Does anyone think TELETRADE auctions are less than bonafide ?

ABC123 · May 25, 2006 3:44AM

Last time I checked this is the 21st Century, computers don't need 15 minutes after an auction to post winners----seems like enough time for the "phantom bidder " to strike ! Still cynical after all these years !

Dave99B · May 25, 2006 3:54AM

I’ve never understood two things about TT:

1) Why does it take so damn long for the prices to be finalized?

2) Why do I often get a coin at my exact high bid?

Makes you go “Hmmmmmm........”

But I still have a hard time believing there are shenanigans going on. That would/could be one nasty lawsuit....

Dave

segoja · May 25, 2006 4:17AM

I've bought coins below my max, so there can't be a program that takes everything to your max.

If you didn't like the price, why bid the price? Bid what you are comfortable paying.

That's not to say games aren't being played, as TT puts their own (Spectrum) coins in the auctions. Many of the high end stuff is just that. After the auction is over...about 30-45 mintues later, coins that have been bought back appear as pending. Coins sold will have a price realized. Those are the games, but they can and are played with consignors as well.

Overall a decent marketplace for coins, but not what is was a few years ago before E-Bay.

jdsinva · May 25, 2006 4:18AM

In most cases, if you go to your invoice after the auction, you can see the lots you have won and the realized price. This works even when the main page says pending.

I suspect most people's max bid is often around fair market value, compensating for fees et al. It stands to reason that your max bid will be hit more often than not. Just coincidental.

They send me my winning lots way faster than Heritage does, let me tell you!

Petarded · May 25, 2006 4:22AM

I'd like to add a third thing I dont understand about Teletrade in regard to Dave99B's 'things I dont understand about Teletrade'....

3) Why do most (and more than most, damn near all) items sell for the EXACT amount all the time? On any given item, I can see 4-5 past auctions for the same date/MM, and the prices are all the EXACT same...more times than not, the same price is realized whether its in a PCGS holder or NGC holder...DEFINITELY makes you go 'HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM'

wondercoin · May 25, 2006 4:23AM

Actually, I haven't done it in a while, but, whenever I wanted to, I could get auction results around 3-5 minutes following the auction by simply calling the (800) number for results. I've seen nothing to suggest anything other than a CLEAN auction out of Teletrade in the near 20 years I have been doing business with them.

Wondercoin

ABC123 · May 25, 2006 4:30AM

Games are games--but at least after the whistle blows, bell rings etc. the games is over---not 15 minutes later ! Didn't know Spectrum was involved in this auction also. Remember they (Spectrum) wrote the rules for the Ohio sham auction also ! Everything has an answer !

Dave99B · May 25, 2006 4:50AM

Why do most (and more than most, damn near all) items sell for the EXACT amount all the time?

Excellent question.

I was looking at a Walker Liberty half the other night, and I noticed that the previous 5 examples had all sold for $588 (including fees)?

Different examples of the same date, spanning around 6 months in time.

Is the TT marketplace really that efficient?

Hmmmm……

Dave

rwyarmch · May 25, 2006 4:50AM

The following lots consigned to the May 31, 2006 auction will NOT be bid on by the consignor. Further, Teletrade has NOT indicated that bidders will automatically be taken to their max (maybe just an oversight.) Finally, the images are quite decent.

1018 1c 1941 RD ANACS 64 Proof
1023 1c 1951 RD PCGS 65 Proof
1024 1c 1952 RD PCGS 66 Proof
1087 5c 1937S PCGS 65
1095 5c 1941 PCGS 65 Proof
1116 5c 1951 PCGS 65 Proof
1117 5c 1951 PCGS 66 Proof
1120 5c 1952 PCGS 65 Proof
1121 5c 1952 PCGS 66 Proof
1248 25c 1941 ANACS 65 Proof
1432 50c 1953 PCGS 65 Proof
1441 50c 1955 PCGS 65 Proof
1459 50c 1962 PCGS 65 Proof

jdsinva · May 25, 2006 4:57AM

3 out of 6 posters to your thread interject opinion that there is nothing wrong with Teletrade's auctions. If you already had your mind made up, why ask for opinions?

braddick · May 25, 2006 5:03AM

I bid on a coin within the last seconds of the auction last night on Teletrade. It had sat at $310.00 for a couple of hours before my bid. I placed a (silly) bid of $600.00 as I really wanted the coin.

It closed, with me as the winner, at $320.00
Certainly if Teletrade is up to hijinks or shananigans it would have shown up on this lot.

There's tomfoolery with consigners, I'm sure, but strictly with Teletrade? Highly doubtful.

