New Purchase: 1883-S NGC AU-55 Prooflike (PL) Morgan Dollar -- How Scarce Is This Coin in PL ??

Stuart · August 29, 2006 12:08PM

This 1883-S NGC AU-55 Prooflike (PL) Morgan Dollar, purchased this evening, is a very uncommon coin to find in any PL grade. I have provided the original seller's photo for your reference, and would appreciate your thoughts about how often or how seldomly we see this coin in any PL grade.

Thanks in advance for your comments!!

1883-S NGC AU-55 Prooflike (PL) Morgan Dollar

Coxe · August 29, 2006 12:11PM

Good one. That is one prooflike date (1921-S too) that I seem to consistently underbid. Have you VAMmed it? There aren't too many varieties represented at PLs and some only as one-sided PL.

Stuart · August 29, 2006 12:36PM

John: In reply to your question, no I have not yet determined the VAM variety of this interesting 1883-S Morgan Dollar.

I just purchased it at auction this evening, and have not yet seen it in person.

Coxe · August 29, 2006 12:55PM

You got it for a good price too, I see, with no competition. I need to look at eBay more often!

ziggy29 · August 29, 2006 12:59PM

Looks like a nice coin and solid for the grade. Good "value" grade for this date.

Oney · August 29, 2006 1:04PM

Very nice coin Stuart. Honestly have never seen one with the PL designation. Congrats!

lava · August 29, 2006 2:03PM

It is a rare coin Stuart. There are a few in ANACS and NGC holders in aupl, but across the board very few in mint state pl. The `83-s au examples tend to have decent mirrors. I think you might be happy with it, although I do not believe I have ever seen this particular coin in person.

HighRelief · August 29, 2006 2:50PM

Nice score Stuart, the 83-S in prooflike is a very rare coin indeed. Lava needs to take a picture of his 61 PL 83-S and show us another one

Stuart · August 29, 2006 10:37PM

Thanks to all for your posts providing some additional background on the scarcity of the 1883-S in Prooflike designation.

I'll be interested in seeing what comments the morning shift has about it.

HighRelief · August 30, 2006 1:10AM

This is my 83-S PL that is showing some spotting on both the obverse and reverse. I am not sure if it is rust from the dies or carbon spotting? The coin shows good reflection in the fields with some moderate frost on the devices.

ABC123 · August 30, 2006 2:58AM

High Relief---That is one Scarce coin, very nice ***

Stuart · August 30, 2006 4:59AM

HighRelief: That's a nice PL 1883-S Morgan Dollar which you have posted.

The spotting that you referred to appears (to me) to be the type of spotting that sometimes develops when a coin has spent some time in a cardboard 2x2 holder after a few small pin holes develop in the clear acetate film that has direct contact with the coin in the holder.

You may also see this type of spot toning develop as the coin begins to retone after a dip. Thanks for sharing your 1883-S with us!!

HighRelief · August 30, 2006 6:31AM

Stuart: The 2X2 cardboard would explain the toning that started around the rim. The pinhole theory in the plastic could be what happened, being exposed to the elements like that.

One thing I did notice was that most of the marks are on the high points of the devices. It looks like maybe something could have been resting on top of the coin at one time, pressing the acetate film against the raised part of the devices? This coin looks original to me, not having that dipped look or anything.

Thank you for your comments and feedback on it.

Stuart · August 30, 2006 10:06AM

Brian: You are welcome!

Coxe · August 30, 2006 10:13AM

<< High Relief---That is one Scarce coin, very nice *** >>

Wrong. That is one Very Rare coin. The 1883-S is one of only a few dates that I do not have in my PL/DMPL Morgan set. They are very rare, often one-sided PL (OK for my VAM side of the set too), and bidding is always (EXCEPT IN THIS CASE) very competitive. I have always underbid this date and 1921-S as PL/DMPL, even with insanely strong bids. This is a date I would care very little if it was ANACS and couldn't cross to the big two.

coinkat · August 30, 2006 10:34AM

There are some real toughies in PL such as 1893, 1903 and 1904

Coxe · August 30, 2006 10:56AM

<< There are some real toughies in PL such as 1893, 1903 and 1904 >>

The toughest relative to regular MS of the dates to me are: 1883-S, 1884-S, 1891-O, 1892-O, 1894, 1895-O, 1896-O, 1896-S, 1897-O, 1901, 1901-S, 1902, 1902-S, 1903-S, 1904, 1904-S, 1921-S. There are a lot that come close too. The 1892-S and 1893-S are absolutely extremely rare. However, due to the mintages, a surprising fraction of the MS ones do evidence some prooflike qualities, though not deep mirrors.

Stuart · August 30, 2006 12:11PM

John: Thanks for your informative posts on this thread.

I've also got an 1892-O Morgan in AU-58 (Slider) DMPL/PL (in 3rd world holder) that I'll have to photograph and share with you and others on the Forum in the near future.

