Norfed coins/liberty dollar update!!!
mach19
Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭✭
Does anyone have these coins in a set? They come in denominations of $1,$2,$5,$10 & $20 and are made of .999 silver.
TIN SOLDIERS & NIXON COMING 
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<< <i>Type in norfed on e/bay. These coins are legal tender. Very nice proof like coins. I have picked up a few. The one & two dollar ones are the size of a dime, the twenty dollar one is the size of a ASE. I thought they were kinda cool. (Diversity)
They are NOT Legal Tender....................
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
As I've commented before, I think they are crap and it's a scam that some try to pass off as legal tender. They are pretty though.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
on some government list of malcontents, misfits
and dangers to the Republic.
Camelot
<< <i>Order some and I believe your name will appear
on some government list of malcontents, misfits
and dangers to the Republic.
What, exactly, defines "legal tender"? Some might say it has to be issued by the US Mint and Congress authorizes it. Well, I guess a merchant doesn't have to accept what we might refer to as "real money". Nothing says they have to take that. They might only take credit card (yes, I know that eventually means "real money"). They might only accept Liberty Dollars. Wouldn't that be their choice? Now a bank won't take Liberty Dollars, that I get.
You would be wrong.
<< <i>"Well, I guess a merchant doesn't have to accept what we might refer to as "real money"."
You would be wrong. >>
I'm not so sure about that. I believe merchants (or anyone, for that matter) can choose the form of payment they are willing to accept, whether it's Liberty Dollars, goats or magic beans. My understanding is that "legal tender" must be accepted for the payment of debts, not necessarily for purchases.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I'm not so sure about that. I believe merchants (or anyone, for that matter) can choose the form of payment they are willing to accept, whether it's Liberty Dollars, goats or magic beans. My understanding is that "legal tender" must be accepted for the payment of debts, not necessarily for purchases. >>
Payment against debts to the Government might make sense.
<< <i>You would be wrong. >>
According to the BEP website, there is no law requiring anyone to accept Legal Tender.
<< <i>
<< <i>You would be wrong. >>
According to the BEP website, there is no law requiring anyone to accept Legal Tender. >>
......except in payment for an existing debt. A retail merchant can require payment in silver certificates if he so desires but I would imagine that his sales would be close to zero.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No tossup regarding legality of Liberty coins
By DAN HERBECK
News Staff Reporter
1/22/2006
Southtowns businessman Daniel Buczek said he has had "no trouble" using Liberty silver dollars to buy coffee, oil filters for his car and other items at a number of area businesses. But when someone in his family tried to use them to buy beer at a Buffalo Sabres game, Buczek and his son wound up in trouble with the law. Buczek, 55, and Shane Buczek, 34, both of Derby, are believed to be the first people to be charged in this region for trying to make purchases with the Liberty dollar, a privately minted $20 coin.
In fact, some businesses in the Southtowns told The Buffalo News they do accept the currency. Liberties, as the coins are called, are viewed by some people as an alternative to the U.S. government's monetary system. The organization that makes Liberties claims that more than $15 million worth are in circulation throughout the nation.
"We weren't trying to break any law," Daniel Buczek said. "We weren't passing counterfeit currency. We use Liberty silver dollars because they are backed by silver, and I believe the American monetary system is going to collapse." According to police, the Buczeks were arrested after they tried to buy beer with $20 Liberties from "numerous" vendors at the Dec. 26 Sabres game against the New York Islanders at HSBC Arena.
Acting on a complaint filed by a security officer at the game, Buffalo police charged the two men with felony counts of criminal possession of a forged instrument and criminal impersonation. A misdemeanor count of harassment was also filed. The two Buczeks deny allegations they pushed and shoved the security officer, Edward M. Cotter, an off-duty Buffalo Police detective. They also deny allegations that Shane Buczek pulled out a badge and falsely identified himself as a federal agent.
Erie County District Attorney Frank J. Clark said the felony charges will be reduced before the case goes to trial at City Court. The trial is tentatively scheduled for Thursday. The two men should not have been charged with felonies, Clark said, but he added his office will pursue charges of attempted petit larceny and misdemeanor criminal impersonation.
"I was investigating complaints made by beer vendors all over the arena," Cotter said. "The vendors said these people were trying to make them accept these silver coins, and getting very pushy about it. They were telling the vendors, "Hey, these coins are worth $100.' "
The Buczeks deny claiming the coins were worth $100. They said they spent 16 hours in jail after their arrests and were briefly questioned as suspected counterfeiters by the U.S. Secret Service. The two Derby men insist they never intended to violate any law. "It was actually my daughter who was trying to buy the beer, but they charged us instead," Daniel Buczek said.