MoneyCollector · May 25, 2006 5:16AM

I had an identical experience as Braddick. I bid $290 in the last minute and won the item for $33. I've had others not hit my max in the past, so no games that I'm aware of.

bushmaster8 · May 25, 2006 5:17AM

<< Overall a decent marketplace for coins, but not what is was a few years ago before E-Bay. >>

Agreed. But there have also been quite a few improvements over the years that go unnoticed by most.

For example, consignors are no longer permitted to bid on their own coins during an auction. So if any consignor does want to bid up their coins, they must have set the reserve (max bid) before the auction begins. At least this prevents the schilling that used to go on there.

Many more behind the scenes improvements have taken place over the years to protect TT's own butt.

For example, it used to be that if you wanted to be a troublemaker, you could send a bag of circulated wheaties to PCGS to be graded under the TT program, and then bail out on them, leaving TT holding the bag for $55,000 (the grading fees).

Dave99B · May 25, 2006 5:23AM

Certainly if Teletrade is up to hijinks or shananigans it would have shown up on this lot.

Not necessary, Tom.

Well written software to “bump up“ bids would likely be designed to have some general randomness to it. Clearly if you bumped all or most bids up to the max, people would catch on pretty quickly that something was amiss. Make things random and its much harder to prove as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not implying Teletrade is up to something. I just have a “feeling” something odd is occurring. But that doesn’t make it so.

Dave

Cameonut · May 25, 2006 5:33AM

I am another skeptic when it comes to the integrity behind TT auctions.

I have noticed some of the same results as other posters - win exactly at my max bid (even if it is an odd amount), very high reserves, coins all sold at the same price, etc. I tried to sell one coin last year with a reserve of $700 - I watched as the bids rose stedily throught the auction - and stop at exactly $700. I do not think anyone was bidding on the coin - but the computer made it appear so. When I asked TT about it, they would not explain.

I do not like the fact that I can't see who I am bidding against nor whether a reserve was in effect. That just adds to the potential mistrust.

Since all this happens under a veil of secrecy, I have almost totally stopped bidding in Teletrade auctions. And I have stopped submitting coins for sale. I prefer the more open venues like Ebay, Heritage, etc (and I know they have quirks of their own).

bushmaster8 · May 25, 2006 5:38AM

<< I have noticed some of the same results as other posters - win exactly at my max bid (even if it is an odd amount.... >>

What do you mean by odd amount?

Teletrade bids are always at published, predetermined increments. Your statement doesn't seem to be watertight.

100proof1957 · May 25, 2006 5:43AM

I watch Jeopardy every night and it starts @ 7 PM sharp

why can i bid @ 7:01 and lose to a sniper @ 7:02 ?

Drizzt · May 25, 2006 5:45AM

It would be nice if all their auctions started at $3.00

I always assumed Teletrade was also bidding on lots for them to sell. It would almost be silly of them to sit there and let a Peace Dollar sell for $6.00

Hard to catch a break there anymore when starting bids are so high.

wondercoin · May 25, 2006 5:56AM

Let's not forget the "other side of the coin" - results as a seller in their auctions. The other week, my check from Teletrade was roughly nearly $25,000 higher than the (reasonable) reserves I placed on the individual coins that sold in the sales for that week. I take in multitudes of consignment coins each month from collectors for me to handle through the Teletrade system. Needless to say, my consignors were "tickled pink" to get the report from me that the coins realized such a huge premium to the reserves I placed.

Wondercoin

braddick · May 25, 2006 6:01AM

<< I watch Jeopardy every night and it starts @ 7 PM sharp why can i bid @ 7:01 and lose to a sniper @ 7:02 ? >>

The last bid entering the system will always be a bidder's high(er) bid by one level.

For example in your case someone may have bid at 6:55 a dollar amount that was higher than your 7:01 bid. Teletrade's system would then, after your bid (when the bidding is closed) place the next level bid for the bidder at 6:55.

If your 7:01 bid (really probably 7:00 as your clock may be off...) was higher than the max the 6:55 bidder placed you would have been the subsequent winner.

Always keep in mind: when the time runs out for all bidders Teletrade sweeps the high bids for bidders who placed a bid higher than the highest recorded at closing and will then bump that lot.

moparsRULE · May 25, 2006 6:07AM

TT dosnt end at 10:00

Text

moparsRULE · May 25, 2006 6:15AM

I was following the 1891-CC VAM-3 fitzgerald collection . I had 10 tracking and they all keeped going up in price as if someone was bidding.
2 sold .

