For those who hate "dipped" coins.....

RWB · August 18, 2006 12:52PM

While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room. Standing at one of the sinks were two men in white shirts and ties. They were hunched over the sink with a pile of paper towels to one side and a jar of blue "gel" on the other. As I pretended to wash my hands, I noticed them carefully dipping several spottily-toned coins, then rinsing them off, drying them with the paper towels and putting the now-white pieces back in their flips.

Maybe next show, they will blatantly set up their dip tank at the registration desk!

I won't name the dealer, so don't ask.

zeus135 · August 18, 2006 12:54PM

You shoulda smacked 'em in the back of their heads, just for basic principle.

TwoSides2aCoin · August 18, 2006 12:56PM

well at least you only saw them playing with their orbs. It coulda been worse

Leiana · August 18, 2006 1:11PM

Another good reason to not go into the men's room!

-Amanda

TomB · August 18, 2006 1:19PM

That's okay. I've seen dealers do this by partially ducking behind their table while at the show and dipping the coins right there on the bourse.

notwilight · August 18, 2006 1:27PM

Maybe these were buyers who couldn't wait to get home to remove that that ugly tarnish that is euphamisticly referred to as "toning".

-Jerry

NumisOxide · August 18, 2006 1:31PM

Wow, those guys must of been desperate. Another sad example of a dip and flip.

tsacch · August 18, 2006 1:40PM

OUT THEM!!!!

WTCG · August 18, 2006 1:58PM

<< While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room. Standing at one of the sinks were two men in white shirts and ties. They were hunched over the sink with a pile of paper towels to one side and a jar of blue "gel" on the other. As I pretended to wash my hands, I noticed them carefully dipping several spottily-toned coins, then rinsing them off, drying them with the paper towels and putting the now-white pieces back in their flips.

Maybe next show, they will blatantly set up their dip tank at the registration desk!

I won't name the dealer, so don't ask. >>

At the Baltimore show you can do all that in privacy since there is the unisex room that locks from the inside. Several dealers consider that restroom their makeshift laboratory.

Outing those dealers won't acheive anything since there are quite a few dealers who dip coins in the restroom.

majorbigtime · August 18, 2006 2:20PM

<< While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room....

Maybe next show, they will blatantly set up their dip tank at the registration desk!

I won't name the dealer, so don't ask. >>

Do they get a premimum for the Chithouse dips?

Oldnewbie · August 18, 2006 3:04PM

If it's true, out them.

<< 

<< While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room. Standing at one of the sinks were two men in white shirts and ties. They were hunched over the sink with a pile of paper towels to one side and a jar of blue "gel" on the other. As I pretended to wash my hands, I noticed them carefully dipping several spottily-toned coins, then rinsing them off, drying them with the paper towels and putting the now-white pieces back in their flips.

Maybe next show, they will blatantly set up their dip tank at the registration desk!

I won't name the dealer, so don't ask. >>

At the Baltimore show you can do all that in privacy since there is the unisex room that locks from the inside. Several dealers consider that restroom their makeshift laboratory.

Outing those dealers won't acheive anything since there are quite a few dealers who dip coins in the restroom. >>

stman · August 18, 2006 3:15PM

<< While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room. Standing at one of the sinks were two men in white shirts and ties. They were hunched over the sink with a pile of paper towels to one side and a jar of blue "gel" on the other. As I pretended to wash my hands, I noticed them carefully dipping several spottily-toned coins >>

OK, so you went to use the restroom and "Pretended" to wash your hands. Ummm, OK, got that one.

And did you think the dealers were washing their hands?

D · August 18, 2006 4:18PM

<< While attending the ANA convention today, I went to use the Men's Room. Standing at one of the sinks were two men in white shirts and ties. They were hunched over the sink with a pile of paper towels to one side and a jar of blue "gel" on the other. As I pretended to wash my hands, I noticed them carefully dipping several spottily-toned coins, then rinsing them off, drying them with the paper towels and putting the now-white pieces back in their flips.

Maybe next show, they will blatantly set up their dip tank at the registration desk!

I won't name the dealer, so don't ask. >>

The post would be highly enlightening and helpful if people knew who the dealer was.

It's funny how fast we name Ebayers though.

