I just found a cool clashed buffalo! Masked Indian?

Leiana · October 1, 2006 6:02AM

Well, actually it's the obverse that is nifty on this coin.

There are clash marks by the Indian's eye from the bison's belly and back leg!

I am not sure if it has enough clash marks showing to make it a Masked Indian (or Lone Ranger variety) but I think it is cool nonetheless!! I didn't even notice it until I was photographing it for my site.

But that just makes it so much cooler!

-Amanda

hiyosilver · October 1, 2006 6:11AM

You rang?.......

Leiana · October 1, 2006 6:15AM

<< You rang?.......

>>

Good one.

-Amanda

Leiana · October 1, 2006 7:02AM

Here is a highlight of the clash and an inset of the clash origin.

-Amanda

RVDavis · October 1, 2006 7:04AM

cool find Amanda! I just spent four hours looking through three hundred Morgans for clashes, pretty interesting stuff eh?

Rick

Leiana · October 1, 2006 7:09AM

<< cool find Amanda! I just spent four hours looking through three hundred Morgans for clashes, pretty interesting stuff eh?

Rick >>

Thanks! Clashes and die cracks alike are very awesome stuff!

-Amanda

hiyosilver · October 1, 2006 8:37AM

A bump since I wouldn't know a buffalo variety from a buffalo chip.

Leiana · October 1, 2006 8:41AM

Here's my first try at making an overlay thingy.

-Amanda

Leiana · October 1, 2006 10:24AM

-Amanda

jonesy · October 1, 2006 10:58AM

Sweet!!

intocoins · October 1, 2006 11:00AM

Cool , your overlay looks like a brockage. The photo you show of the clash with the red line indicating the position of the Buffalo is to close to the rim for a proper alignment. The dies must have been mis-aligned, but would'nt the collar prevent the dies from smacking each other? I think more likely that the coin is a flip-over double strike, but don't have to much experience with this kind of thing .. Maybe others will chime in. Anyway cool find. Happy hunting. If i ever get a decent camera i'll post some of my clashes.

Shamika · October 1, 2006 12:11PM

Amanda - Here you go. One can see were the Buffalo's belly can clash just behind the Indian's eye resulting in the Masked Indian variety.

Leiana · October 1, 2006 12:12PM

<< Cool , your overlay looks like a brockage. The photo you show of the clash with the red line indicating the position of the Buffalo is to close to the rim for a proper alignment. The dies must have been mis-aligned, but would'nt the collar prevent the dies from smacking each other? I think more likely that the coin is a flip-over double strike, but don't have to much experience with this kind of thing .. Maybe others will chime in. Anyway cool find. Happy hunting. If i ever get a decent camera i'll post some of my clashes. >>

Thanks! I do not think it is a flip-over double strike, as wouldn't that show more detail from the reverse? The horizontal line I highlighted is consistant with where the bison's belly would be, I think.

It really looks very much like the Masked Indian variety in the book Buffalo Nickels The Abraded Die Varieties which was brought about by clashing of the dies.

-Amanda

Leiana · October 1, 2006 12:14PM

That's a great overlay, Chris! Thanks.

Do you think my nickel shows enough clashing to be a masked variety? Or are my pictures not good enough?

-Amanda

Shamika · October 1, 2006 12:31PM

<< Do you think my nickel shows enough clashing to be a masked variety? >>

Hmmm... I'm kind of on the fence. To be honest, the first time I saw it, my thoughts were that it was not since there is not enough additional clash below the eye and across the nose. But now that I've really studied it a bit longer, I might be wrong.

The fun thing is, if it's truely a Masked Indian, it would be the first recorded such instance for this date.

Please send a PM to Koynekwest and he'll give you a more authoratative opinion.

