Terrible luck with scammers

thedpro · June 19, 2006 11:43AM

I must have the worst luck when it comes to trying to purchase high end cards. About two years ago I was caught up in a Mantle Rookie scam. Thankfully, that theif is now in prison.

However, I am in the midst of another situation and I am not sure how to proceed. I won a Michael Jordan 86 Fleer PSA 9 for a fantastic price on ebay. Buyer does not take paypal, so I send a personal check (I figure its easiest to track as I can see where it was cashed). Money clears and over a week later no card. He claims that he sent it. He did not provide a tracking number b/c I did not buy insurance. Ok, what idiot sends almost $1000 worth of cardboard without some type of tracking (even if insurance was not purchased). Now his grandmother died (convenient?) and he will be away for 10 days. Do I have any legal recourse? I filed a no receipt with Ebay and they MAY refund up to $175 of my money (small % of what I spent).

After this incident, I am seriously thinking of selling my collection and moving on. If there are this many lowlifes in the hobby, then I do not want to be a part of it. It truly makes me sick that someone can blantenly steal and I cannot do s**t about it.

incugator · June 19, 2006 11:47AM

I would be a little bit more patient before you blow your top. I've been scammed too. I think by the same guy as you, but sometimes the mail can take 7-10 days. IF the seller has replied to your messages, I think you are in pretty good shape of getting some type of compensation. I think all of us have been worried that we weren't going to get our cards and we've hassled the seller and finally gotten it. I hope all turns out well for you. If it doesn't, you should let us know the sellers ID.

montanafan · June 19, 2006 11:50AM

can you give us an ebay auction number?

Stone193 · June 19, 2006 11:51AM

Got a link to the auction?

mike

Boopotts · June 19, 2006 11:56AM

I know this is Monday Morning Quarterbacking, but man, you have to pay for insurance and/or delivery confirmation if you're sending a check or money order to someone. You don't need to sell of your collection in disgust-- just don't cut corners when it comes to small additional expenses that could save you a ton of headaches.

slatsme · June 19, 2006 11:57AM

Boo - Nice and direct post. I feel bad for the guy that may have been scammed, but you're right - spend an extra 10 bucks to get the insurance and whatnot.

Stone193 · June 19, 2006 12:01PM

<< <i>After this incident, I am seriously thinking of selling my collection and moving on >>

Hang in there pro.

It's all part of the hobby...

I have been screwed in the past and plan to be screwed in the future...

I know this is trite: but why throw away the baby with....

Just when one thinks they are being careful...ya get blindsided!

I hope this works out.
mike

slatsme · June 19, 2006 12:04PM

Right - As the best coach in Cleveland Browns history once said "this is not a knee jerk reaction"

So hang in there and good will come.

storm888 · June 19, 2006 12:05PM

That is bad.

Sadly, absent PayPal, the buyer is "at a disadvantage" in this
kind of circumstance.

eBay might be able to hike the $175.00 as high as $225.00, if
they decide the seller is a "serial scamster." Start watching
his FB for similar "horrors;" if you can get a BUNCH of "victims"
together, eBay can be a little more generous. (Last xmas was
probably their biggest payout ever; about 500 "victims" of a
"good 'power'seller gone bad.")

Some people on this board will give you a hard time for not
making sure the item was insured/registered. I will not do
that. But please, do not ever again send a stranger a bunch of money,
not get some insurance and tracking services from the USPS,
and expect a different outcome.

No responsible seller would have allowed that kind of package
to go out without insurance. As you know, if it had been a PayPal
transaction, you would already be shopping for a new MJ/PSA9.

Also, the missing card may show up in the mail eventually.
The dead grandmother makes me "worry," though.

storm

thedpro · June 19, 2006 12:09PM

I know it was dumb to not get insurance. Honestly, it was a plain oversight, not cutting corners.