-Daniel

Bochiman · August 18, 2006 4:22PM

I would have to agree.....even if there are many more, if people did start naming them, it would be better for the hobby, but I guess people are scared.

stman · August 18, 2006 4:32PM

And then, they send these to the slab farms, email one of you on the boards that they ran into a "Fresh" deal and you are special and get first shot. Hahaha

aficionado · August 18, 2006 5:06PM

I would never trust a dealer. If you don't ask the right questions, you'll never get an answer.

ALWAYS ask if the coin has been altered in anyway.

PerryHall · August 18, 2006 10:02PM

If the toning was ugly and spotty, how many forum members would buy them? These dealers are in the business to sell coins and these coins would be unsaleable without the dip. These dealers wouldn't dip coins with halfway decent toning since they know collectors want original coins but these same collectors also want nice eye appeal. Some original coins are downright ugly and no one will buy them unless they are dipped. I would like some real world dealers to tell us how they handle the coins with really ugly toning which they may buy as part of an accumilation or a collection.

IGWT · August 18, 2006 10:09PM

Does it take two to dip a coin in a public bathroom?

It would seem so much more acceptable if they were wearing laboratory gowns and operating in a sterile environment.

DNADave · August 18, 2006 10:36PM

Thats nothing, I once had a dealer dip the 1923 Peace Dollar I had just bought. Proclaiming as he gave it to me..."Now it looks better"

MrSpud · August 18, 2006 10:45PM

A while back I witnessed a similar incident at the Whitman show in Atlanta. Only it was an older Boy Scout teaching two young Scouts how to dip coins in Jewelluster in the Restroom. I later saw the older Scout behind a booth on the Bourse helping to sell coins at that booth. I mentioned it here on the forums and I said it was an Eagle Scout teaching the young scouts (I don't know much about scouting and assumed a Scout that old was called an Eagle Scout, he looked to be about 16 or 17 years old) and got angry responses saying I didn't know what I was talking about because all Eagle Scouts are trustworthy and honest. I was taught that he could have just ben an older Scout that never made it to "Eagle" status and that in the future I am supposed to check any Dipping Instructors clothing for an Eagle Badge before makimg such a horrible accusation because it is obviously much better for some reason if the Dipping teacher wasn't an Eagle but just a regular old Scout (something about President Ford). Nonetheless, an Older uniformed Scout was teaching young uniformed scouts how to dip coins in the Men's room.

max911 · August 19, 2006 12:03AM

These reports are very disturbing because the solution is potentially carcinogenic. Please do not do this in a public restroom and without gloves !

LanLord · August 19, 2006 12:14AM

I really don't see what good it would do to name them! Afterall, there are plenty of people here on the boards that state their desire of clean white coins. They exist out there, it's simply a matter of fact, not all people have the same taste. The only thing naming them does is satisfy people's need for gossip.

Barry · August 19, 2006 12:29AM

I don't see the point in naming them. What difference will it make?

Did you forget there's a major grading service that advertises its services as a coin dipper.

roadrunner · August 19, 2006 1:11AM

Not all are ugly by any stretch. As I mentioned in the ANA show
thread I sold a rarer date (3rd finest known for date/mint) seated coin at the show this week. The coin was orig in an OGH PCGS plastic as MS64. It was a lovely coin with pretty colors and full luster.
I felt it was borderline 65 but a few tries to PCGS and NGC kept coming back 64. The new owner must have used this same bathroom as the coin was cracked and dipped immediately and resubmitted at the show. I'll keep a look out to see if the coin upgrades to 65. That would be a shame imo. It was already a shame that one of very few nice/orig looking better date seated coins is gone. How many rarer dates in UNC do you see with NICE color anymore? If the services award the 65 grade, then the games continue.

roadrunner

zzzz · August 19, 2006 1:17AM

<< Another good reason to not go into the men's room! >>

I agree Amanda ... It can be a yucky place

<< Some original coins are downright ugly and no one will buy them unless they are dipped. >>

Ohhh please ... Who are you kidding ... Even the ugliest coin will find a home ....

