I've been "BAMBOOZELED" by a con artist
Oldgrump
Posts: 119 ✭✭
Hi Everyone,
Sorry to bring my troubles here but ya'll are all I got. I need some help/advice on what to do next. I apoligize for not contributing anymore than I have but guite honestly, I'm still learning and haven't had a lot to offer/contribute to the coin god's that reside here. I promise to do better in the future
.Perhaps this will be a small contibution and spare someone else the pain.
I have been selling off some extra's(cleaning house) that I have accumulated over the years on the bay recently and have had a lot of fun doing it; until now
Isold this set(item#160007597070),sorry for not providing a link, I'm computer illiterate, to this guy and after no payment or any kind of email correspondence I sent him 2 reminder notes that he won the auction. People sometime forget right? Well a few days latter it becomes obvious that he has no intentions of paying as the negatives start to accumulate in his feedback. So, wanting to do the right thing, I filled a none paying bidder claim and left the guy a negative feedback. I did so knowing full well that I would get one in return but I felt like I had to do it. Two days latter I get a payment though paypal.
Now this is where I really screwed up. I'm thinking everything is cool so I ship out the set the next day(monday evening). I insured it but that is all. I meant to send w/delivery confirmation but I had several other items and was in a hurry. I wouldn't normally have done it anyway as I had never had a problem before.
The day I shipped it I get a note from the buyer(via dispute consule) to end the dispute since he paid for the item thru P.P. I figured this was the end of it all and so that's what I did. The next morning I get up and lo and behold, the a$$hole has filled a claim with P.P. on me for "have not received item". DUH, I just shipped it the day before.
Fast forward 2 days to Thursday. Now he escalates the dispute to P.P. that he wants his money back. By this time he has received the set and sees that there is no tracking number. Now P.P. asks me for a tracking number which I can't provide. They say that if they don't hear back from me in 10 days they will have no other choice but to refund his money. I'm on tilt by now
. P.P is really a work of art(P.O.S.)
The only thing I could think to do is send him something else
with a tracking number attached. So thats what I did. Sent it certified mail with signature confirmation. Today the tracking # shows that it was delivered and refused. This guy is good!!!
My question to everyone is what is/should be my next move. I don't know what the ruling will be. Either way I'm out the set or money. It's not about the money though now. $crew me once, shame on me. $crew me twice, shame on you!!!
This guy has sinced been NARU'd which should work to my favor but I'm not dealing with the Bay now, I'm dealing with P.P.. I plan on pursuing the "never received" issue with the Post Office and see if they can find out if in fact he did actually receive the original package. I am more than willing to take this as far as legally possible unless I get some calming words of wisdom from you guys that tell me to just let it die and live and learn. The Christian side of me says this is probably what I should do.
I also would like to add that this person is a member of ANA (at least that is what his website says). So is there some formal way of letting them (ANA)know what this guy is up to? I have purposely left out this persons name and business until this is all resolved but if you want to know more just p.m. me and I'll spill my guts out or you can check out the auction and figure it out from there.
Sorry for being so long winded but hopefully somebody can learn from my mistake. The moral of the story is always send something paid for thru P.P. with some kind of delivery.tracking number
Thanks everyone, Steve
Sorry to bring my troubles here but ya'll are all I got. I need some help/advice on what to do next. I apoligize for not contributing anymore than I have but guite honestly, I'm still learning and haven't had a lot to offer/contribute to the coin god's that reside here. I promise to do better in the future
.Perhaps this will be a small contibution and spare someone else the pain.I have been selling off some extra's(cleaning house) that I have accumulated over the years on the bay recently and have had a lot of fun doing it; until now
Isold this set(item#160007597070),sorry for not providing a link, I'm computer illiterate, to this guy and after no payment or any kind of email correspondence I sent him 2 reminder notes that he won the auction. People sometime forget right? Well a few days latter it becomes obvious that he has no intentions of paying as the negatives start to accumulate in his feedback. So, wanting to do the right thing, I filled a none paying bidder claim and left the guy a negative feedback. I did so knowing full well that I would get one in return but I felt like I had to do it. Two days latter I get a payment though paypal.Now this is where I really screwed up. I'm thinking everything is cool so I ship out the set the next day(monday evening). I insured it but that is all. I meant to send w/delivery confirmation but I had several other items and was in a hurry. I wouldn't normally have done it anyway as I had never had a problem before.
