Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
It is not an accurate statement, but the magnitude of dishonesty is not enough to categorize the dealer as a scumbag.
When making an offer on a coin, I always consider statements on how much the dealer paid to be a lie, a selling tactic of trying to make you feel guilty for not giving the dealer a fair profit. It is always beneficial to follow the auctions the series you collect, I have used PR info on specific coins as a bargaining tool on several occasions.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
He is not being dishonest. Rounding like that is a very common thing to do when talking. If someone says "How much did you pay for your shirt," you wont say the exact amount with tax and everything, you would just say $30 or $25.
A dealer (or collector) buys a coin out of a public auction for $3220, including the buyer's charge. He then offers it for sale to various dealers at a coin show at $3600. A couple of the dealers who view it offer $3000 for, it and he tells them "I can't do that, I paid $3200 for it".
Some of you (if not all of you) are probably wondering why, on earth, I'd start a thread (edited to add: under these circumstances). After all, the person said he paid $3200, when he paid exactly $3220 and he didn't even lie and say his cost was higher than it really was. But here's a little kicker - he purposely didn't say his cost was $3220, because he knew that might let potential buyers know if was a purchase via public auction. Some people do care about things like that and might be less likely to want the coin under those circumstances.
So, was the seller "dishonest"? Thanks.
NO............................................ it does not really matter weather the seller paid 3200 3220 5000 or 100 dollars it is just the coin
<< <i>When making an offer on a coin, I always consider statements on how much the dealer paid to be a lie, a selling tactic of trying to make you feel guilty for not giving the dealer a fair profit. It is always beneficial to follow the auctions the series you collect, I have used PR info on specific coins as a bargaining tool on several occasions. >>
I always believe dealers' reports of what they paid for coins I want. I sometimes think they paid too much.
I think you have a problem with this dealer and are straining to find fault with him. Even if he did purposely round down to conceal where he got the coin, that is not dishonest (and you are speculating that he is purposely doing this). It is not like he is concealing a defect. My dad is an old junk trader and as honest as the day is long. He is very reluctant to tell people much about this history of his junk or how much he paid for it. Salesmanship is providing a product at a price that makes the seller and the buyer happy, indepent of where the product came from or what the seller paid for it.
It is human nature to begrudge the seller a profit. if you try to sell something worth $10 for $10, you're likely to sell it. But tell 10 people you only paid $1 for it and half will back out.
It took me a while to figure out what the rub was. Now I see, the cost for the coin PLUS the auction fees was what he quoted. Instead, he may have quoted what the coin actually sold for, minus the auction fees. Am I getting close here?
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
<< <i>It took me a while to figure out what the rub was. Now I see, the cost for the coin PLUS the auction fees was what he quoted. Instead, he may have quoted what the coin actually sold for, minus the auction fees. Am I getting close here?
Jonathan >>
Jonathan, by saying he paid $3200 instead of $3220, the dealer is potentially hiding the fact that the coin was an auction purchase from would-be buyers who might care where the coin came from.
Even if he did purposely round down to conceal where he got the coin, that is not dishonest (and you are speculating that he is purposely doing this).
There is no speculating, the scenario is that he PURPOSELY did this for a reason.
This is not a swipe at anybody but some of the answers to this thread is exactly why some people have problems with eBay, they don't comprehend what they are reading. They will read an auction and make all kinds of assumptions or read things into the auction that just are not there or miss things that are actually there.
It all depends on intent. If the dealer's intent is to hide the fact he bought the coin in an auction, because he feels it will lower the offers he would recieve then I guess it's a tad dishonest. If he's (or she) is just rounding down to simplify it's not. Could go either way.
I can see it from both side but I think he said he paid a drop less than he did and if he purchased from another dealer or auction should not really matter.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
<< <i>It took me a while to figure out what the rub was. Now I see, the cost for the coin PLUS the auction fees was what he quoted. Instead, he may have quoted what the coin actually sold for, minus the auction fees. Am I getting close here?
Jonathan >>
Jonathan, by saying he paid $3200 instead of $3220, the dealer is potentially hiding the fact that the coin was an auction purchase from would-be buyers who might care where the coin came from. >>
Well, then I still don't get it. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. $3200 $3220 What would either price mean that it was or was not an auction? No, I don't get it.
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
Mark, If I take a few minutes I can check to see if a coin was sold at an auction. In a technical sense, being off by $20 is not accurate but NBD. I am pretty sure if someone asked you if the coin was bought at an auction you would tell them. I started a long discussion about dealer to dealer interactions but decided it was stupid for me as a non dealer to tell you how I imagined dealers deal with each other. There must be some reason that you chose this post; I don't get it. If it is about buyers attitudes of dealer purchases and then sales of auctioned coins then why not say so. That would be a more interesting topic .
I forgot to say that if he was asked if he got it at auction and said no, that would be dishonest. Otherwise, not even close to dishonesty in my opinion. Often traders might say "I have about $3200 into it" as opposed to "I paid $3200 for it". --Jerry
Ok, so here's part of the reason I started this thread....
I own the coin in question and, compared to most other examples of the same type and grade, it is better, quality-wise, and noticeably more attractive. I paid $3220 for it in a public auction, despite the fact that generic pieces sell for approximately $2400.