<< These dealers are in the business to sell coins and these coins would be unsaleable without the dip. >>

Ohhhh BOO HOO the poor dealers are only doing the hobby a service and should be appreciated as such

<< I really don't see what good it would do to name them! Afterall, there are plenty of people here on the boards that state their desire of clean white coins. They exist out there, it's simply a matter of fact, not all people have the same taste. The only thing naming them does is satisfy people's need for gossip. >>

Another person who thinks the dealers are providing a needed service. If a collector wants white coins and wants to dip for their own collection fine. When a dealer does so just for financil gain ... shame on him ....

<< I don't see the point in naming them. What difference will it make? >>

The point is that dealers should be held at a higher level. Do you really think the dealer would say he just dipped that coin? Do you think the dealer would tell you the truth even if you point blank asked him?

Yes, I for one would like to know so I can stay away from that dealer or any dealer that knowingly corrupts this hobby. As like eBay I want these dealers on my DO NOT BUY FROM list.

if you don't want to OUT this dealer
1. You should never had started this post
2. I never want to see another post on an eBay scammer

PerryHall · August 19, 2006 2:26AM

<< Not all are ugly by any stretch. As I mentioned in the ANA show
thread I sold a rarer date (3rd finest known for date/mint) seated coin at the show this week. The coin was orig in an OGH PCGS plastic as MS64. It was a lovely coin with pretty colors and full luster.
I felt it was borderline 65 but a few tries to PCGS and NGC kept coming back 64. The new owner must have used this same bathroom as the coin was cracked and dipped immediately and resubmitted at the show. I'll keep a look out to see if the coin upgrades to 65. That would be a shame imo. It was already a shame that one of very few nice/orig looking better date seated coins is gone. How many rarer dates in UNC do you see with NICE color anymore? If the services award the 65 grade, then the games continue.

roadrunner >>

The shame is that the top grading services continue to reward the coin dippers with upgrades. They are a big part of the problem.

Barry · August 19, 2006 2:48AM

<>

The point is that dealers should be held at a higher level. Do you really think the dealer would say he just dipped that coin? Do you think the dealer would tell you the truth even if you point blank asked him?

You should take off those rose colored glasses.

What kind of higher level? The ethics stamp of approval of being ANA members? Come on...

Most dealers are nothing more than salesman who care nothing about coins other than being product to sell to make a living. Note, I said most. There are clearly some dealers who care very much about coins, several of whom are on this board (and that's probably why they are here - why else would they put up with the abuse they sometimes receive.) There also are some dealers who have marketed themselves well and created the aura of caring about the coins they sell, but occasionally get exposed for what they really are when before and after pictures are posted.

Don't ever forget caveat emptor!

Leiana · August 19, 2006 2:52AM

<< You should take off those rose colored glasses. >>

I think my rose colored glasses are permanently affixed.

-Amanda

RYK · August 19, 2006 2:58AM

Most dealers are nothing more than salesman who care nothing about coins other than being product to sell to make a living. Note, I said most. There are clearly some dealers who care very much about coins, several of whom are on this board (and that's probably why they are here - why else would they put up with the abuse they sometimes receive.)

Ain't that the truth. It's not hard to distinguish those who care from those who will sell anything for a buck.

Russ · August 19, 2006 3:08AM

The method described by the OP is going to result in coins that will turn to crap down the road. Simply rinsing in water does not properly neutralize the acids in the dip.

Russ, NCNE

RYK · August 19, 2006 3:17AM

The method described by the OP is going to result in coins that will turn to crap down the road. Simply rinsing in water does not properly neutralize the acids in the dip.

I do not know anything about dipping, but I suspect that the dippers are not concerned about what happens "down the road", so long as the coin gets sold before that time.

mcheath · August 19, 2006 3:28AM

i dont want coins that will turn to crap down the road so out them.

mcheath · August 19, 2006 3:30AM

if not what was the purpose of this thread, a show report, a scenic map of denver, i dont get it.

SamByrd · August 19, 2006 4:19AM

who cars if they were dipping a coin, dipping is common and most morgans and bright older silver has been dipped. What I would care about is the careless way it was done without stabilizing the coin and yes it might turn into a damaged ugly coin, often times perminent, that aspect is unethical totaly in my opinion.

ANACONDA · August 19, 2006 4:31AM

While I don't dip coins, some coins need to be dipped.