The day I shipped it I get a note from the buyer(via dispute consule) to end the dispute since he paid for the item thru P.P. I figured this was the end of it all and so that's what I did. The next morning I get up and lo and behold, the a$$hole has filled a claim with P.P. on me for "have not received item". DUH, I just shipped it the day before.
Fast forward 2 days to Thursday. Now he escalates the dispute to P.P. that he wants his money back. By this time he has received the set and sees that there is no tracking number. Now P.P. asks me for a tracking number which I can't provide. They say that if they don't hear back from me in 10 days they will have no other choice but to refund his money. I'm on tilt by now
. P.P is really a work of art(P.O.S.)The only thing I could think to do is send him something else
with a tracking number attached. So thats what I did. Sent it certified mail with signature confirmation. Today the tracking # shows that it was delivered and refused. This guy is good!!!My question to everyone is what is/should be my next move. I don't know what the ruling will be. Either way I'm out the set or money. It's not about the money though now. $crew me once, shame on me. $crew me twice, shame on you!!!
This guy has sinced been NARU'd which should work to my favor but I'm not dealing with the Bay now, I'm dealing with P.P.. I plan on pursuing the "never received" issue with the Post Office and see if they can find out if in fact he did actually receive the original package. I am more than willing to take this as far as legally possible unless I get some calming words of wisdom from you guys that tell me to just let it die and live and learn. The Christian side of me says this is probably what I should do.
I also would like to add that this person is a member of ANA (at least that is what his website says). So is there some formal way of letting them (ANA)know what this guy is up to? I have purposely left out this persons name and business until this is all resolved but if you want to know more just p.m. me and I'll spill my guts out or you can check out the auction and figure it out from there.
Sorry for being so long winded but hopefully somebody can learn from my mistake. The moral of the story is always send something paid for thru P.P. with some kind of delivery.tracking number
Thanks everyone, Steve
0
Comments
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Block him from bidding on your auctions in the future. The mistake, of course, was not
having some kind of proof of receipt. You should have done that when you had trouble
getting the payment from him, when you shipped it off.
I wouldn't blame PayPal or eBay for this. You have to have some kind of confirmation
of delivery/receipt which conforms to their policies.
I would contact the ANA, though when you make a complaint he will merely say he
never received it. And you cannot prove otherwise.
Maybe best to just let this one go...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
Beyond that, if things still go against you, I would think it breaks down like this -- if it is a large amount of money (decide for yourself what "large" is) pursue it with his local law enforcement. Speak in person with the relevant detective in the jurisdiction most local to him, and forward documentation of every step along the way to that person. You want the cop in the neighborhood station who will at least call him up and try to talk with him. Hand them an easy case and press charges. If it is not a large amount of money, i.e. not worth the hassle, call it tuition and move on.
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
Also, I did block him but I guess it's a moot point now. I knew this auction wasn't going to go good when the under bidder asked if this was the set they would receive(it said it right there in the add) and was the writing "1958" in Blue ink. I responded back that no it wasn't Blue. So they said that they would have to retract there bid but it was too late (less than 12 hrs) so we would just have to work it out amongst ourselves. They could have asked that question before they bid dontcha think. Anyway, they made it to my "blocked bidder list"also, even though I don't plan on selling too much more in the future. This has kinda taken the wind out of my sails.
Is there such a thing as a 58 proof set that had the Blue ink? I came across these sets(10) from a gentleman that I made a large purchase from and they where all the same. I opened a few and they where just average sets so I figured I could make a killing selling the rest.
Steve
p.s. Why can't I make a paragraph indention?
