one of the top 5 Morgan dollar sets on display at a major show. Nearly every single coin in the entire set was either very low end for the grade or dipped out and lifeless, and I thought that set was a joke. It became obvious to me at that point the registrys had little connection with overall quality or eye appeal or matched sets of coins, but rather what fool (in many cases) will pay the most for the best plastic and useless bragging rights.

Russ · October 4, 2006 11:50AM

<< a lot of dealers, particularly the higher end dealers, take pretty decent images of their coins. So, realistically, for the owner of the coin, getting images of their coins shouldn't be much hassle at all. >>

Assuming the collector wants to go to the trouble of getting permission from the dealer. Otherwise, it is a copyright violation.

Russ, NCNE

SkyMan · October 4, 2006 11:53AM

<< 

<< a lot of dealers, particularly the higher end dealers, take pretty decent images of their coins. So, realistically, for the owner of the coin, getting images of their coins shouldn't be much hassle at all. >>

Assuming the collector wants to go to the trouble of getting permission from the dealer. Otherwise, it is a copyright violation.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ,

Do you honestly think a dealer who just sold Joe Blow a coin for X dollars is going to sue Joe Blow for using his picture?

Russ · October 4, 2006 11:59AM

<< Russ,

Do you honestly think a dealer who just sold Joe Blow a coin for X dollars is going to sue Joe Blow for using his picture? >>

Unlikely, but that doesn't alter the fact that doing so without permission is copyright infringement. Some people are strangely ethical about such things.

Russ, NCNE

seemyauction · October 4, 2006 11:59AM

<< <<< Unfortunately what it really tells me is a lot of the top of the line sets are put together by people who are more interested in the plastic than in the coins. >>>

'ya think?

I knew the registrys were nothing more than a marketing gimmick after I once viewed one of the top 5 Morgan dollar sets on display at a major show. Nearly every single coin in the entire set was either very low end for the grade or dipped out and lifeless, and I thought that set was a joke. It became obvious to me at that point the registrys had little connection with overall quality or eye appeal or matched sets of coins, but rather what fool (in many cases) will pay the most for the best plastic and useless bragging rights. >>

I have to agree with you on this one....

stman · October 4, 2006 12:00PM

<< While I'm willing to give people over say 50 a pass on computer literacy >>

That's mighty nice of you!

Russ · October 4, 2006 12:04PM

<< << While I'm willing to give people over say 50 a pass on computer literacy >>

That's mighty nice of you! >>

Yeah, we geezers appreciate it.

Russ, NCNE

Myqqy · October 4, 2006 12:10PM

I knew the registrys were nothing more than a marketing gimmick after I once viewed one of the top 5 Morgan dollar sets on display at a major show. Nearly every single coin in the entire set was either very low end for the grade or dipped out and lifeless, and I thought that set was a joke. It became obvious to me at that point the registrys had little connection with overall quality or eye appeal or matched sets of coins, but rather what fool (in many cases) will pay the most for the best plastic and useless bragging rights.

Sad, but true......

ibzman350 · October 4, 2006 12:46PM

<<Collecting Coins or Collecting Plastic>>

I collect both...............Sample slabs(plastic) and widgets(Coins)

and yes I enjoy showing them off every chance I get.

Herb

yellowjacket · October 4, 2006 12:52PM

My goal is to learn coin photography and post images of my sets. I just retired and thought, "Now you have the time." Well, I just jumped into another career and my plans are on hold again. And, yes, I'm well over fifty.

BTW, I'm very proud of my sets.

Garrow

RedTiger · October 4, 2006 12:57PM

Taking good coin pictures takes a lot of time or a significant investment of time plus security risk. In my opinion, only those that sell a lot of coins or camera geeks who enjoy taking pictures for their own sake can justify the time/money investment. Probably only a small fraction of registry participants fall into one of these categories.

I no longer show off expensive coins to most people. Word gets around, and usually to the wrong folks. I will show some coins and give some coins as gifts, but they tend to be relatively low value coins. If asked, that is what I will say as to value, even if it is worth more.

Coxe · October 4, 2006 1:04PM

I shot many of mine for the ones in my registry across the street. Most of the others are imaged and all before I put them at the bank, but bringing the images up and editing them for the right sizes is a hassle to do regularly. Nice when they do get out there though. Registries are nice and all in identifying folks with similar colelcting interests and checking out their coins, but some have taken to accumulating plastic, the right plastic and not the right coins. I really don't get folks who do a set and them hide the contents as well as those who obviously just throw money out there to build a set in a year or less with what has got to be little regard for coin quality. Even wasting time crossing coins, especially low value ones just for a registry, is insane.

Curley · October 4, 2006 1:40PM

One additional thought to consider...

Don't assume that all top collections are registered. I have a couple of sets that would rank very well in their series but I have never understood the concept of coin collecting as a competitive "sport". I collect for my own enjoyment.

