I suppose I should be flattered....

tradedollarnut · July 14, 2006 2:56AM

.... that a major dealer used my Registry Set pictures to build their website. However, in light of the fact their 'facts' are out to lunch, I'm not!

1836: Mintage of 1,600 with an estimated 100 proofs being minted

1838: Proofs only with an estimated 100 being minted

1839: Proofs only with an estimated 100 being minted

If you're gonna steal my pics, at least get your info right!

Louis · July 14, 2006 2:59AM

Change the url to your pictures to reference some porno.

millennium · July 14, 2006 3:01AM

<< Change the url to your pictures to reference some porno >>

LOL...Man you have to do it!...LOL

RYK · July 14, 2006 3:02AM

Too late, they have their own url's.

Technically, who owns the right to the images? And is it worth it to fight it?

Edit: Make them give you a proof dcam double eagle, and we'll call it square.

Edit #2: And who's bankrolling those guys?

tradedollarnut · July 14, 2006 3:03AM

<< Change the url to your pictures to reference some porno.

>>

That wouldn't work - they saved the image and used it to create their webpage ... they didn't link it.

Russ · July 14, 2006 3:17AM

Did they seek permission to use the images? Is the copyright transferred to you when you purchase the Truview service or does it remain with PCGS? If they didn't seek permission from either you or PCGS, this is as cheesy as it gets.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · July 14, 2006 3:19AM

<< Edit #2: And who's bankrolling those guys? >>

It's Albanese. I think they're already well bankrolled.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 14, 2006 3:53AM

I could have their website shut down in about an hour for you if you want

Coxe · July 14, 2006 3:53AM

True View Announcement Link

"In addition, smaller images are always available on a special PCGS web site, so any owner (even if the owner was not the submitter) can use the image for applications such as an eBay offering, on their own web site, or any other way on the Internet to display or market the PCGS-certified coin in the future."

That would appear to suggest no copyright is transferred to the original submitter and that PCGS/CU is waiving its rights to the images.

tradedollarnut · July 14, 2006 3:57AM

<< True View Announcement Link

"In addition, smaller images are always available on a special PCGS web site, so any owner (even if the owner was not the submitter) can use the image for applications such as an eBay offering, on their own web site, or any other way on the Internet to display or market the PCGS-certified coin in the future."

That would appear to suggest no copyright is transferred to the original submitter and that PCGS/CU is waiving its rights to the images. >>

Seems to me they are transferring image copyright with the coin ownership.

Russ · July 14, 2006 4:02AM

<< Seems to me they are transferring image copyright with the coin ownership. >>

That's not what the language says. It is simply granting permission to use the images. For it to be a transfer of the copyright, it would have to explicitly state that.

Edited to add: But, that's really a side issue. The real issue is whether or not Albanese sought permission to use the image. I guess we can assume they didn't do so with you? So, the only question left is did they do so with PCGS?

Russ, NCNE

Coxe · July 14, 2006 4:05AM

I don't think facility for that exists in copyright law. Perhaps a lawyer in that area on here might know.

This has bothered me. You are either commissioning them for the service of taking photographs for you or you are buying those images from them. It is clearly the latter with NGC as they say in their photoproofs. It appears to also be the case inferrentially for PCGS. You ship your outstanding coin to them and pay them for nothing more than a images they technically have rights to, but whose rights are waived per the structure of the service offering.

dragon · July 14, 2006 4:15AM

I don't think it's a big thing really, and I would guess they didn't do it with any sneaky or dishonest motives and they're not hurting anyone. They're just pics of some super nice coins and I would be flattered if they used my pics considering the calibre of coins they deal in.......JMO.

crito · July 14, 2006 4:16AM

I was going to argue fair use but see he's actually selling coins on that site, so, uh.... I dunno, maybe you should talk to a lawyer.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 14, 2006 4:22AM

you'd be more flattered if you were compensated, huh ?

or at least recognized as having contributed.

lava · July 14, 2006 4:38AM

Prior responses have identified the key paragraph:

"In addition, smaller images are always available on a special PCGS web site, so any owner (even if the owner was not the submitter)
can use the image for applications such as an eBay offering, on their own web site, or any other way on the Internet to display or
market the PCGS-certified coin in the future. "

I think this can be interpreted to read any owner OF THE COIN can use the image. Since Albanese is not the owner of the coin, I don't see how it would fall within that language.