Silver eagle, If I lose the dipute then "HE" wins. That pi$$es me off. I could care less about the money at this point
<< <i>I opened a few and they where just average sets so I figured I could make a killing selling the rest. >>
Reap what you sow.
Russ
<< <i> I insured it but that is all. >>
You learned a good lesson here to always send with confirmation or send Registered mail. Glad it was not a $5,000.00 coin. Good Luck
If you are going to take PayPal, then use their site to print your shipping labels.
Delivery Confirmation is 14c and would have saved you $55 this time.
I'd file a complaint with the Postal Inspector.
Nice try with the second shipment
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Anyway the auction that I had a problem with went this way...
I won the auction and paid, and waited for the proof set to come. And waited, and waited, and waited. I emailed the seller, but got no reply. I waited some more. And emailed again. NO REPLY!!!. Then I email that I didn't want to get ebay or paypal involved but I would if they didn't come through. Or at least reply to my emails. I did finaly get my item. But no excuse was made as to why it took over a month. The only email I ever got from the seller was a quick, "Item Shipped today".
I hate all these ebay tails, of getting screwed by sellers or buyers, or paypal. Not saying I haven't bought things I shouldn't have. My ebay experiance has been good. 100% possitive feedback given and recived. (so far) Even the above seller since I did get my item. And they had 100% pos. at the time. Didn't want to screw them up over one slow shippment. Maybe I'm to nice.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<< <i>
<< <i> I insured it but that is all. >>
You learned a good lesson here to always send with confirmation or send Registered mail. Glad it was not a $5,000.00 coin. Good Luck >>
if you insured it and he claimed he didn't get it, file a claim.....let the PO check it out.
1. Try to make an insurance claim.
2. Always, use Delivery Confirmation/Return Receipt. This gives you the upper hand on a dispute.
3. Valuable lesson learned for everyone here on the Forum.
Looking for Denmark 1874 20-Kroner. Please offer.
The PO can look up and see who signed for it and print out who signed for it and I believe the date and time it was signed for. BUT the PO has to do it.
Cig confirmation and delivery confirmations you can track online
Good luck
<< <i>If this was sent Insured then the person HAS to sign for the package. >>
Not true. A signature for insured packages is NOT required until the value over $50. If $50 insurance was taken out - no signature would have been required.
My #1 Low Ball Peace Dollar Set
The truth: "I opened a few and they where just average sets so I figured I could make a killing selling the rest."
No sympathy here.
My #1 Low Ball Peace Dollar Set
No one is getting my coins free.
Ray
It is up to us to determine which battles are worth our time, etc. Yes, it is a matter of principle.... it always is. But how much time and effort does one want to devote to it?
What I would do.... file the insurance claim with the PO; if they demand proof, print out whatever info you have (emails, PayPal notifications, etc) and see if that proceeds. If that is of no fuition, then file a claim with the Postal Inspector (although I have not had much luck doing this. They probably only chase after the BIG perpetrators... but you never know). Then I would probably just learn my lesson and move on.... life if too short.
Most of these crooks.... are good. They know the in's and out's and how much they can get away with. The BEST weapon we have is PREVENTION...... not to let it happen. Trying to recoup the losses after the fact, though not impossible, usually proves very difficult and frustrating.
How did you get charged back when you had proof of delivery.....that's really really scary! Send a coin, prove delivery and still not gte paid.
I'm goping to the bank to open another account this morning and move all my funds into it so Paypal can't attack the account. Call it a CLEAN SWEEP account.
OLDGRUMP
My suggestion is file an insurance complaint with the PO. Inform the buyer that you are doing so. Also let the buyer know that it is a Federal Crime to steal mail through the PO. Let him know once you've filed the paperwork with the PO then the postal inspectors get involved (they most likely won;t on this low value, but it should put some fear of God in him). Let him know once the postal inpsectors get involved, then you can't stop the train from leaving the station.
