There is a need for a price guide for high-grade moderns
lsica
Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭✭
IMHO....
Like them or not, think they're crap or not, point is, people buy and sell them at premiums. Often significant premiums. The kids at either CDN or Numismedia need to start including them in their listings.
Like them or not, think they're crap or not, point is, people buy and sell them at premiums. Often significant premiums. The kids at either CDN or Numismedia need to start including them in their listings.
Philately will get you nowhere....
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morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
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seek out gem specimens for grade submissions. After awhile a truer picture of relative availability of
certain issues will emerge.
Copper-Nickel clad issues will see an increase in collector interest in the future as these series age.
guides. PCGS and Coin Values have been tweeking their guides a little and they
are becoming much more accurate for relative pricing but there are still issues
that are over or under valued.
Until recently these markets were simply stymied by the guides. Coins that
traded for $40 wholesale might list for a couple dollars in the guide. This made
it almost impossible for buyers and sellers to get together unless they were
both knowledgeable. Now the guides are sufficiently accurate that there should
be a tremendous upswing in deals where at least one party is familiar with the
market and where neither is. Since buyers of moderns tend to be younger and
hold coins for the long term this is causing a lot of the cheaper, unslabbable, coins
to disappear from the market. It will probably be a couple years before they're
forced to raise prices but the next time the guides will be far more accurate and
should reflect the long term pricing structure very closely.
It's only been several weeks that both these guides are reasonably accurate
so activity should ratchet up if anyone out there is collecting these coins on a mass
scale.
be mostly just the Ikes and half dollars at this time though.
<< <i>Coin Values (has) been tweeking their guides >>
Really? Coin Values is a reasonable (if infrequent) source for moderns pricing?
It already takes five different issues of the CDN for a complete set, why not a sixth one so they could cover high-grade moderns adequately?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>
<< <i>Coin Values (has) been tweeking their guides >>
Really? Coin Values is a reasonable (if infrequent) source for moderns pricing? >>
I haven't seen the Numismedia guide since they went to subscription so can't comment
on it but all the other guides are pretty much worthless. Krause takes a stab at it but lists
only two grades and lacks accuracy. The Redbook barely tries so this leaves only PCGS and
Coin Values who are trying to give accurate across the board pricing in a "free" format.
While these are not in close agreement with one another and Coin Values makes no at-
tempt to list prices for the highest grades both of these have become useable guides only
recently. The PCGS guide is superios at least for relative pricing and is the only of the two
which lists high grades.
Coin Values is available to a far wider and more diverse audience which includes the general
public. This makes it an important part of the market if not pricing in the market.
A second issue is that the pops are so small on many of the coins worth listing, that each coin has to be valued individually,. There is no generic "average" for the grade coin.
<< <i>One problem is the spread between PCGS coins and everything else. This is true to a lesser extent in other series, but it is over 100% for some moderns. CDN generally doesn't separate PCGS from NGC for the few series where the divergence is relatively wide. It is buyer beware, and let the chips fall in those cases. There is politics involved, and the desire to appear neutral. Not sure if they want to cross that bridge given the low dollar volumes and relatively low percentage of dealers who might want this information. Dealers are the main subscribers.
A second issue is that the pops are so small on many of the coins worth listing, that each coin has to be valued individually,. There is no generic "average" for the grade coin. >>
I know you're right but these problems were all caused by the fact that none of the
guides ever even tried to list modern prices until 2000. Even the Redbook made no
attempt until their 2006 edition. It is the lack of pricing information for nearly two
generations that forced PCGS to develop their own guide and has set back these
guides.
The existence of these guides now is a strong boost to these markets and it's been
only a matter of weeks that the masses have had good pricing information. Certain-
ly there will be more changes as the years go by.
For me, I would like to see listings showing ranges of price. The low range might be identified as a wholesale or price which a dealer would pay you for your coin. The high price would be retail or the price the dealer wants to get for the coin he has to sell. Somewhere in between is the "correct" price for the coin. JMHO. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Another price guide thread. Folks, there is absolutely NO way to produce a price guide that even a majority of collectors will agree with. Do you want a retail guide? Do you want a wholesale guide? How do you price a MS65 toned coin and a MS65 white coin without actually seeing it? A coin YOU own is worth more money than a coin YOU want to buy, right?
For me, I would like to see listings showing ranges of price. The low range might be identified as a wholesale or price which a dealer would pay you for your coin. The high price would be retail or the price the dealer wants to get for the coin he has to sell. Somewhere in between is the "correct" price for the coin. JMHO. Steve
Before 2000 guides listed MS-65 1983-P quarters for less than the wholesale price
of MS-60's. MS-65 Ikes were listed at MS-60 wholesale or a little more. The Redbook
simply listed everything based on the roll price even where rolls weren't available.
Certainly publishers of these lists have myriad obstacles to overcome to print usable
guides but just listing everything for about face value isn't even trying.
I don't mind selling these pieces at the premium prices but whould never pay more than CDN ask plus grading for slabbed 69's or 70's. As far as the slabbed 70 proof gold one oz eagle that realized $36000 at auction recently that guy overpaid big time for an ounce of gold LOL. Does he have any idea how far that huge premium he paid would go with strippers (I've been keeping one in orbit for $800 - $1000 / month, a super 27 yr old blonde - 5 sessions per month so she can feel secure she will make her rent. She even quit the club)? What a fool to pay that much for a $700 coin.....
I once had another dealer sell me an MS 70 gold one ounce eagle for BV plus $5. It was part of a group of slabbed coins he offered me at my table. I flipped it a week later for BV + $200 on ebay with a starting bid of BV. Not a bad deal - I would have never gotten that at a show.