Coxe · October 4, 2006 1:45PM

Also don't assume all registered sets are fully represented in the registries. Who needs all the crossover meshugass and expense when the time and dollars can be devoted to more coins. I got plenty of great ANACS pieces that won't become instantly better coins in different plastic. Now, if I was selling the whole shooting match, that's another story. Gotta be practical there.

dizzyfoxx · October 4, 2006 1:49PM

I think each and every one of us out there in this hobby should collect one thing and one thing only... eye-appeal! Not what someone else says eye-appeal should be, but what YOU feel eye-appeal is. JMWO.

coinbuf · October 4, 2006 1:58PM

The two best reasons for not imaging a full set are time and security. My 1909 to date Lincoln set would take years to shoot, edit, upload, all the pics of every coin. Most common dates(many for this series) just are not worth the time. I've taken and in some cases had pics taken of many of the key and semi key dates and some of the others that are interesting, to me anyway, and are uploaded in all my sets. For myself that is enough, personally what I hate are the sets that cannot be viewed, I understand the possible security issues but whats the point of having a set that cannot be viewed.

Chris

Coxe · October 4, 2006 2:03PM

Chris -- Imaging is great for security. Keep the coins in the bank and have the images, share the images and use the images if you ever do have a coin stolen. I don't understand those who don't share their images. I guess they could be reused for phony eBay sales or something. Wouldn't that make for an interesting case? Someone buys a coin on eBay from a seller who used your coin's image, perhaps evena slab image, complete with serial number. They naturally get stiffed. Later they see itin your set and accuse you of stealing their money or the coin or having stolen property. You'd be in the clear but would certainly be interesting and emotional.

pharmer · October 4, 2006 2:07PM

<< One additional thought to consider...

Don't assume that all top collections are registered. I have a couple of sets that would rank very well in their series but I have never understood the concept of coin collecting as a competitive "sport". I collect for my own enjoyment. >>

Finally someone I can identify with. My Lincoln sets would rank up there, but it would never occur to me to do the registry thing. And I put mine together the hard way, finding most of them raw (while searching unc rolls for varieties) and submitting.

And I wouldn't image them even if I did do the registry game. I only image gorgeous toners. Once you've seen one pcgs ms67 red wheat, you've seen em all, so what would be the point?

Dog97 · October 4, 2006 6:13PM

<<<There was a comment recently at another board about people collecting plastic as opposed to coins, as shown by how many registry sets did not have either descriptions or imagery of the coins in their sets.>>>
I concur. If they have the skills to upload a coin to the registry they have the skills to upload a picture. It's actually easier to upload a picture than a coin because to upload pict you don't have to take your hand of the mouse but to upload a coin or make a description you have to actually have to move your hand & type in numbers & letters on your keyboard manually. If they have the $$ to buy a reg set & a puter they have $99 to buy a scanner or save 200 miles from their Marlboros and get a free camera. They're ashamed of their dipped out low end coins that they bought for the #'s on the slab so they have no pictures or remarks. IMO.

BAJJERFAN · October 4, 2006 8:36PM

It is possible to buy nice coins in plastic. Just because a coin is in brand X plastic don't automatically make it great. If Joe Collector submits a turd and ACME grading can't find a reason to bag it; they gotta grade and slab it, simple as that. I have noticed that it seems a lot easier lately to upload pix from your hard drive direct to your registry sets than it used to be. None of those wrong character messages and stuff like that.

yellowjacket · October 5, 2006 12:51PM

Heritage offered to photograph my whole set of Mercs and Buffs, no charge. I think I'll wait and learn to do it myself.

Garrow

Conder101 · October 5, 2006 10:10PM

Your arguments about the time and effort it would take to image the entire registry set are well taken but miss the point of the OP. He isn't commenting that they haven't imaged their whole sets, but that they don't have enough real interest in their top collection to image even a single piece, not even their top "pride and joy". Yes it takes a lot of effort to get images of everything, but how much trouble is it to get an image of ONE.

Coxe · October 5, 2006 11:07PM

Conder and others: we are all preaching to the choir. But let the b1tchfest go on. The registries retards are not the types who do the forum usually. We are all the folks who like to share our images ad nauseum here and wherever else, generally appreciating and enjoying coins. Those plastic collectors probably don't care if they take physical custody of their "coins" as long as they own them and can get the registry points. The registires are peripheral. I initially liked them for the ability, as pointed out, to see similar folks' collections and identify comrades. The little friendly competition is ok too, but I am not going broke with crossovers just to make a registry set grow. When one collector, whom I generally respect a lot, offered me mad money for a few of my coins sight-unseen, I kind of felt differently about him as a collector.

CommemDude · October 6, 2006 1:20AM

Hey guys, this is getting a little harsh, don't you think? There are some real collectors out here with registry sets who don't want to be lumped in with the plastic accumulators. I for one have turned down MANY upgrades to my set because I am not about to pay 15K for white MS67 BTWs or Wash Carvers with low pops and nothing to distinguish them from the MS66s already in my set. You are painting everyone with too broad a brush here.

Collecting Coins or Collecting Plastic

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