New purchase, a whole roll of VAMs...
RVDavis
Posts: 1,137 ✭
Well, almost a whole roll. I bought a partial roll (18 coins) of 7/8 TF 1878 Morgans. VAM 33 was the seller's attribution. I get VAM 33A, and I must say this coin differs a lot from the VAM 33. All of the coins have the following, which vary from the standard VAM 33 of which I have a couple of dozen examples:
Neck clash. Here is the VAM 33A photo from the VAM updates at Ashmore's site and Leroy's updates:
Here is my coin
The tailfeathers, documented as three, are actually four. Below the sixth tailfeather, going from viewer's right to left, are the remnants of another tailfeather. This fourth tailfeather is mentioned in the VAM book as occasionally very faint. This is strong and highly visible.
The VAM 33 has a broken numeral, the first 8 in the date. This coin, on the left of both loops, has no break as do my example coins. The book mentions 'some coins' have the chip in the 8.
So, thoughts opinions hate mail? What do folks think?
Rick
Neck clash. Here is the VAM 33A photo from the VAM updates at Ashmore's site and Leroy's updates:
Here is my coin
The tailfeathers, documented as three, are actually four. Below the sixth tailfeather, going from viewer's right to left, are the remnants of another tailfeather. This fourth tailfeather is mentioned in the VAM book as occasionally very faint. This is strong and highly visible.
The VAM 33 has a broken numeral, the first 8 in the date. This coin, on the left of both loops, has no break as do my example coins. The book mentions 'some coins' have the chip in the 8.
So, thoughts opinions hate mail? What do folks think?
Rick
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
0
Comments
<< <i>Where are all the VAM collectors? >>
At work.
Sounds like the VAM 33A is an early die state of the VAM 33. Most VAM 33 coins I've seen have very weak extra tailfeathers. If the clash occurred early and then was polished down, the extra tail feathers would have been polished down as well. The chip in the 8 formed much later. So depending on when the chip formed there could be the following stages of VAM 33:
1: Earliest strike with no clash, no chip, strongish tailfeathers
2: Clash (VAM 33A)
3: Polished and/or worn down clash, faint tailfeathers, no chip in 8
4: Chip in 8.
I suppose 3 and 4 could be reversed as well.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>Where are all the VAM collectors? >>
At work.
Sounds like the VAM 33A is an early die state of the VAM 33. Most VAM 33 coins I've seen have very weak extra tailfeathers. If the clash occurred early and then was polished down, the extra tail feathers would have been polished down as well. The chip in the 8 formed much later. So depending on when the chip formed there could be the following stages of VAM 33:
1: Earliest strike with no clash, no chip, strongish tailfeathers
2: Clash (VAM 33A)
3: Polished and/or worn down clash, faint tailfeathers, no chip in 8
4: Chip in 8.
I suppose 3 and 4 could be reversed as well. >>
John
I am thinking the same way. The chips in my other 33 VAMs is pretty pronounced. As I said above, the fourth TF end is pretty strong on all of these.
I see the rarity on VAM 33 is R-4 and VAM 33A is R-6 so I feel like this is a pretty big score. R-6 1878 Philadelphia VAMs are not that easy to find.
Rick
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<< <i>Always double check a VAM-33 or VAM-33A for tripled cotton bolls. There are still VAM-44 and VAM-44A specimens out there that were settled as B1 rev or VAM-33 undoubtedly. >>
I did, the instant the package arrived. Sadly, no tripled cotton bolls. I was hopeful but not optimistic if that makes any sense.
Rick
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Grin
-- Two of the coins are VAM 33A, with light clash lines coming out of the throat (no N, however).
-- All four coins show heavy clashing around the chin and lips, but none have any behind the hair. The clashing is "softer" on the VAM 33s, but it's still obviously there.
-- The fourth TF tip is visible on all four coins, but are extremely faint on the regular VAM 33s.
-- I have a progression of die chips in the first 8... one has what looks like a recessed area (!!) where the chip will be; two show a distinct chip; and the other has a blob like your coin pictured.
<< <i>I just checked the four VAM 33s I have (none are actually VAM 44s, darn it), and here's what I noticed:
-- Two of the coins are VAM 33A, with light clash lines coming out of the throat (no N, however).
-- All four coins show heavy clashing around the chin and lips, but none have any behind the hair. The clashing is "softer" on the VAM 33s, but it's still obviously there.
-- The fourth TF tip is visible on all four coins, but are extremely faint on the regular VAM 33s.
-- I have a progression of die chips in the first 8... one has what looks like a recessed area (!!) where the chip will be; two show a distinct chip; and the other has a blob like your coin pictured. >>
I too have the very heavy die clash on the chin and lips, the strongest I have seen in a Morgan myself. Here is a picture, take a look at the chin and the upper lip. I do not have clashes on my 33 coins.
1) Clashed w/throat line, but "n" is not discernible.
2) Heavy clashing around the chin and lips like already stated.
3) 4th feather tip is easily seen under the 6th feather.
4) First 8 is as clear as it can be; no recessed area, no chip, no "blob."
The die gouge at the eagle's neck wasn't mentioned. I've never seen anthing like it (except the Comet, sort of). This gouge could be used as a diagnostic. This gouge isn't mentioned in the VAM book for the 33. Is it only on the 33A? I can also see the clashed M above the d in God. So thanks guys for making one of my R-4 coins into an R-6!
On the VAM Update I also noticed the V-39A. Looks like I have one of those, too. I can't see the clashed n, but do see the clashed t. (My V-39A also has those stringy sworlies like those mentioned in other posts on other Morgans.) Maybe it's a good idea to check your V-39s, too!
Bud
This is the pleasure of VAM collecting in my opinion. Maybe R-6 is too generous eh? Dennis had two and you have one and I got a roll.
RIck
Bud
<< <i>Hey, Rick! Maybe we got all of them! What d'ya think? It's great to cherry your own collection!
Bud >>
Could be, that would be nice. Then we would need to develop a frenzy of buyer interest, sell all but one for the grandkids and go but Fiji or something.
<< <i>Obviously the VAM 33A can't be an R-6 >>
The rarity scale that Leroy uses in the VAM book is different from that used for other series. I think R-6 means there are hundreds known. That said, R-6 is still probably too high for any of the VAM 33 die stages.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>Obviously the VAM 33A can't be an R-6 >>
The rarity scale that Leroy uses in the VAM book is different from that used for other series. I think R-6 means there are hundreds known. That said, R-6 is still probably too high for any of the VAM 33 die stages. >>
I checked with Leroy last night and he said that indeed, this is still very rare and the R 6 designation is valid for VAM 33A. Coincidence scares me; maybe I just got really lucky. I collect (meaning accumulate) 7/8 TF Morgans simply as a good palce to put cash I would otherwise waste on silly things like food or medical care. The fact that I acquired a roll with this many R 6 coins is strange, but perhaps that is all it is. I am pleased.
<< <i>Thank you, I didn't realize that the VAM rariety scale was so different. I searched and found the scale. Looks like there are only three rarity levels that matter R-8 (several), R-7 (few - 10), and R-6 (several hundred) is of just minor importance. A VAM R-6 would be a Sheldon R-3 and rate as "uncommon". It would not usually command a premium. >>
In the VAM world, an R 6 is a valued coin. Given that so many folks collect Morgans, the presence of several hundred of a coin is not a deterent to valuation based upon rarity. The 'King of the VAM', 1878 P VAM 44, has an R 7. Most of the Top 100 and Hot 50 coins have R 6 designation. R 5 VAMs in mint state sell for substantial multiples of the non-VAM coin.