<< <i>The common fallacy people who are not in the coin business have is that widows or next of kin who have inherited a coin collection have no idea of what they have and are willing to sell at prices that are a fraction of actual value. This is simply not true. Not even close. Let me explain to you what really happens, as I am involved in these trasactions as much as anybody. By far and away the most common perception people have who inherited a collection of coins is that old coins are valueable, and the older the better. It is true, I nearly lost a deal because I only offered 50 cents for an Indian Cent that was over 100 years old, even though I offered close to MS-65 money for a Saint in an MS-64 holder because it looked PQ. She later returned and sold the collection after getting another bid. A common phrase in this business is, "I just don't think that amount is enough for a coin over 100 years old." The truth is, potential sellers hardly ever perceive that their collection has little value when in actuality it has a lot of value. The seller’s perception is almost always that their collection of coins are old and must be worth a lot, but in reality their collection is not worth much at all. It is our job, as dealers, to explain to them how the value of their coins are determined and let them know their options. To me, that is a service that would be unavailable to them without dealers. Plus, most dealers provide this service for free! I am not saying that your claim of scamming-dealers is untrue. But I think you will unscrupulous folks in just about every profession. >>
I realize that many sellers have an inflated opinion of their coins, however that's no excuse for doing business that way. You CANNOT legally hold yourself out as a professional in any field then tender an offer substantially below market. It's against the law and if the coin industry was like real estate MOST (as in most) coin dealers would be serving time in jail.
How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
<< <i>How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use. >>
Very good point. When I'm looking at a collection, I come up with a number for all of it. I have logic to get me there, but I don't go into the detail if it's not necessary. But lately, with the Internet and a lot of information available, it seems most people do have a value in mind already. Except for the people with the penny that's worth a million dollars because it's 100 years old.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
i'd hate to be a dealer myself.to have unknowing people come in with common-low grade stuff that i wouldn't buy normally anyways would make for sad times.true occasionally nice pieces would come in to make up for the stuff that turns into dust collectors in a case.to look at some stuff that you just know is so hot that it could melt your counter.my hat's off to those who do deal and make an honest effort of it resisting those impulses as well as buying the stuff "others won't".i still advocate the "B.B.B." undercover task force to do stings to clean up the industry some but..."I'D HATE TO BE A DEALER"
everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see
<<How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use.>>
Here's what I believe to be a perfectly legitimate use of "what do you want for it" or, as I sometimes ask "what are you looking to get for it?" .....Often times, for whatever reason, a seller has a completely unrealistic expectatoin/price in mind for a coin or collection. If a would-be buyer is able to discern that with a polite question, he can avoid insulting or offending a seller with what would have been a very fair offer.
I have asked that question of both dealers and collectors, and have often been amazed to learn the prices they had in mind. Rather than upsetting them, I then said "Thanks but that wont work for me" or something like that.
<< <i>The common fallacy people who are not in the coin business have is that widows or next of kin who have inherited a coin collection have no idea of what they have and are willing to sell at prices that are a fraction of actual value. This is simply not true. Not even close. Let me explain to you what really happens, as I am involved in these trasactions as much as anybody. By far and away the most common perception people have who inherited a collection of coins is that old coins are valueable, and the older the better. It is true, I nearly lost a deal because I only offered 50 cents for an Indian Cent that was over 100 years old, even though I offered close to MS-65 money for a Saint in an MS-64 holder because it looked PQ. She later returned and sold the collection after getting another bid. A common phrase in this business is, "I just don't think that amount is enough for a coin over 100 years old." The truth is, potential sellers hardly ever perceive that their collection has little value when in actuality it has a lot of value. The seller’s perception is almost always that their collection of coins are old and must be worth a lot, but in reality their collection is not worth much at all. It is our job, as dealers, to explain to them how the value of their coins are determined and let them know their options. To me, that is a service that would be unavailable to them without dealers. Plus, most dealers provide this service for free! I am not saying that your claim of scamming-dealers is untrue. But I think you will unscrupulous folks in just about every profession. >>
I realize that many sellers have an inflated opinion of their coins, however that's no excuse for doing business that way. You CANNOT legally hold yourself out as a professional in any field then tender an offer substantially below market. It's against the law and if the coin industry was like real estate MOST (as in most) coin dealers would be serving time in jail.
How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use. >>
Your quoting of BigBuffaloGuy's post save me the trouble in responding to him, as well as allowing me to wholeheartedly agree with you here.
BigBuffaloGuy, the scenario that you don't mention is the collection that the widow thinks is valuable, but has no idea how valuable, being comprised of many finest knowns and/or coins which, while the sheet says one thing, are extremely fine examples of their type for which the sheet means nothing. Monster toners come to mind in this day and age.
So, she could get fair market value which neglects current market forces for the particular specimens contained therein, and get ripped off to a huge degree..
This is not to say this is happening, just a variation in your scenario and a possiblity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Here's what I believe to be a perfectly legitimate use of "what do you want for it" or, as I sometimes ask "what are you looking to get for it?" .....Often times, for whatever reason, a seller has a completely unrealistic expectatoin/price in mind for a coin or collection. If a would-be buyer is able to discern that with a polite question, he can avoid insulting or offending a seller with what would have been a very fair offer.
