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Scrap sterling silver find, key date (genuine?) discovered.
BlindedByEgo
Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
I got a call from a fellow a couple of towns away who had been referred to me as someone who would give him a fair quote on scrap sterling. Some odds and ends along with it.
Glossed over the coins, 'cause they were mostly circulated common date Morgans, some various silver bars. Turns out that he was a retired industrial scrap dealer, he had boxes of stuff in his garage that finally seemed attractive to sell at the newer prices.
I was so busy with the triple beam weighing out scrap, and he didn't really have any coins to speak of, so... At the end, when we got down to the various gold scrap, my eyes were DONE. About then, he finds this "coin wallet" at the bottom of a box, and decides to throw it in. I briefly glanced at it and said "thanks" - I mean, every 2X2 was stamped "rare". I didn't give it a second thought.
A couple of days ago I looked closer. Anybody figure out what I found?
The deal was large enough that the value of the coin is a statistical blip, I just thought that it was pretty cool, him throwing it in and all. I probably owe him lunch.
It looks real to me, comparing it to mine and others. What say you?
Glossed over the coins, 'cause they were mostly circulated common date Morgans, some various silver bars. Turns out that he was a retired industrial scrap dealer, he had boxes of stuff in his garage that finally seemed attractive to sell at the newer prices.
I was so busy with the triple beam weighing out scrap, and he didn't really have any coins to speak of, so... At the end, when we got down to the various gold scrap, my eyes were DONE. About then, he finds this "coin wallet" at the bottom of a box, and decides to throw it in. I briefly glanced at it and said "thanks" - I mean, every 2X2 was stamped "rare". I didn't give it a second thought.
A couple of days ago I looked closer. Anybody figure out what I found?
The deal was large enough that the value of the coin is a statistical blip, I just thought that it was pretty cool, him throwing it in and all. I probably owe him lunch.
It looks real to me, comparing it to mine and others. What say you?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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Yowsa! It was even written on the flip!
I think you owe him more than lunch - a nice steak dinner at least!
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since 8/1/6
<< <i>That's a very nice pickup, where you sending it for certification? >>
Looks original enough - I'll probably send it in as one of my 8 "free" submissions as a Platinum CU member.
Though it was written on the flip, the pages were stuck together - sitting in the garage so long. I only glanced at the page that opened... Thoe other one with the steelies.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
edited to add: Way more than lunch!
<< <i>Yeah, nice pluck! If a dealer had done the same you all would be all over hiss ass. >>
What is a hiss ass??
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, nice pluck! If a dealer had done the same you all would be all over hiss ass. >>
What is a hiss ass?? >>
I know thats soooooo hilarious!!!!!
a slight misplenning can lead to a complete misjudegement of argument (I know I have misspelled at least one of the prior wrods)!!!!!!
So, as to not confuse the misinformed - this would be called stealing!!!!!! Im sorry im not the perfect speller, but I am willing to let you know that any sort of commendation is subject to ridicule.
A couple "schools of thought":
1. If the buyer has proper bill of sale (i.e., all sales final) for the transaction, it be a done deal.
If the find was an extreme rarity, the original seller might have some recourse, if he was taken
advantage of, but that surely is not the case here?! or
2. If the coin turns out to be the real deal, the buyer could offer to split the proceeds of
the sale of said item with the seller, in return for a bill of sale which indicates what the item is -
is this item worth that, though? In the alternative, some negotiated additional payment in return for
the same. or
3. Don't worry, be happy?
I wouldn't jump to judgments about this, myself. I am just pointing out that I would definitely
be thinking about these things had I bought the lot...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>The deal was large enough that the value of the coin is a statistical blip, I just thought that it was pretty cool, him throwing it in and all. I probably owe him lunch...... What say you? >>
IMHO, I say that's a big enough "statistical blip" that I would tell the guy what I found and confirm with him if he really wanted to get rid of it. Of course, that's me, just an honest Joe. I guess I'd never make a living in this business.
More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits." - John Nelson.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, nice pluck! If a dealer had done the same you all would be all over hiss ass. >>
What is a hiss ass?? >>
I know thats soooooo hilarious!!!!!
a slight misplenning can lead to a complete misjudegement of argument (I know I have misspelled at least one of the prior wrods)!!!!!!