Leiana · October 1, 2006 12:38PM

<< 

<< Do you think my nickel shows enough clashing to be a masked variety? >>

Hmmm... I'm kind of on the fence. To be honest, the first time I saw it, my thoughts were that it was not since there is not enough additional clash below the eye and across the nose. But now that I've really studied it a bit longer, I might be wrong. >>

That's why I am asking people's opinions.

There is a lot of what seems to be die polish lines around the clashes.

<< The fun thing is, if it's truely a Masked Indian, it would be the first recorded such instance for this date. >>

That's why I'm excited!

<< Please send a PM to Koynekwest and he'll give you a more authoratative opinion. >>

Will do.

Thanks!

-Amanda

Craton · October 1, 2006 12:40PM

Those are such deep areas of the die and I don't understand how those areas could clash together ...... the fields would be hammered with clash marks first.....

Leiana · October 1, 2006 12:43PM

<< Those are such deep areas of the die and I don't understand how those areas could clash together ...... the fields would be hammered with clash marks first..... >>

Well, the fields are full of die polish lines.

-Amanda

Shamika · October 1, 2006 12:51PM

<< Those are such deep areas of the die and I don't understand how those areas could clash together >>

Craton - I know exactly what you're thinking, but if you look at the reverse area of the die that caused the clash, you'll notice that it's actually the shallowest portion of the die and thus just the portions that would cause clash. As for the obverse area, it does have some depth. But I've seen several specimens of this type of variety were an impression of the ENTIRE REAR LEG can be seen running right up the side of the Indian's nose and across the front edge of his forehead. Apparently, the dies were capable of far more deflection than one would think.

Shamika · October 1, 2006 12:54PM

Also, if you look closely, there appears to be a faint image of the leg running parallel to the front of the forehead below the L in LIBERTY.

yellowjacket · October 1, 2006 1:30PM

Where have I been?

After collecting Buffs for years, this is the first time I've heard or seen a "Masked Indian" clash mark. I'm familiar with several other impressions but now I'll have to review all of my Buffalos with a new eye!

Thanks Amanda and Shamika for your insightful commments and overlays.

Garrow

buffnut · October 1, 2006 2:25PM

Great thread. Although in that overlay pic you posted Chris, it looks like the buff stuck his

in the Indian's eye.

That wasn't very nice...

Leiana · October 1, 2006 9:49PM

<< Where have I been?

After collecting Buffs for years, this is the first time I've heard or seen a "Masked Indian" clash mark. I'm familiar with several other impressions but now I'll have to review all of my Buffalos with a new eye!

Thanks Amanda and Shamika for your insightful commments and overlays.

Garrow >>

You're welcome.

I think the clash is a rather recent discovery, within the last couple of years or so.

-Amanda

Shamika · October 3, 2006 1:48PM

<< Although in that overlay pic you posted Chris, it looks like the buff stuck his

in the Indian's eye. >>

Careful Travis.

Leiana · October 3, 2006 1:57PM

According to Ron Pope, this one is and my 34-P is not. This one is a late die state.

-Amanda

Shamika · October 3, 2006 2:17PM

<< Where have I been?

After collecting Buffs for years, this is the first time I've heard or seen a "Masked Indian" clash mark. >>

Garrow - A few of us have known about these for several years, but the term really hasn't caught on. Here are four other Masked Indian's although there are many other dates as well.

koynekwest · October 3, 2006 3:57PM

koynekwest · October 3, 2006 4:01PM

koynekwest · October 3, 2006 4:04PM

See the post above for a nice example. They can come even clearer than this.

A couple of years ago Bill Fivaz wrote an article on this variety where he called them the "Lone Ranger" variety. They exist for over 20 different dates and are a very neat clashed die.

Shamika · October 4, 2006 12:21AM

Thank you Ron for sharing the above image. One can clearly see the Buffalo's rear leg incused on the Indian's face.

yellowjacket · October 5, 2006 12:59PM

Great informative thread for Buffalo collectors.

Garrow

I just found a cool clashed buffalo! Masked Indian?

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