I have asked that question of both dealers and collectors, and have often been amazed to learn the prices they had in mind. Rather than upsetting them, I then said "Thanks but that wont work for me" or something like that. >>
Good point, Mark. I stand corrected. Somewhere in my discussion with someone wanting an offer on a collection, I'll ask "Do you have an idea of what it's worth?" And the usual answer is "No". But this question does weed out those who believe that their off-center no date Lincoln cent has to be worth mid-six figures.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I disagree with the tone of some who insinuate that Coin Dealers are any more greedy than you or I. Unfortunately there are some scum bags in the business, they don’t last long and they most all start from the collector ranks, make a few bucks, rent a shop, hang a sign, some put in there time and become good dealers and a occasional one becomes a greedy dirtbag. It does not take long for any seasoned collector or veteran dealer to know who they are. To paint all Coin Dealers with the same brush is nothing more than ignorance.
So far, the despicable acts I hear described of robbing old ladies and such are the results of people that call themselves a dealer or as I define them, Failed wannabees, crooks, dirtbag, fill in the blanks________.
They are not coin dealers.
Want to know what a coin dealer is; somewhere here I made a short definition. Sorry folks, the dirtbag some of you calling dealers as much as they would love to think they are, are not.
Regards to all Brian Kuszmar Second Generation Coin Dealer Lbts. Fla.
Brian Kuszmar Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions? Call anytime 954-493-8811
<< <i>There's a lot of dealers out there who need to be bashed. >>
Allot? Sounds like the similiar brush attorneys get painted with.
Kinda like saying there is allot of Bad Attorneys that need to be bashed.. Well maybe your right. <grin> Sorry I was being ignorant..
Regards to all Brian Kuszmar - Earthman-Killer of shark dealers-Eater of bad apples- Second Generation Coin Dealer in the corner store- Dealer Since 1977-
Brian Kuszmar Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions? Call anytime 954-493-8811
I agree the majority of dealers have no morals and will take advantage of anyone they can. Especially true if you are referring to the corner store guy who depends upon the uninformed walking in. But I would also suggest that the same applies to antique dealers, plumbers, car repair shops, attorneys, investment advisors, collectors and just about all of humanity. Show me any ignorant person who doesn't do their homework and I'll show you someone who is asking to get taken. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.
On the other hand, I would hope that anyone who spends time in this forum is sophisticated enough to walk in to the corner coin shop and pick the guy off easily. That's fair game, right? Most local dealers don't know alot about coins. If you know more than they do use it to your advantage. It's all about knowledge.
There are a lot of respectable professionals in this industry, and just enough in humanity, that do the right thing no matter what. That's how reputations are made.
Don Willis Premium Numismatics, Inc. myurl 800-596-COIN
Comments
pick in Stman.
Camelot
<< <i>Iwog, blast white 67 Bay Bridges don't exist------BigE >>
Which is why I have my blast white 66. But I can wish can't I?
<< <i>The common fallacy people who are not in the coin business have is that widows or next of kin who have inherited a coin collection have no idea of what they have and are willing to sell at prices that are a fraction of actual value. This is simply not true. Not even close.
Let me explain to you what really happens, as I am involved in these trasactions as much as anybody. By far and away the most common perception people have who inherited a collection of coins is that old coins are valueable, and the older the better. It is true, I nearly lost a deal because I only offered 50 cents for an Indian Cent that was over 100 years old, even though I offered close to MS-65 money for a Saint in an MS-64 holder because it looked PQ. She later returned and sold the collection after getting another bid. A common phrase in this business is, "I just don't think that amount is enough for a coin over 100 years old."
The truth is, potential sellers hardly ever perceive that their collection has little value when in actuality it has a lot of value. The seller’s perception is almost always that their collection of coins are old and must be worth a lot, but in reality their collection is not worth much at all. It is our job, as dealers, to explain to them how the value of their coins are determined and let them know their options. To me, that is a service that would be unavailable to them without dealers. Plus, most dealers provide this service for free!
I am not saying that your claim of scamming-dealers is untrue. But I think you will unscrupulous folks in just about every profession. >>
I realize that many sellers have an inflated opinion of their coins, however that's no excuse for doing business that way. You CANNOT legally hold yourself out as a professional in any field then tender an offer substantially below market. It's against the law and if the coin industry was like real estate MOST (as in most) coin dealers would be serving time in jail.
How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use.
<< <i>How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use. >>
Very good point. When I'm looking at a collection, I come up with a number for all of it. I have logic to get me there, but I don't go into the detail if it's not necessary. But lately, with the Internet and a lot of information available, it seems most people do have a value in mind already. Except for the people with the penny that's worth a million dollars because it's 100 years old.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Come on guys--- lets all promise not to pick on those poor little dealer guys for a while... they need a break from our meanness.
Some of you might not know it, but dealers have feelings too.... In fact--they cry more than the average guy...
Just read these boards.....