Did I mention that the seller is NARU?

possible scammer

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8816976978&rd=1 - if the link doesnt work.

montanafan · June 19, 2006 12:10PM

this is all true.. also you should be able to tell a lot from the guy's feedback profile.. do you have a seller id for him or an auction number that we can check out? the feedback profile almost always tells the full story.

edited to add: naru probably means you're S.O.L.. sorry buddy! chalk it up as a learning experience and write it off at tax time...

slatsme · June 19, 2006 12:11PM

Oh - NARU, not good. Kind of changes the playing field a bit. Can you do anything with your bank?

effe · June 19, 2006 12:16PM

Plus he sold the same card twice.
Other auction.

montanafan · June 19, 2006 12:18PM

although.. don't jump off a bridge just yet.. thinking about it, i had this exact situation once where the seller didn't take pay pal and then went naru when i was awaiting the shipment... fortunately she was back on ebay in a few days and i did receive my cards.. hopefully you will have a similar outcome.

montanafan · June 19, 2006 12:18PM

Plus he sold the same card twice.

ok, jump off a bridge

Allen · June 19, 2006 12:38PM

Before you bid on anything post it here and get some feedback from the group. It will save you a ton if you fell your not in the know on an item. That flip with the frosting on the side, no paypal, 26 feedback, selling the same card twice, etc.....more red flags than a communist rally.

Stone193 · June 19, 2006 12:38PM

How about contacting the other buyer.

Get together and file a report in the guy's hometown police department.

It's a try.

Plus, I don't want to seem insensitive but the guy is selling a "highend" basketball card and doesn't deal in cards from what I can see?

On that basis alone - along with no paypal - doesn't look like a good idea?

mike

storm888 · June 19, 2006 12:42PM

The item location on the cards is listed as"

"a far away place." (true!)

The other sold items were said to be in "Michigan."

The Hawaiian names could mean nothing, or they could
mean that the children have gone home to roost; and, to
bury grammy with the $2K they bagged for the two cards
that are in a "place far away."

Also, the slab looks cracked. And, he went on to say, "This
card is not copied in any way. I took the picture." When sellers
talk that way, THEY ARE TRYING TO SCAM YOU!!!!!!!!

Also, the cert # is scre*ed up and not easily readable.

storm

dtkk49a · June 19, 2006 12:51PM

Hi,
Sorry to hear you fell victim to a scammer. That is the worst feeling. But have to admit you failed to recognize all the warning signals that are talked about here on this forum over and over again. As you stated, a "fantastic price", no Paypal, shady past - you need to run fast from a auction like that.
Unless you have money to blow, you better do some pre-work before spening $1000.00 on a peice of cardboard.
You wouldn't buy $1000.00 stereo system made by a company you never heard of, would you ? You would do some research and buy from a reputable dealer. I would consider this a lesson learned. Like the sayng goes, "Fool you once, shame on them. Fool you twice, shame on you"

thedpro · June 19, 2006 12:52PM

Well, when I bid, he hadn't sold the other one.

Seller claims that he had two of the same card (I picked up on the double sale too). I contacted the other buyer. He sent out the money and has not received the card either. This isn't looking good.

wick70 · June 19, 2006 12:56PM

Instead of stating what you should have done.... here's something you can do now or in a few days.

STOP PAYMENT ON THE CHECK

It's about $25.00

Wick

storm888 · June 19, 2006 12:59PM

Contact some of YOUR underbidders, and some of the
the other buyer's underbidders. The seller could have easily
sent second-chance offers to one or more of the under-bidders.

A common scamster-practice on eBay's "venue."

I checked your underbidders and did not see any "real"
signs of a shill.

Did you send the check to Michigan or to some other place?

storm

pandrews · June 19, 2006 1:00PM

yeah this doesnt look good for you.. i hope you get your money back..

the slab doesnt look just right either..

Stone193 · June 19, 2006 1:00PM

<< <i>Instead of stating what you should have done.... here's something you can do now or in a few days.

STOP PAYMENT ON THE CHECK

It's about $25.00

Wick >>

I got an insurance check at my office - I deposited it and later I got notice the check had stop payment and I'm not even sure why.

I would check with your bank - I agree - it may not be too late - unless the guy cashed it and has no true bank affiliation?

mike

goose3 · June 19, 2006 1:01PM

What city/state does this DVD seller live in?

Hopefully for your sake a Small one.

I would not waste a bit of time. Print off copies of the auction and all of your correspondence and save them. Keep notes of what has transpired and anything else that happens. Print off copies of the second auction.

I don't know if you still can do so since he is now NARU'd......but try getting his contact info from Ebay and call him immediately.
Do that HERE under contact info.

See what he has to say when you call his house....if you can get in touch with him.

If you can look at your cashed/cleared check online like I can, see where it was cashed. Print all of that off as well.

Call this guy's local law enforcement agency and tell them you'd like to make a Fraud report out. Ask them if they could possibly go to this guy's house and have a word with him.

Depending on what happens there and with your attempt at calling him, I'd be filing a complaint with the USPS tomorrow as well.