So, as to not confuse the misinformed - this would be called stealing!!!!!! Im sorry im not the perfect speller, but I am willing to let you know that any sort of commendation is subject to ridicule. >>
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and some people are one.
I couldn't help but notice that some dealer has a rubber stamp stating...."RARE" to stamp on all his 2x2's.
What about the guy who puts a S-VDB in circulation? Should the person who plucks it be obligated to find the guy and compensate him? If he intentionally screwed the guy, then that would be a different story about ethics.
<< <i>Lunch would be a good gesture. You guys are harsh. The seller wasn't duped into giving the coin up. He merely threw it in like a tip. He offered it that way. If someone gives something up willingly, are you obligated to stop them just because you disagree with their choice?
What about the guy who puts a S-VDB in circulation? Should the person who plucks it be obligated to find the guy and compensate him? If he intentionally screwed the guy, then that would be a different story about ethics. >>
This guy thinks he "threw in" a silver dime worth a buck. I'm sorry, but I am too honest a person. I would have to call the guy, educate him about the dime and ask if he wanted it back. Like I said before , I could never make a living in this business. I don't have the vulture mentality to take advantage of people like that.
More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits." - John Nelson.
<< <i>That D mintmark on the 16-D looks mighty bold considering the overall wear of that coin. I wouldn't assume its real until it gets slabbed by a top tier TPGS. >>
Yes, there are a lot of added mintmarks on 16-Ds. My first thought was that this one looked wrong because of the dark toning around it. But the more I looked at it, the more I think it might be real. The shape (boxy shape, triangular hole) and placement of the mintmark (top serif above the point of the leaf, aligned with the E in ONE) seem to me like they might be right (though the pictures are a little too fuzzy for me to say for sure).
<< <i>but maybe he meant to give it up since the buyer was giving him fair value. >>
I think this would have to be a pretty big deal for a $600 or so coin to be tossed in as a tip or to be regarded as a statistical blip. I can understand the OP not noticing it during his initial examination, but now that it's been noticed, there's a definite ethical choice to be made.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.
<< <i>I'm not about ripping anybody off. The way I interpreted it was as if the guy threw in the coin. Maybe he had no idea what it is worth and does need educated, but maybe he meant to give it up since the buyer was giving him fair value. Since we all were not there for the transaction, we can not criticize the decisions made in it. >>
The buyer didn't give him fair value because the buyer says he didn't see the dime until later. Whatever. Good rip, I guess. Be proud.
More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits." - John Nelson.
There is case law out there. The ones I know about come from philately.
A dealer low-balled an offer on a collection on a walk-in. He said something
to the effect of, "It is worth $XXX to me." Turns out, it was worth much more
than that. The seller got wind of it and sued. Unfortunately for the buyer, the
seller had a witness who was there, and testified that what the dealer actually
said was, "It is worth $XXX." Makes a big difference - one is a statement of relative
worth, and the other is a form of implied appraisal. Guess how the judge ruled?
The bit about a "good" bill of sale is most important. If the seller gets a summary of
the contents of the deal, and must sign a statement that the deal is final when signed,
they have little or no recourse later on.
The ethical problem, of course, happens when something valuable is discovered later on,
upon closer inspection.
What if it had been a $50,000 coin, in this situation (this thread)? Would you change your mind
any?
Or, just another good "you suck!"
It is an interesting question.
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>I see no harm in discussing ethical what-ifs.
There is case law out there. The ones I know about come from philately.
A dealer low-balled an offer on a collection on a walk-in. He said something
to the effect of, "It is worth $XXX to me." Turns out, it was worth much more
than that. The seller got wind of it and sued. Unfortunately for the buyer, the
seller had a witness who was there, and testified that what the dealer actually
said was, "It is worth $XXX." Makes a big difference - one is a statement of relative
worth, and the other is a form of implied appraisal. Guess how the judge ruled?
The bit about a "good" bill of sale is most important. If the seller gets a summary of
the contents of the deal, and must sign a statement that the deal is final when signed,
they have little or no recourse later on.