Here's what I believe to be a perfectly legitimate use of "what do you want for it" or, as I sometimes ask "what are you looking to get for it?" .....Often times, for whatever reason, a seller has a completely unrealistic expectatoin/price in mind for a coin or collection. If a would-be buyer is able to discern that with a polite question, he can avoid insulting or offending a seller with what would have been a very fair offer.
I have asked that question of both dealers and collectors, and have often been amazed to learn the prices they had in mind. Rather than upsetting them, I then said "Thanks but that wont work for me" or something like that.
<< <i>
<< <i>The common fallacy people who are not in the coin business have is that widows or next of kin who have inherited a coin collection have no idea of what they have and are willing to sell at prices that are a fraction of actual value. This is simply not true. Not even close.
Let me explain to you what really happens, as I am involved in these trasactions as much as anybody. By far and away the most common perception people have who inherited a collection of coins is that old coins are valueable, and the older the better. It is true, I nearly lost a deal because I only offered 50 cents for an Indian Cent that was over 100 years old, even though I offered close to MS-65 money for a Saint in an MS-64 holder because it looked PQ. She later returned and sold the collection after getting another bid. A common phrase in this business is, "I just don't think that amount is enough for a coin over 100 years old."
The truth is, potential sellers hardly ever perceive that their collection has little value when in actuality it has a lot of value. The seller’s perception is almost always that their collection of coins are old and must be worth a lot, but in reality their collection is not worth much at all. It is our job, as dealers, to explain to them how the value of their coins are determined and let them know their options. To me, that is a service that would be unavailable to them without dealers. Plus, most dealers provide this service for free!
I am not saying that your claim of scamming-dealers is untrue. But I think you will unscrupulous folks in just about every profession. >>
I realize that many sellers have an inflated opinion of their coins, however that's no excuse for doing business that way. You CANNOT legally hold yourself out as a professional in any field then tender an offer substantially below market. It's against the law and if the coin industry was like real estate MOST (as in most) coin dealers would be serving time in jail.
How about the common phrase of "what do you want for it?" What in hell do you think is being accomplished by asking a widow how much she wants for her husband's coin collection when you know DAMN well she doesn't have a clue??? The only possible purpose for asking a layman this question is an attempted scalping. I know of no other legitimate use. >>
Your quoting of BigBuffaloGuy's post save me the trouble in responding to him, as well as allowing me to wholeheartedly agree with you here.
BigBuffaloGuy, the scenario that you don't mention is the collection that the widow thinks is valuable, but has no idea how valuable, being comprised of many finest knowns and/or coins which, while the sheet says one thing, are extremely fine examples of their type for which the sheet means nothing. Monster toners come to mind in this day and age.
So, she could get fair market value which neglects current market forces for the particular specimens contained therein, and get ripped off to a huge degree..
This is not to say this is happening, just a variation in your scenario and a possiblity
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Here's what I believe to be a perfectly legitimate use of "what do you want for it" or, as I sometimes ask "what are you looking to get for it?" .....Often times, for whatever reason, a seller has a completely unrealistic expectatoin/price in mind for a coin or collection. If a would-be buyer is able to discern that with a polite question, he can avoid insulting or offending a seller with what would have been a very fair offer.
I have asked that question of both dealers and collectors, and have often been amazed to learn the prices they had in mind. Rather than upsetting them, I then said "Thanks but that wont work for me" or something like that. >>
Good point, Mark. I stand corrected. Somewhere in my discussion with someone wanting an offer on a collection, I'll ask "Do you have an idea of what it's worth?" And the usual answer is "No". But this question does weed out those who believe that their off-center no date Lincoln cent has to be worth mid-six figures.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
So far, the despicable acts I hear described of robbing old ladies and such are the results of people that call themselves a dealer or as I define them, Failed wannabees, crooks, dirtbag, fill in the blanks________.
They are not coin dealers.
Want to know what a coin dealer is; somewhere here I made a short definition. Sorry folks, the dirtbag some of you calling dealers as much as they would love to think they are, are not.
Regards to all
Brian Kuszmar
Second Generation Coin Dealer
Lbts. Fla.
Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions?
Call anytime 954-493-8811
<< <i>There's a lot of dealers out there who need to be bashed. >>
Allot? Sounds like the similiar brush attorneys get painted with.
Kinda like saying there is allot of Bad Attorneys that need to be bashed.. Well maybe your right. <grin> Sorry I was being ignorant..
Regards to all
Brian Kuszmar - Earthman-Killer of shark dealers-Eater of bad apples-
Second Generation Coin Dealer in the corner store-
Dealer Since 1977-
Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions?
Call anytime 954-493-8811
On the other hand, I would hope that anyone who spends time in this forum is sophisticated enough to walk in to the corner coin shop and pick the guy off easily. That's fair game, right? Most local dealers don't know alot about coins. If you know more than they do use it to your advantage. It's all about knowledge.
There are a lot of respectable professionals in this industry, and just enough in humanity, that do the right thing no matter what. That's how reputations are made.
Premium Numismatics, Inc.
myurl
800-596-COIN