Get in touch with the other person that is seemingly hosed and have them so the same!

He is dragging you along for a reason.......don't fall for it. Better safe than sorry.

Good luck

Boopotts · June 19, 2006 1:20PM

I also like where he says 'I don't know much about cards, my father was the expert', then goes on to say that he thought the card should have graded a 10.

Wow. What a drag-- I've been scammed on Ebay before, but never for $900. At some point I have to think Ebay's going to do a little more to make sure the people selling on their site aren't illiterate 17 year olds with a a nasty meth habit, but to date nothing's really changed.

storm888 · June 19, 2006 1:41PM

eBay will not take action to solve the problems because
their customer base does not demand it.

With 200,000,000 potential victims already signed up
worldwide, it could take decades to scam enough folks
to spark any change at eBay.

I worked with a lot of the 2005 Xmas victims - the ones
that bought the invisible i-Pods and cameras. Man oh
man, did they ever want eBay to be reformed. But then,
eBay gave them some of their money back and the
"victims" went back to their lives, and left eBay alone
to continue with business as usual. More than 500
people, bought off for a few bucks each.

Such is life.

storm

jmbkb4 · June 19, 2006 1:56PM

First he lost his father (per auction) and now he's lost his grandmother too (per buyer).

Poor seller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bsfastball · June 19, 2006 3:57PM

Stop payment on that check!

Keep us updated and let us know how it turns out.

storm888 · June 19, 2006 4:27PM

The check is likely a goner, by now.

storm

montanafan · June 19, 2006 4:29PM

i would imagine the check was cashed at a check cashing store

storm888 · June 19, 2006 4:33PM

Opening post says,

"......Money clears..........X days later, no card."

Those sellers are back on Waikiki Beach by now.

storm

craig19 · June 19, 2006 8:28PM

The same happened to me about 5 months ago.......also a PSA9 Jordan rookie. I since have become a lot smarter. In that scenario, I had his contact info from EBAY, but he transposed some of the numbers in the phone #. I finally got a copy of the cashed money order and saw it was cashed on a Wachovia bank. I called a buddy of mine who worked at Wachovia and got the correct phone #. I went to my local police dept and they contacted him, which scared him. Between the police dept threats and my calling him numerous times, he finally sent me a check for the $. When i went to cash the check, surpirse....IT WAS NO GOOD.

I contacted him again and he told me he had to transfer some funds to the account. 30 minutes later the check was good and cashed. I no longer get involved in any auctionsthat do not take paypal.

RichG · June 19, 2006 9:01PM

As a buyer.....I'll rarely buy an expensive item if the seller doesn't accept paypal via credit cards.

As a seller....I'll rarely allow paypal as payment on expensive items. I rather sell my item for a little less money than risk the chance of the buyer claiming that I didn't send the item he won but instead sent "a bunch of commons".

Rich

cohocorp · June 20, 2006 12:17AM

i think worth a shot would be to go to your local police dept and file a mail fraud charge. i think it is on him to get the item to you. insurance really shouldnt come into play. you paid for something and didnt receive it. i am sure he has no proof he sent it. i further believe that he would have to answer the charges in the town they are filed. this may at least scare him enough to get him to refund you. alot of these scammers will get nervous getting a call from the 50. at least its worth a shot. hope this helps

pat

jimq112 · June 20, 2006 12:52AM

<< <i>i think worth a shot would be to go to your local police dept and file a mail fraud charge. i think it is on him to get the item to you. insurance really shouldnt come into play. you paid for something and didnt receive it. i am sure he has no proof he sent it. i further believe that he would have to answer the charges in the town they are filed. this may at least scare him enough to get him to refund you. alot of these scammers will get nervous getting a call from the 50. at least its worth a shot. hope this helps

pat >>

Pat, I think he would be better off getting with the other guy who got scammed and talking to the postmaster and police dept where the guy lives.

If he files a report at his local police/USPS then they have to do all the out of town contacts and it's less likely they pursue it.

If they both file at the guy's home office, then the people there see the pattern, and they might already have other complaints to add to it to make it more "serious". If one guy didn't get a $1000 card it's "possible" that it got lost in the mail, but 2 guys both missing $1000 cards shipped to different towns is pretty unlikely.

Also it's easier for the local cop/sheriff in his town to have a report in front of him and go act on it than it is for him to work with a different office in another state.

Most important is to get with the other buyer and combine the thing.