Good Luck!!!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
First of all, this problem is not caused or aggravated by PayPal. In any situation where someone
uses a credit card, they "can" do a chargeback. Chargebacks are a factor in any business, regardless
of the selling venue. Most people who are ordinary sellers on eBay have a hard time with this concept, because
they do not deal with accepting credit cards in their ordinary, day-to-day business...
Secondly, removing funds from your PayPal account will not necessarily stop PayPal from retrieving the funds!
Think about it. You have funds coming into your PayPal account. You transfer those funds to your bank
account of record. You then place strict instructions with your bank that PayPal is not allowed to draft
on your account without your permission. No problem, they just reverse the previous deposit, and the
funds become immediately due, with or without your permission. "If" you are smart enough to not only
drain your PayPal account, but also drain your bank account, you "can" evade any collection of funds.
However, this will surely result in suspension or cancellation of your PayPal and/or eBay selling account,
when they cannot retrieve their funds... So you lose either way.
This is my understanding about how it works in the real world.
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
your intent may have been in the right place but thats not the way to do it.....maybe you have the receipt from the post office which which show the zip code you sent to....not as good as a tracking number but would prove that you mailed it to Pay Pal ...in reading the rest of the thread, you had insured it so PO can track it...but again, your actions were not the best here.
<< <i>How did you get charged back when you had proof of delivery.....that's really really scary! Send a coin, prove delivery and still not gte paid >>
My guess is that he sent it without delivery confimation which can be tracked on-line. It was trackable in-house by the Post office so we know it got there, but Paypal will not accecpt in-house tracking by the post office. It has to be something Paypal can track themselves on-line. (The odd thing is no one but Paypal trusts delivery confirmation because delivery confirmation only says that SOMEONE, we have no idea who it was, got the package. )
The problem with filing the insurance claim is one, I think the buyer has to sign the form as well, good luck getting the scammer to do that. And two if it was insured for over $50 dollars then the Post office records will show that it was delivered so the insurance claim will be denied.
I want to thank everybody for their honest and direct opinions. I have found that the general population seems to have the same thoughts and ideas that I had already envisioned.
To those that thought it was/is a cheap learning experience i sincerily agree. I hope that others can/will learn from my mistake. I know I have
To those that thought sending the second package was unethical I couldn't agree more. Had I been dealing with someone on the same level of playing field I would have never have done it. It's not something I'm proud of but I felt I was backed in a corner. However, I probably should NOT have stooped to his level. My loving wife prevented me from carrying out what I really wanted to send this guy.
When this is settled with paypal I will turn it over to the post master and let them handle it. After all, He said he never received it.
I am pretty much over it now that I have read everyones post and I thank each and everyone of you for that
Thanks Steve
So, clearing your account will not save you. If all else fails, it appears they will send a collection agency after you. So they said anyways.
The only dealer affiliation with any teeth whatsoever is PNG. And you don't find a lot of these guys wasting their time on ebay. While being in PNG is no a sign of sainthood by any means, they do follow up on complaints about member dealers and actively try to resolve them.
roadrunner
I once owned and ran a collection agency. They won't fool around with low value impossible to prove cases. It's not worth their time....and it's not like they can tack hundreds of dollars in fees on top of a small account collection. If they were to call, you just tell them you are in the right, take me to court and I'll prove it (then you are the defendant and have more rights). The other tact is tell them you are right and any more contact will be deemed harrasment, which requires a collection agency to stop calling (assuming you are in the right).
Anyhow, paypal still has the upper hand.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
PayPal wants/needs online delivery confirmation.
IF you insured it for more than $50, then he would have to sign for it. You can get a copy of that from your post office. Tell PayPal you'll get that and mail it to them. Tell them to look at this feedback and that he is trying to commit postal fraud.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i> I was stiffed by a dealer (Beavertown Coin, NJ) for $11,000 >>
Details. We need details.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>IF you insured it for more than $50, then he would have to sign for it. You can get a copy of that from your post office. Tell PayPal you'll get that and mail it to them. >>
You can do that but they will still approve the chargeback because there is no on-line tracking.