PerryHall · August 19, 2006 4:49AM

<< While I don't dip coins, some coins need to be dipped. >>

frankieboywonder · August 19, 2006 9:37AM

I dip my potato chips!!

TwoSides2aCoin · August 19, 2006 9:48AM

The moral of the story is :

If you see two men playing with something round and hard in the bathroom...

RUN !

originalisbest · August 19, 2006 9:55AM

That's a shame about that Seated, roadrunner. Truly original Seated material is scarce enough, to strip it in "search of" that bump in grade. Grrrr!

RYK · August 19, 2006 11:14AM

While I don't dip coins, some coins need to be dipped.

While that may be true, I would rather that a collector made this decision, one who has the best interests of the coin in mind, rather than the crackout artist, who is only interested in the profit potential.

Longacre · August 19, 2006 12:12PM

No big deal. I don't even want to tell you what I walked in on at the men's room in Grand Central Terminal last year when I went to the NY Invitational Show.

intocoins · August 20, 2006 5:30AM

There are very many coins that actually benefit from a good dip and also look better. I don't see the big deal here, no offense.

topstuf · August 20, 2006 6:06AM

I went to the men's room at the old Jack Tar show In SF. Yeah, it had a "Danger, WET FLOOR....PISO MOJADO" cone. So what? I'll tellya so what. A guy was CLEANING the room.

But...

It wasn't a .........GUY.

Danged if she didn't LOOK like one. Boy did she get pissed. Spose I shud use a different term.

topstuf · August 20, 2006 6:14AM

Should have seen this one before dipping. Ugly blotchy toning. BROWN ugly blotchy toning.

Leiana · August 20, 2006 6:16AM

<< Should have seen this one before dipping. Ugly blotchy toning. BROWN ugly blotchy toning.

>>

The only problem I have with that coin is that it looks like it was made yesterday, not in 1871.

-Amanda

ziggy29 · August 20, 2006 6:40AM

<< The only problem I have with that coin is that it looks like it was made yesterday, not in 1871. >>

You're right, but there are still a few "original" butt-ugly toned coins out there. They don't all tone in even, light colors or look like the rainbow. Some of them look like my cat threw up on them and it was allowed to burn into the coin for a decade or more.

I don't think you'll find too many serious collectors any more who would prefer a dipped "blast white" old coin over an *attractive* original coin. But at least a few of them look horrible, and because turning back time and changing their storage conditions isn't an option, a light dipping is occasionally the lesser of two evils.

mozin · August 20, 2006 6:54AM

What's the fuss all about?

The dealer was dipping his own coin. He can do with it as he likes.

stman · August 20, 2006 7:09AM

I don't think the dipping was such an issue as to the manor and place where it was done. I can just see the sweat dripping from their foreheads and their hands shaking with greed. There is a time and a place for most things. And dealers wonder why folks think the way they often do of them. Then other dealers stick up for them and there ya have it. Just like at shows you'll see the same ( or different dealers) cracking their coins and the plastic flying around the bourse floor. Last ANA in SF I was stepping on it constantly. Yeah, these are all the "fresh" deals I suppose!! Hahaha

GoldenEyeNumismatics · August 20, 2006 3:35PM

As immoral as some consider it, dipping is rather common amongst dealers and some collectors. If done properly, it can improve coins significantly.

A lot of coin series wouldn't even be possible to find blast white without dipping. For example, blast white BU Seated Liberty Dollars are 99% of the time dipped. A 150 year old silver coin simply ins't going to go that long without toning, and a proper dip and remove that tone.

BlindedByEgo · August 20, 2006 4:04PM

[outrage][minor jealousy]What makes me sick is the tap water and paper towel thing. Those coins shouldn't by all rights EVER make it into a PCGS or NGC holder with dip residue and lint/ hairlines on them.[/outrage][/minor jealousy]

[sarcasm]Oh, now I get it - the dealers will sell them as raw BU's to the unsuspecting... In that case, never mind. It's OK.[/sarcasm]

[irony]Who knew... Greed, lies and misrepresentation at a coin show[/irony]

For those who hate "dipped" coins.....

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For those who hate &quot;dipped&quot; coins.....

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For those who hate "dipped" coins.....