Fletcher says he can shut their website down in an hour. I'd like to see that. Hire Fletcher!

ziggy29 · July 14, 2006 4:42AM

<< I think this can be interpreted to read any owner OF THE COIN can use the image. Since Albanese is not the owner of the coin, I don't see how it would fall within that language. >>

Perhaps. But if PCGS owns the copyright, all this does is explicitly grant permission to the coin's owner to use the images, without the need to seek permission from PCGS.

It doesn't explicitly forbid others from using it as far as I can tell, though I would think the implied meaning is that it's only a problem if (a) PCGS hasn't explicitly granted permission to use the images and (b) they intend to protect their copyright.

Given how lax they are about protecting their price guide as "intellectual property" when scammers quote PCGS prices for third world MS-70 coins, I have trouble believing they'd get worked up about this, either.

lava · July 14, 2006 4:52AM

"Given how lax they are about protecting their price guide as "intellectual property" when scammers quote PCGS prices for third world MS-70 coins, I have trouble believing they'd get worked up about this, either. "

That is true, although with regard to the popluation numbers, for example, Heritage uses that information in its auctions with an asterisk, and I think the asterisk indicates the information belongs to PCGS and can not be reused without its consent. I can't see this particular case going anywhere, but I still like the idea of hiring Fletcher to see what he can accomplish in one hour.

braddick · July 14, 2006 4:59AM

<< 

Fletcher says he can shut their website down in an hour. I'd like to see that. Hire Fletcher! >>

I'd much rather see him remove a negative feedback.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 14, 2006 5:30AM

<< 

<< 

Fletcher says he can shut their website down in an hour. I'd like to see that. Hire Fletcher! >>

I'd much rather see him remove a negative feedback.

>>

touche' Pat

lava · July 14, 2006 5:40AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

Fletcher says he can shut their website down in an hour. I'd like to see that. Hire Fletcher! >>

I'd much rather see him remove a negative feedback.

>>

touche' Pat

>>

tradedollarnut · July 14, 2006 6:58AM

<< you'd be more flattered if you were compensated, huh ?

or at least recognized as having contributed. >>

Heck, no - it bothers me more that they did sloppy work and messed up the mintages. If you're gonna do something, do it right!

Edited to add: actually, it does bother me some because of my association with Legend. It would be like Legend going on to Pinnacle's website to snatch an image of one of their coins for use on their own site.

morgannut2 · July 14, 2006 7:11AM

I'd just email them the right mintages. If they don't fix it in a few months, get your own blog site cheap.

Put the correct info there, after a catchy Blog title that will pop up just below their commercial website on Google.
-----------

MikeInFL · July 14, 2006 7:22AM

That's pretty low if you ask me....Mike

Connecticoin · July 14, 2006 7:24AM

I think it is pretty cheesy that they used TDN's images without permission. Does not reflect well on this fairly prominent coin dealer.

It makes me wonder of Albanese knows this was done or if his website minions took a shortcut and hoped no one would notice.

coinlieutenant · July 14, 2006 9:27AM

I never did get an answer to this thread from coinace....

CalGold · July 14, 2006 10:06AM

The copyright to those photo may actually belong to the photographer and not to PCGS unless his contract with PCGS assigns the copyrights to the company.

CG

roadrunner · July 14, 2006 12:30PM

You should feel very flattered TDN. Your coins may be some of the first "non-white" (ie dipped) silver coins to grace the website. You have to start somewhere.

roadrunner

I suppose I should be flattered....

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