<< <i>Fundamentally, I do not believe moderns in 69 or 70 should be priced at huge premiums as this is essentially how they come from the mint. The PCGS price guide and Coin World Trends have price guides for these but buyers at these prices are probably rarer than the coins themselves.
>>
Many moderns are exceedingly rare in MS-69 and MS-70.
You simply can't make many blanket statements about moderns that are true except
that they aren't as old as classics.
Most of the posts in this thread are in reference to mint state regular issue coins from
1965 to 1998. There are no MS-70's of these and just a few MS-69's. There are also
some modern commems and other such coins that are scarce in MS-70. There are very
collectible coins among those which usually come in high grade as well.
It would be helpful to all these collectors and all these markets if more effort were put
into the guides and there was some sort of listing in the CDN.
Maybe mint state modern commems are available in MS-69 but ordinary circulation strike clad coins AREN'T and are (or will be) worth substantial, sometimes stratospheric, premiums over MS-60/63 specimens.
To those naysayers, please go to the PCGS population reports and take note of the very low pop issues.
Then go out there and search out these gems and get PCGS to agree by slabbing them in MS-67. You'll
find out the reality of the big picture of true availability. I know this market is still in its infancy, but event-
ually it will grow into a more accepted area of numismatics. We need more relevant pricing guides that
are continually evolving as market conditions dictate.
Those who pay attention to it's current state, will report it diligently and subsequently create it.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>No--the worst rip on Planet Earth! >>
Does this apply to all price guides for moderns or has the topic changed?
<< <i>
<< <i>No--the worst rip on Planet Earth! >>
Does this apply to all price guides for moderns or has the topic changed? >>
It applies to high-grade moderns
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No--the worst rip on Planet Earth! >>
Does this apply to all price guides for moderns or has the topic changed? >>
It applies to high-grade moderns >>
somethin' tells me yer just stirring the pot
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No--the worst rip on Planet Earth! >>
Does this apply to all price guides for moderns or has the topic changed? >>
It applies to high-grade moderns >>
Ah, then since it applies to all high grade moderns then it would necessarily apply to
a coin like an MS-64 1971 dime. Here is a coin that can keep you looking for years un-
less you put a lot of effort into it. The odds against getting one in circulation are simply
staggering. If you can find ten or fifteen rolls of these then you should be able to nab
one in this source but finding original rolls of these is exceedingly difficult. These coins
were poorly made and wouldbe hoarders simply saw no need to set aside rolls of coins
that looked like crap. No matter how good your connections are you'd probably have to
make several phone calls to find a roll and even then multiple rolls are improbable.
Almost no one sells any high grade moderns so they are not easily found in slabs. On ebay
there will likely be a few gems and superb gems available because market price is high e-
nough to entice people to slab and sell them but you won't find a nice choice unc.
You can, of course, forego this route altogether and look in mint sets. While very large per-
centages of these sets have been destroyed they are still fairly abundant and it won't
take a great deal of effort to locate a set. More than half of coin shops attempt to keep
one or two of each date mint set in stock. You'll need only about ten or twelve sets to be
confident of getting this high grade modern.
Obviously it would hardly require much of a run on the coin shops to wipe out the total
current supply what with everyone having to hit about ten coin shops just to find this one
coin.
And this high grade modern that is such a ripoff in your book that it exceeds all ripoffs on
the face of the planet. The CDN lists it at twenty two cents!!!
Tom
<< <i>Interesting you mention a 1971 dime in a PCGS MS-64 holder. That is one of the few modern coins I own. I really don't like it and I would probably give it to anyone who asked. Is it really worth more than face? If they are valuable, whom can I trade it for ANY Seated dime in the same condition? Or even a Barber? Not that I am clueless, ok, maybe I am clueless, but what is a 1971 dime in MS-64 worth?
Tom >>
a lifetime of hunting, I'd suspect ! You doing a giveaway ?
<----opens hand for receiving
edit to add: you gotta pay shipping
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
For example, compare prices on a 1954 Lincoln in PCGS MS66RD, with NGC 66RD, with ANACS 66RD and ICG 66RD, you will get four completely different prices. And there are hundreds if not thousands of other examples where this is pertinant.
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>Interesting you mention a 1971 dime in a PCGS MS-64 holder. That is one of the few modern coins I own. I really don't like it and I would probably give it to anyone who asked. Is it really worth more than face? If they are valuable, whom can I trade it for ANY Seated dime in the same condition? Or even a Barber? Not that I am clueless, ok, maybe I am clueless, but what is a 1971 dime in MS-64 worth?
Tom >>
Sorry. I missed this post.
PCGS price guide lists it for $10. That's under the cost of slabbing so obviously the pop
is nearly meaningless. This does happen to be one of those dates that is actually tougher
in the just missed grades than you'd think though, and they aren't plentiful in nice choice
condition. It's even a little tougher in MS-60 than most clad dimes.
The average collector though often is looking for coins in choice condition. Some will concen-
trate on clean surfaces and some on nice full strikes but the '71 usually will miss on both. Add-
itionally many have poor surfaces from planchet blemishes or worn dies. If he is not familiar
with the market then he could look for a long time for this coin. Then when he finally finds a
nice choice coin he is likely to expect to pay 22c for it as the Greysheet indicates. If the dealer
is asking $10 or maybe $40 for a gem he will likely just walk away.
Perhaps they CDN could just price them in Unc, BU, ChBU, and Gem like in the old days with a
notation that coins over twenty or thirty dollars need to be slabbed to bring full value. Most
of the collectors of high grade coins are more aware of the markets anyway and these do not
trade in much volume so there isn't as much need to list them in the Greysheet.