The ethical problem, of course, happens when something valuable is discovered later on,
upon closer inspection.
What if it had been a $50,000 coin, in this situation (this thread)? Would you change your mind
any?
Or, just another good "you suck!"
It is an interesting question.
John >>
Actually, it's a fascinating question - and it's also the reason that I posted this thread.
I really wanted to read here on the forum people's reactions on what could be an inappropriate rip - or could be legitimately considered by others a serendipitous windfall.
I believe that those who know me here (through our various transactions or personal contact) know my heart and my ethics. I really don't need to have my ego stroked by what I post, or by displaying possessions, or flaunting my (meager) wealth.
I intentionally left out of the post how I handled it thus far with the seller. In general terms, a phone call was made (with a promise of lunch, btw
I have gotten a number of referrals from the person who referred me to this seller - the referrals have been made based on my ethical handling of her other clients, many of whom are rather old. Too many people out there are ready to take whatever advantage they can of the senior citizen community - I am happy to state that I am not among those people.
I don't think that I will post many more details on this particular transaction - please take my word for it that the seller (who btw is no slouch of a businessman himself) has been given full disclosure, he happily agreed to my proposed solution, and was pleased that I let him know about the find.
In the end - and this is just for me, mind you - I have to be able to look in the mirror and not hate who I see staring back at me.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>I see no harm in discussing ethical what-ifs.
There is case law out there. The ones I know about come from philately.
A dealer low-balled an offer on a collection on a walk-in. He said something
to the effect of, "It is worth $XXX to me." Turns out, it was worth much more
than that. The seller got wind of it and sued. Unfortunately for the buyer, the
seller had a witness who was there, and testified that what the dealer actually
said was, "It is worth $XXX." Makes a big difference - one is a statement of relative
worth, and the other is a form of implied appraisal. Guess how the judge ruled?
The bit about a "good" bill of sale is most important. If the seller gets a summary of
the contents of the deal, and must sign a statement that the deal is final when signed,
they have little or no recourse later on.
The ethical problem, of course, happens when something valuable is discovered later on,
upon closer inspection.
What if it had been a $50,000 coin, in this situation (this thread)? Would you change your mind
any?
Or, just another good "you suck!"
It is an interesting question.
John >>
Actually, it's a fascinating question - and it's also the reason that I posted this thread.
I really wanted to read here on the forum people's reactions on what could be an inappropriate rip - or could be legitimately considered by others a serendipitous windfall.
I believe that those who know me here (through our various transactions or personal contact) know my heart and my ethics. I really don't need to have my ego stroked by what I post, or by displaying possessions, or flaunting my (meager) wealth.
I intentionally left out of the post how I handled it thus far with the seller. In general terms, a phone call was made (with a promise of lunch, btw
I have gotten a number of referrals from the person who referred me to this seller - the referrals have been made based on my ethical handling of her other clients, many of whom are rather old. Too many people out there are ready to take whatever advantage they can of the senior citizen community - I am happy to state that I am not among those people.
I don't think that I will post many more details on this particular transaction - please take my word for it that the seller (who btw is no slouch of a businessman himself) has been given full disclosure, he happily agreed to my proposed solution, and was pleased that I let him know about the find.
In the end - and this is just for me, mind you - I have to be able to look in the mirror and not hate who I see staring back at me. >>
Please believe me when I tell you that I had no doubt about this, whatsoever, when I read your original post.
I just thought that the issues were intriguing, and worth discussing.
I wasn't by any means making any judgment about you, your methods, or your integrity.
If I was entitled to give you a "You suck" for this posting, I would...
Kind Regards,
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
And the best part is............ YOU'RE NOT A HISS ASS!!
More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits." - John Nelson.
<< <i>I don't think that I will post many more details on this particular transaction - please take my word for it that the seller (who btw is no slouch of a businessman himself) has been given full disclosure, he happily agreed to my proposed solution, and was pleased that I let him know about the find.
In the end - and this is just for me, mind you - I have to be able to look in the mirror and not hate who I see staring back at me. >>
Excellent!
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.