To find contact information at the post office go here , type in the zip code, then click on the blue link that says MORE INFO and it'll give you the post office's real phone # instead of that 1-800-ask-usps that's basically worthless.

call the office and ask for the postmaster or a supervisor, get their name, tell them what happened. Ask for the number for the local postal inspector. Call and explain what happened, and ask what you can do.

Call your bank and get a copy of the cancelled check. You'll need it and it takes a few days to get.

Don't just take a loss and let him get away with it.

thedpro · June 20, 2006 8:49AM

Well, I found out where he works. I called him there. He still claims the card was sent. I have a good mind to post his work information and name here. I think I will if things do not pan out the way I want.

storm888 · June 20, 2006 9:00AM

I would not post his work address.

Whole thread might go poof.

If he refuses to give a partial refund, your only option
is to try to get eBay to cough up a pittance from their
"venue victims" fund.

Make sure you tell eBay about the "second sale of the
card." That is really all you have to prove scammery.

With no docs to confirm either the buyer's or the seller's
position in the matter, you are probably shafted for the dif
between the vic-fund and the sale price.

storm

SoFLPhillyFan · June 20, 2006 9:41AM

It's a real shame and I hope you get your money back.

I usually don't dig this deep, especially with a 100% feedback but then again I usually don't spend $900 on a card.

Did you happen to notice that since his account was opened in January he has changed IDs four times?

If it was me and I had the cash or some frequent flier miles, I would hop a plane and buy a Louisville Slugger on the other end. Then again a cop would do the trick if he accompanied you.

Don't let it ruin your hobby.

Just ask for advice first.

pandrews · June 20, 2006 9:45AM

+1 for Keith's louisville slugger advice..

goose3 · June 20, 2006 10:50AM

thedpro.

did you even read my post?

montanafan · June 20, 2006 12:29PM

lol.. i did, goose, so it wasn't a total waste.. good advice..

other guy: listen to goose about this, he's a cop.

MarkJ · June 20, 2006 12:37PM

900.00 I want to sign for it.

LuvMyCoins · June 20, 2006 12:40PM

Ok, what idiot sends almost $1000 worth of cardboard without some type of tracking (even if insurance was not purchased).

The same idiot who doesn't buy the insurance.

RangerRob · June 20, 2006 12:49PM

He won this from a seller... email this seller and get as much info on this guy as you can.

storm888 · June 20, 2006 1:08PM

Many of the seller's relatives seem to be passing:

had emergency, I waited. They were home over a week before they sent the item.
Buyer teleren ( 613) Mar-17-06 14:17 5867041373

Reply by ipokeiki:
Couldnt even be compassionate about a death in the family, negative feedback? Mar-18-06 13:45

Follow-up by teleren:
WAITED 3 WEEKS FOR THE FAMILY EMERGENCY. THEY WAITED AN ADDIONAL WEEK TO SHIP Mar-18-06 15:11

Rating Mutually Withdrawn:
Buyer and seller mutually agreed to withdraw feedback for this item.

storm

MarkJ · June 20, 2006 1:12PM

Do you think he was shilling and ebay kicked him off?

Everytime I try to check on his history I get this error message.

Feature Unavailable
This feature is temporarily unavailable. We apologize for any inconvenience and hope to have it available again soon.

MarkJ · June 20, 2006 1:17PM

You have nothing to worry about... read his Me Page

*Ipo Keiki!* Me Page

I stand by the products I sell, I will always try to make sure I put you first. The Customer is the most important thing in my my mind. If you're not happy, then neither am! So please take a look through all my listings and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

All products are shipped 24-36 hours after recieving PAYMENT. I will provide tracking numbers to anyone in the US. Buyers please pay within 48 hours of auction end.

(Unless other arrangements made through myself.)

Don't forget to add me to your favorite sellers list! Thanks for viewing and Good Luck!

CEO & President: Kealoha C. Rossiter

storm888 · June 20, 2006 1:18PM

I serached the underbidders' buying habits,
and found no evidence of a locale connection
to the seller, no evidence of change in product
selections.

Conclusion: shilling not likely, in the instant auction.

I did not search in the "second card" auction.

storm

MarkJ · June 20, 2006 1:20PM

Storm,

Why do you think ebay kicked him off?

storm888 · June 20, 2006 1:23PM

I be clueless, at this time.

The NARU could be "not related" to the subject auction.

He was sacked before there was this controversy.

Maybe his credit card expired. Could be anything,
but we will likely find out soon.

storm

Terrible luck with scammers

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