I may try to get it certified by NGC because it will likely grade as AU-58, unless I get lucky and it makes a low mint state market grade.

roadrunner · August 30, 2006 1:00PM

About a year ago a friend picked up a bunch of scarce PL/DMPLs
in ANACS holders. They were a nice group with an 1883-s in
MS63PL. As I recall the 83-s have a near DMPL on one side but the rev might have only been semi-PL. They were sort of difficult to move in these holders. I remember the 1898 UDM ANACS MS66 because the mirrors were > 12" deep. It looked nicer than most proofs except for the strike. Because of one tiny scuff in the obv field it was not a no brainer cross. Still, Heritage ended up buying the coin for a strong price. One of very few DMPL coins that I ever really liked.

roadrunner

Coxe · August 30, 2006 1:22PM

Old ANACS UDMs represent some wonderful coins and great values as long as another collectors with a good eye doesn't see them. I have a couple. The unofrtunate thing for those super deep mirrors is they seem to highlight every trivial tick, giving the crossing TPG more reasons to reject. Personally, I would rather keep mine in the ANACS UDM than get it in a PCGS DMPL, even at the same numerical grade.

lava · August 30, 2006 1:43PM

<< Nice score Stuart, the 83-S in prooflike is a very rare coin indeed. Lava needs to take a picture of his 61 PL 83-S and show us another one

>>

I should photograph a lot of my coins, but I keep putting it off, along with many other things, like using free submissions. I actually had a bunch expire on me. Oh well, I am having a difficult time finding anything that interests me these days. Upgrading is tough.

Coxe · August 30, 2006 2:13PM

<< 

<< Nice score Stuart, the 83-S in prooflike is a very rare coin indeed. Lava needs to take a picture of his 61 PL 83-S and show us another one

>>

I should photograph a lot of my coins, but I keep putting it off, along with many other things, like using free submissions. I actually had a bunch expire on me. Oh well, I am having a difficult time finding anything that interests me these days. Upgrading is tough. >>

Yeah, it is hard now with scant few better coins out there.

I composed an image of about three-fourths of my PL/DMPL collection in this thread from images I had on my PC. Someday, I should do the rest. Not sure about all the VAMs though as a 100 pixel wide shot of the slab obverse doesn't capture much of it. It was an eye-opener to see even this fraction assembled in one shot.

lava · August 30, 2006 2:34PM

Love that picture John.

Of the dates you mentioned as being difficult to find, I would say the `93-s, the `01, the `03-s and the `04-s are the most difficult. Many of the others can be found in NGC or ANACS holders in aupl, although I sure don't see them as often as I sued to see them. Over the years I'd pick them up if the mirrors looked good and the price was not too high, so I have a small hoard on a lot of these. I would say the `84-s is considerably more difficult than the `83-s in pl, and the `84-s pl examples I have seen are very baggy.

Love the pls and dmpls. I am long overdue to add one to my collection.

Coxe · August 30, 2006 2:49PM

I thnk the 04 is a little more difficult than the 04-S, but that is splitting hairs. The 84-S is in a league with few peers. The are almost all AU to MS62 and PL is a stretch for them, DMPL is ann impossibility. Would have liked to upgrade my 1892-S AU55PL with the Denver piece, but my six-figure bid was reserved for actually seeing the piece and we turned around halfway to Denver. Let Ash get that one. I hope to have an 1893-S PL soon. The 83-S and 21-S will come in time. The rest are all doable practically anytime, even the overrated 89-CC.

sweetwilliet · August 30, 2006 10:06PM

Very nice, I'm jealous. There are a lot of scarce prooflikes, and this is definitely one of them. I'll add 1886-o to the list above. Also, I have been searching for a plain ole 1921 pl, and haven't found one in a pcgs holder yet. Back to your coin, post a good pic when you get it, sometimes the auction pictures don't do the coin justice.

Stuart · August 31, 2006 10:44PM

Thanks sweetwilliet!!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · September 1, 2006 3:25AM

These coins are disgustingly common and overpriced in AU grades, but finding a PL pieces is a rare find and certainly worth the money

Stuart · September 1, 2006 8:29AM

GoldenEyeNumismatics: Thanks for your post!!

HighRelief · September 1, 2006 9:22AM

<< Old ANACS UDMs represent some wonderful coins and great values as long as another collectors with a good eye doesn't see them. I have a couple. Personally, I would rather keep mine in the ANACS UDM than get it in a PCGS DMPL, even at the same numerical grade. >>

The UDM's definitely are the caviar of the Dimples, showing 12+ mirrored fields with striking clarity. This MS64 UDM 1887 S/S Vam 2 Top 100 is one of the nicest DMPL's in my collection. Keeping them in the Anacs UDM holder is the way to hold on to these rare ladies.

New Purchase: 1883-S NGC AU-55 Prooflike (PL) Morgan Dollar -- How Scarce Is This Coin in PL ??

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