Isn't that part of a famous hoard, and they all had that E on it? I think I read about it being found by a metal detectorist in a Treasure Hunting book. They were buried in the woods in like, PA I think. I don't have the book.
-Amanda
EDIT- I think the hoard I'm thinking of was half dollars.
<< <i>I wouldn't think these could be slabbed. Teaparty >>
IIRC, they were created in the Mint while the coin was still on the die. E, L and R. Nobody knows for certain why, but speculation is die cant - even, left or right.
<< <i>I wouldn't think these could be slabbed. Teaparty >>
They were created in the Mint while the coin was still on the die. E, L and R. Nobody knows for certain why, but speculation is die cant - even, left or right. >>
The question as to the origin of the counterstamped Bust quarters remains unanswered, but I think there are a few details that have been sufficiently researched to be considered resolved. Several recent articles have appeared in the John Reich Journal, quarterly journal of the John Reich Collectors Society which delineate the diversity of opinion on these interesting quarter dollars.
It is my undertsanding that all known examples of the counterstamped Bust quarters are on quarters dated 1815 and 1825, although the reasons for this are not completely understood. Also, despite rumors to the contrary, the only counterstamps known are E and L; there are no known examples with the R counterstamp, although I had also thought that there were such examples. Also, all known examples have the counterstamp in precisely the same position, above the cap. It is widely believed that the counterstamps were punched into the quarters after they left the Mint, despite an ongoing rumor that they must have been counterstamped while still in the reverse die, as there is no evidence of crushing of details on the reverse. Actually, there is evidence of crushing of the details on the reverse on many examples, perhaps consistent with placing the quarter on a piece of leather while the counterstamp was being punched.
Perhaps we will never know the origin of these interesting counterstamped quarters, but anyone interested in learning more about them is encouraged to join the JRCS, and request back issues of the JR Journal containing some well researched articles on the subject.
They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
I have owned an 1815 "E" in MS 66(NGC) for over 14 years. It is a fab coin, and it is a permanent part of my bust collection.
PCGS does not certify these rarities, as there is no concrete information on the origin of the counterstamp. But it is a coin with a different history that may be revealed ( for certain) one day.
In the meantime, it certainly is fun to own such a mysterious date.
There has been plenty of speculation and debate about these, especially in the JRCS, but I don't think we will ever know why or where these were made unless some serious new evidence turns up.
MrHalfDime gave some very good information on the counterstamped quarters, and I also recommend interested collectors join the John Reich Society and order the back issue covering this topic extensively.
My personal opinion is that the counterstamped quarters are damaged, and that NGC should not be encapsulating them. If NGC wanted to start encapsulating other counterstamped issues, I would be happy. No reason to encapsulate only the quarter counterstamps.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
MrHalfDime has summed up the situation nicely. I certainly agree on the value of the John Reich Collectors SOciety (JRCS) and their subgroup the Bust Quarter Collectors Society (BQCS). I'll add a few details: The "L" counterstamps all appear to be above the L of LIBERTY, while the "E" counterstamps appear above the E of LIBERTY. All L's and E's have the same typeface and size. The 1825 quarters are all the 1825/3 variety; the Browning book claims some are the 1825/4 variety but this appears to be incorrect. The scarcest one seems to be the 1825 "L", then the 1825 "E", then the 1815 "L", then the 1815 "E". Most of the coins are Unc. or AU and many have been cleaned, but a VF and a Good are known to me, and there are probably some others around. The coins used to trade at a discount because the counterstamps were considered damage, but now they trade at a premium, probably because there are many Bust Quarter collectors who are trying to include them in their sets. I'm looking for an 1825/3 "E", PM me if you have one for sale!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Having researched the E & L quarters for over 30 years, I was fortunate to finally find some U S Mint documentation to valiadate the story for their creation.
The complex story, along with all of the first year's auction listings (1881 & 1882) will be presented in my Henry Voigt book, which is scheduled for release at the 2007 ANA.
For those interested, I firmly believe, based on evidence found in the National Archives, that the "E" signifies "Extra", while the "L" stands for "Louisianna" which is where most of the 1815 quarters went.
The complete story will explain it.
PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
Comments
-Amanda
EDIT- I think the hoard I'm thinking of was half dollars.
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>I wouldn't think these could be slabbed. Teaparty >>
IIRC, they were created in the Mint while the coin was still on the die. E, L and R. Nobody knows for certain why, but speculation is die cant - even, left or right.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't think these could be slabbed. Teaparty >>
They were created in the Mint while the coin was still on the die. E, L and R. Nobody knows for certain why, but speculation is die cant - even, left or right. >>
Thanks for the information.
It is my undertsanding that all known examples of the counterstamped Bust quarters are on quarters dated 1815 and 1825, although the reasons for this are not completely understood. Also, despite rumors to the contrary, the only counterstamps known are E and L; there are no known examples with the R counterstamp, although I had also thought that there were such examples. Also, all known examples have the counterstamp in precisely the same position, above the cap. It is widely believed that the counterstamps were punched into the quarters after they left the Mint, despite an ongoing rumor that they must have been counterstamped while still in the reverse die, as there is no evidence of crushing of details on the reverse. Actually, there is evidence of crushing of the details on the reverse on many examples, perhaps consistent with placing the quarter on a piece of leather while the counterstamp was being punched.
Perhaps we will never know the origin of these interesting counterstamped quarters, but anyone interested in learning more about them is encouraged to join the JRCS, and request back issues of the JR Journal containing some well researched articles on the subject.
PCGS does not certify these rarities, as there is no concrete information on the origin of the counterstamp. But it is a coin with a different history that may be revealed ( for certain) one day.
In the meantime, it certainly is fun to own such a mysterious date.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My personal opinion is that the counterstamped quarters are damaged, and that NGC should not be encapsulating them. If NGC wanted to start encapsulating other counterstamped issues, I would be happy. No reason to encapsulate only the quarter counterstamps.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Having researched the E & L quarters for over 30 years, I was fortunate to finally find some U S Mint documentation to valiadate the story for their creation.
The complex story, along with all of the first year's auction listings (1881 & 1882) will be presented in my Henry Voigt book, which is scheduled for release at the 2007 ANA.
For those interested, I firmly believe, based on evidence found in the National Archives, that the "E" signifies "Extra", while the "L" stands for "Louisianna" which is where most of the 1815 quarters went.
The complete story will explain it.