I wonder what happens when silver crosses $20 an ounce? Does the Liberty coin project die or does the guy reduce the weight and keep minting?
ebay
<< <i>Selling 1 ounce silver coins for $20, good work if you can get it.
I wonder what happens when silver crosses $20 an ounce? Does the Liberty coin project die or does the guy reduce the weight and keep minting? >>
No, they will redenominate the coin. This has already happened -- the original one ounce Liberty "coins" had a face value of $10, and were sold for $10 when silver was in the $4-$5 range. When silver started creeping up, they quickly changed the denomination and sale price to $20.
If silver were to go above $20, I suspect they'd change it to $50 or something. It's a scam all around.
He's going to do the hard money cause more harm than good. He should denominate the coins in spacebucks or something then have an exchange rate.
<< <i>So what happens to all the 1 ounce coins that have $10 marked on them? You have to try and convince a merchant that your $10 coin is really worth $20 when it has $12 worth of silver in it? >>
Well, obviously the Norfed guys don't care, since they've already got your money. I suppose from an "investment" point of view the buyer would have made out OK -- they bought at $10 (despite open market silver being around $5), but it's now worth $12 so at least they're in the black.
If I was a merchant, I'd be compelled to honor the face value
<< <i>My money says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." If you are in the process of buying something in a store, you are in effect incurring a debt; thus, they have to take dollars. >>
That's a common misconception. There is no law that requires a business to accept it. That statement means only that you are legally allowed to use it.
Russ, NCNE
Jonathan
<< <i>......except in payment for an existing debt. >>
Even in the case of existing debts. All legal tender means is that the debtor has made a legal attempt to pay the debt. You do not have to accept it, and declining it does NOT eliminate the debt. What it does do is protects the debtor from being sued for non-payment, and prevents the creditor from assessing additional fees for non-payment or late payment. The debtor still must settle his obligation by whatever means the two of you agree upon, but his debt may no longer grow once he has made the legal attempt to pay it.
<< <i>If you tender payment and it is refused, legally the item is yours for free. >>
Not true In this case you are attempting to make a purchase, not incur a debt, but have not done so. Title still is retained by the seller. (An exception would be n the case such as a resturaunt where the product is consumed and can not be returned in new or nearly new condition. In that case a debt has been incured. But they can still refuse legal tender and require you to work off the debt washing dishes.)
<< <i>Additionally, Silver Certificates were effectively recalled back in the early 70s (i.e. they are no longer backed by silver). >>
They weren't recalled, they simply had their silver backing removed. They were in effect converted into non-backed legal tender.
Couldn't walk for a week.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
At the end of the day, we didn't get the sticker for license on the last day possible and my dad threw a frickin fit. I learned an important lesson that day. That not all money is equal and a person can refuse REAL money if they want to.
A side note: An attorney friend of mine had a client that owed more than $20,000 in back alimony/child support. When he lost the case in court and was told he HAD to pay or go to jail, he had the money delivered in a wheelbarrels of coins. The woman refused to accept the money in that form and the client was cited for contempt of court and spent 3 days in jail for his foolishness.
<< <i>These would be fun to own as a set. I don't buy into the whole scam, of course. But I would not mind owning a few as oddities. >>
The scam notwithstanding, the coins themselves are well made. I may have to start trolling eBay for some -- I wouldn't pay much over spot for them, but I'd kind of like to get a set too.
"Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime."
More here:
Link to Hot Items press on US Mint Site
Collectors, if you want 'em buy 'em now. It is looking like the Feds might put a stop to the nonsense scam.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>As they did with "First Strike", the US mint is now speaking out publicly about Norfed coins...
"Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime."
More here:
Link to Hot Items press on US Mint Site
Collectors, if you want 'em buy 'em now. It is looking like the Feds might put a stop to the nonsense scam. >>
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>It was inevitable. There's only room in the country for one currency fraud, and the United States Federal Reserve wants to keep it a monopoly. >>
Zacticaly.............!!!!!!!.......Maybe we can all speak the same language too......Instead of having to waste our money printing ten different languages..
<< <i>As I have mentioned here before, the local government here where I live wil not accept legal tender in payment of taxes. Checks or credit cards only. >>
Now that is messed up. I think I would have to move. Have you ever inquired as to what the reason for this is?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
And what's with your sig line? Nixon's dead.
<< <i>Hey Mach.... why do you keep bumping this thread? Do you have some sort of interest in the promotion of these Liberty Dollars?
And what's with your sig line? Nixon's dead. >>
No Interest & promotions, I just like the coins.
Nixon will be on a coin
That's all
<< <i>Selling 1 ounce silver coins for $20, good work if you can get it.
I wonder what happens when silver crosses $20 an ounce? Does the Liberty coin project die or does the guy reduce the weight and keep minting? >>