I am going to have it priced in the mid to upper $3000 range at the ANA later this month. I anticipate that at least a few dealers will want to buy it, but buy it "right", and will therefore make counter-offers. Occasionally, some from among the group of dealers that I do most of my business with will ask what I paid for a coin or why I can't/wont sell it at a given price. For the record, I have no problem with that, though many posters think or know it's none of their business. These dealers know they will get an honest answer from me.
If I say that I paid $3220 for the coin, a number of them will figure out that it came from an auction. That would probably make the coin less desirable than if it were bought via a private transaction and were a "fresh" coin. If/when the question arises, it would be easier and more advantageous for me to say I paid $3200, as opposed to $3220. However, for the reasons mentioned, that might be misleading in this particular case, so I can't do that.
Comments
That goes without saying. The seller is, after all, a coin dealer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
These circumstances. Not generally accepted or what someone coulda woulda shoulda done but "these circumstances".
Now answer the question.
Joe.
When making an offer on a coin, I always consider statements on how much the dealer paid to be a lie, a selling tactic of trying to make you feel guilty for not giving the dealer a fair profit. It is always beneficial to follow the auctions the series you collect, I have used PR info on specific coins as a bargaining tool on several occasions.
Some of you (if not all of you) are probably wondering why, on earth, I'd start a thread (edited to add: under these circumstances). After all, the person said he paid $3200, when he paid exactly $3220 and he didn't even lie and say his cost was higher than it really was. But here's a little kicker - he purposely didn't say his cost was $3220, because he knew that might let potential buyers know if was a purchase via public auction. Some people do care about things like that and might be less likely to want the coin under those circumstances.
So, was the seller "dishonest"? Thanks.
NO............................................ it does not really matter weather the seller paid 3200 3220 5000 or 100 dollars it is just the coin
<< <i>When making an offer on a coin, I always consider statements on how much the dealer paid to be a lie, a selling tactic of trying to make you feel guilty for not giving the dealer a fair profit. It is always beneficial to follow the auctions the series you collect, I have used PR info on specific coins as a bargaining tool on several occasions. >>
I always believe dealers' reports of what they paid for coins I want. I sometimes think they paid too much.
<< <i>he purposely didn't say his cost was $3220 >>
Of course he's being dishonest. It cannot be argued otherwise. But, as I said before, it's really of little consequence.
Russ, NCNE
It is human nature to begrudge the seller a profit. if you try to sell something worth $10 for $10, you're likely to sell it. But tell 10 people you only paid $1 for it and half will back out.
--Jerry
TorinoCobra71
Jonathan
<< <i>It took me a while to figure out what the rub was. Now I see, the cost for the coin PLUS the auction fees was what he quoted. Instead, he may have quoted what the coin actually sold for, minus the auction fees. Am I getting close here?
Jonathan >>
Jonathan, by saying he paid $3200 instead of $3220, the dealer is potentially hiding the fact that the coin was an auction purchase from would-be buyers who might care where the coin came from.
There is no speculating, the scenario is that he PURPOSELY did this for a reason.
This is not a swipe at anybody but some of the answers to this thread is exactly why some people have problems with eBay, they don't comprehend what they are reading. They will read an auction and make all kinds of assumptions or read things into the auction that just are not there or miss things that are actually there.
Joe.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>
<< <i>It took me a while to figure out what the rub was. Now I see, the cost for the coin PLUS the auction fees was what he quoted. Instead, he may have quoted what the coin actually sold for, minus the auction fees. Am I getting close here?
Jonathan >>
Jonathan, by saying he paid $3200 instead of $3220, the dealer is potentially hiding the fact that the coin was an auction purchase from would-be buyers who might care where the coin came from. >>
Well, then I still don't get it. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. $3200 $3220 What would either price mean that it was or was not an auction? No, I don't get it.
Jonathan
If I take a few minutes I can check to see if a coin was sold at an auction.
In a technical sense, being off by $20 is not accurate but NBD.
I am pretty sure if someone asked you if the coin was bought at an auction you would tell them. I started a long discussion about dealer to dealer interactions but decided it was stupid for me as a non dealer to tell you how I imagined dealers deal with each other. There must be some reason that you chose this post; I don't get it.
If it is about buyers attitudes of dealer purchases and then sales of auctioned coins then why not say so. That would be a more interesting topic .
I own the coin in question and, compared to most other examples of the same type and grade, it is better, quality-wise, and noticeably more attractive. I paid $3220 for it in a public auction, despite the fact that generic pieces sell for approximately $2400.
I am going to have it priced in the mid to upper $3000 range at the ANA later this month. I anticipate that at least a few dealers will want to buy it, but buy it "right", and will therefore make counter-offers. Occasionally, some from among the group of dealers that I do most of my business with will ask what I paid for a coin or why I can't/wont sell it at a given price. For the record, I have no problem with that, though many posters think or know it's none of their business. These dealers know they will get an honest answer from me.
If I say that I paid $3220 for the coin, a number of them will figure out that it came from an auction. That would probably make the coin less desirable than if it were bought via a private transaction and were a "fresh" coin. If/when the question arises, it would be easier and more advantageous for me to say I paid $3200, as opposed to $3220. However, for the reasons mentioned, that might be misleading in this particular case, so I can't do that.
There you have it and let the teasing begin.
<< <i>
<< <i>he purposely didn't say his cost was $3220 >>
The answer is contained within the hypothetical. In the overall scheme of things, however, the offense is de minimis.
Russ, NCNE >>
O'my Gosh! I actually agree with Russ!
MBT