MrBreeze · May 25, 2006 6:20AM

I have not had a single problem with Teletrade. I, too, have bid crazy bids, and have never been pushed to my max bid. I actually underbid a few items by accident, and ended up winning them. I had no problem with that, either.

toreador · May 25, 2006 6:57AM

This topic comes up all the time. But if you read the conditions of sale at teletrade, you realize that these are in fact auctions, albeit auctions in which some lots have reserves, others do not. If you see items sell for the same price, it means that the reserves are often set at the same levels for comparable coins and/or the liquid marketplace determines the values which teletrade certainly does. The consignor has the right to place or not place a reserve and pays a commission for unsolds as in any live auction. I think these auctions are as legitimate if not more so than for any live auctioneers, esp since teletrade is part of a publicly traded entity.

pharmer · May 25, 2006 7:12AM

<< I'd like to add a third thing I dont understand about Teletrade in regard to Dave99B's 'things I dont understand about Teletrade'....

3) Why do most (and more than most, damn near all) items sell for the EXACT amount all the time? On any given item, I can see 4-5 past auctions for the same date/MM, and the prices are all the EXACT same...more times than not, the same price is realized whether its in a PCGS holder or NGC holder...DEFINITELY makes you go 'HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM' >>

My guess is that some of these lots are teletrade's coins, and they have a consistent reserve on the same date/mm/grade. The ones you are seeing with similar end prices sat at the reserve until someone bid that last increment. At least, that's what I've always thought.

Cameonut · May 25, 2006 7:41AM

<< What do you mean by odd amount? >>

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Here are a few examples - I bid $280 instead of $300 or $1150 instead of $1100 or $1200. I win at my max bid.

I realize that there are only so many bids increments (I started bidding at TT at its inception in the phone-in days), but I don't usually bid an even number like $500 or $1000.

I will say that I have won a few lots at less than my max bid but they are always below $100.

ScarsdaleCoin · May 25, 2006 8:32AM

I would venture to guess that certain dealers post set bids for certain coins that they deal with.....that may explain why certain coins sell at the same price

RBinTex · May 25, 2006 8:32AM

Does anyone think they're not?

"I've bought coins below my max, so there can't be a program that takes everything to your max.

Those are the ones that consignors own & not the house.

DennisH · May 25, 2006 8:48AM

"Does anyone think TELETRADE auctions are less than bonafide?"

I have serious doubts.

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2006 8:52AM

2) Why do I often get a coin at my exact high bid?

Makes you go “Hmmmmmm........”

But I still have a hard time believing there are shenanigans going on. That would/could be one nasty lawsuit....

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have won a number of auctions that never approached anywhere near my high bid. Maybe yer just unlucky

.

ABC123 · May 25, 2006 9:28AM

Segoja said it all when he mentioned Teletrade and Spectrum in the same sentence !

Frankcoins · May 25, 2006 9:36AM

There are only so many bidding "slots" $240, $260, etc. You can't place the same bid as another bidder, so by the end of the auction, virtually all of the "near market value" slots are filled. So if you are the winner (in an efficient auction) the odds are very high that the slots lower than your bid are filled with an underbidder's, therefore you will win AT your max bid.

mercurynut · May 25, 2006 10:23AM

Does anyone think TELETRADE auctions are less than bonafide ?

I stopped bidding on them over a year ago just because they are not!

Frankcoins · May 25, 2006 12:15PM

<< Does anyone think TELETRADE auctions are less than bonafide ?

I stopped bidding on them over a year ago just because they are not! >>

So you have proof of this?

majorbigtime · May 25, 2006 12:41PM

I smell something funny--like a midget in a crowded elevator!

orie · May 25, 2006 12:46PM

I’ve been buying coins since you bid by phone, so that’s been around 20 years. My guess is that I have one of the earliest customer’s numbers.

I see no problem buying coins because you set your price and see what happens.

The problem I have is selling coins. The reason is, I suspect they have a few tiers of seller’s commissions and of course there’re the house’s coins. A very high number of these are bought back; therefore, knowledgeable buyers aren’t giving much creditability to their auctions.

That makes it dang hard for the seller paying full buyback commissions in this atmosphere to play the game.

roadrunner · May 25, 2006 2:38PM

I watched the generic gold closely about 2 years ago (esp bulk lots of 5 and 10) and noticed that $20 Saints and Libs in bulk always sold for over current retail. They "sold" for over ebay money or at a level I felt no buyer in their right mind would pay for. Yet week after week, if a Saint was wholesalinng for say $700, and retail was $775, then TT would fetch $800-$825. The number of times this occurred just seemed way too excessive to be due to excited newbies. Why didn't those newbies eventually go to ebay and get stuff for less? Just my 2 cents.

roadrunner

Does anyone think TELETRADE auctions are less than bonafide ?

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