The 10 1933 Double Eagles
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
I'm confused with why the treasury decided to display them at Denver.
Is the US government genuinely interested in showing them just for their numismatic rarity and intrigue??? or is the government using them as a publicity stunt? When the US seized these 10 specimens I was under the impression that they would immidiately be melted... after all, all US gold coins "without collector value" had been recalled in the 1930's and this legislation is still is effect today. Since these coins had never been released... they counted as being stolen as well as non-collectable (if something isn't released then it can't be collectable). I was glad that I had a chance to see these coins in Denver... however I think the treasury is bending the rules by not destroying them. These coins should have been melted with the rest of the 1933 Double Eagles, so should the fact that these coins were "turned in" 70 years after most of the meltings exempt them from the legislation still in effect today? The government followed the law by confiscating these coins, so why are they NOT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN LAWS by not melting these coins? It does not make sense.
I'm looking for your opinions... do you believe the government is using the coins to get attention? Or do you think they are genuinely interested in sharing them with the numismatic world? Do you think they will melt the coins in the near future?
Is the US government genuinely interested in showing them just for their numismatic rarity and intrigue??? or is the government using them as a publicity stunt? When the US seized these 10 specimens I was under the impression that they would immidiately be melted... after all, all US gold coins "without collector value" had been recalled in the 1930's and this legislation is still is effect today. Since these coins had never been released... they counted as being stolen as well as non-collectable (if something isn't released then it can't be collectable). I was glad that I had a chance to see these coins in Denver... however I think the treasury is bending the rules by not destroying them. These coins should have been melted with the rest of the 1933 Double Eagles, so should the fact that these coins were "turned in" 70 years after most of the meltings exempt them from the legislation still in effect today? The government followed the law by confiscating these coins, so why are they NOT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN LAWS by not melting these coins? It does not make sense.
I'm looking for your opinions... do you believe the government is using the coins to get attention? Or do you think they are genuinely interested in sharing them with the numismatic world? Do you think they will melt the coins in the near future?
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Comments
The prominent display in Denver indicates serious recognition of the coins historic importance. I do not believe the US government has any intention of melting them. I doubt we the people would allow their melting, in this day and age.
What surprises me is the pseudo arrogance of their display, considering it's not yet been established who the rightful owners are. My impression has been that the family that turned them in has every intention of challenging the feds to get them back.
KJ
<< <i>The prominent display in Denver indicates serious recognition of the coins historic importance. I do not believe the US government has any intention of melting them. I doubt we the people would allow their melting, in this day and age.
What surprises me is the pseudo arrogance of their display, considering it's not yet been established who the rightful owners are. My impression has been that the family that turned them in has every intention of challenging the feds to get them back.
KJ >>
Although I am a fan of the coins, the rightful owner is the treasury, and the lawful thing for the treasury to do is melt the coins. I am not saying that I think they will or that I want them to (which I don't). I am merely saying that not melting them is violating the law.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
I think they will just continue to show them until either legislation allows them to be sold at public auction or some legal action forces them to be returned to the family that initially requested authenticity verification. They didn't appropriate them after all, somebody else did, they just ended up with them!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Intelligent post, GoldenEye. >>
Mom... must you even patrol my activities on the PCGS forum?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
These will never be melted, and they will never be returned to the family that turned them in. I believe they will end up in the Smithsonian as part of the permanent collection. As for the family that turned them in, at best they will receive 10 of the new Buffalos. (I seem to recall that the weight of the 1933s that were melted was equal to all the 1933s minted, so there were "trades" being made, just not legal trades.)
I still think that.
If I was the cat that shelled out 7 or 8 mil for the one, I would not be too happy.
<< <i> My initial thought was "Big Frickin Deal". >>
I was more impressed by the big brick of 90% gold, 10% silver. It came with the original paperwork including a hand-written assay and assignment of value. That was cool!
It took what, 6 years, for the legality of the previous eagle to be determined. After several years of preparing for trial, they compromised, the government insisted that ownership was always their's, but would sell the coin and split the baby. Both sides knew they had strengths and weaknesses to their case after more than 6 decades had passed.
A weakness for the government last time was that the government had OK'd its export. This time, the family doesn't have to prove how they got the eagles, but the government has the burden to prove they were never authorized to release. Saying "we looked all over and couldn't find any records of their release" may not convince the judge, since many of the Mint's records are less than complete from that time period.
Even if you find some correspondence, if you can't produce the author in court, I believe that is considered heresay and not admissable.
Was it illegal for someone to exchange worn gold double eagles for nice shiny ones? After all, they were running out of room to store the 450,000 1933's already minted. We can look back and say they should have done this or that, but in the Mint cashier's mind, double eagles are double eagles and maybe a Philadelphia jeweler needed new ones for a nice necklace he was making.
The current double eagles were found in the jeweler's store in 2004. They had been there all the time. The family decided to do some housekeeping after the first one sold for $7 mil. I see another compromise in the making. The family's attorney did not take this case for charity. The govenment will probably keep possession, pay the family a finders' fee (major $$$$) and keep their promise that there is only one legal 1933 double eagle.
Until the next one is made public.....
Joe
<< <i>My guess is they will cut a deal with the person who paid $7 million for one. There is no way a good politican will let money like this sit around. >>
Even if they could get $7 mil a pop $70 mil is chump change to the Guvmint. I bet they spend more than that on TP every year.