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What's with the big surge of 1964 Nickels?
ms70
Posts: 13,951 ✭✭✭✭✭
Over the last 2 or 3 months I've constantly been getting 1964 P and D mint nickels in change (North Jersey). Just a little while ago I was at the local Dunkin Donuts and laying in the tip cup were two of them. What's the deal?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
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<< <i>14150 posts and you don't know the answer to that? This is a joke right? Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? >>
What the hell is that supposed to mean? For someone who seemingly has a great deal of respect on this forum I thought I had you pegged as one who would happily educate others as opposed to insulting them.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? is not a complete sentence, and it would be those collectors. A published author with 10,000+ posts should know better. This is a joke, right?
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>14150 posts and you don't know the answer to that? This is a joke right? Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? >>
I don't know the answer either.....
You can now run around here thinking you're better then me as well.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
As required by law, all United States coins are currently dated with the year of their issuance or minting. In 1964, however, a coin shortage caused speculation in rolls and bags of 1964 coins. To prevent such speculation, Congress passed legislation declaring that the United States Mint could still use the 1964 date on coinage after the 1964 calendar year. So in 1965, all denominations of United States coins continued to be struck with the 1964 date. In 1965, Congress mandated that the United States Mint continue to use the 1964 date on all 90 percent silver coins. However, because clad coins (which were not 90 percent silver) were not as likely to spark speculation, they would be dated no earlier than 1965. This meant that all of the 90 percent silver coins (half-dollar, quarter-dollar, and 10-cent coins) that the United States Mint manufactured in 1964, 1965, and 1966 bore the date 1964. (The last of the 90 percent silver quarter-dollar coins was struck in January 1966, the last of the 10-cent coins in February 1966, and the last of the half-dollar coins in April 1966.) All of the clad coins actually manufactured in 1965 bear the 1965 date. The clad coins were struck with the 1965 date through July 31, 1966. (The first clad 10-cent coin was struck in December 1965, the first clad quarter-dollar coin in August 1965, and the first clad half-dollar coin in December 1965.) As one step toward catching up on normal coin dating, in December 1965, the 1964 date on five-cent coins and one-cent coins was changed to 1965. From December 1965 through July 31, 1966, all one-cent coins and five-cent coins were struck with the 1965 date. All denominations of United States coins minted from August 1 through December 31, 1966 carried the 1966 date. Normal dating procedures resumed on January 1, 1967, and continued through 1974. In 1973, to honor the upcoming United States Bicentennial, new legislation authorized design changes in the reverse designs of the one-dollar coins, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin.
<< <i>From the redbook. They made 1,024,672,000 1964s and 1,787,297,160 1964 Ds. All the other dates and mintmarks have approx. 100,000,000 or so (give or take). This makes it something like 20 times more likely that a worn down looking nickel is either a 64 or 64 D or something like that. >>
Thanks for the answer, and thanks for not insulting us and telling us we collect numbers and know nothing about coins..
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
It's not impossible that a substantial group of segregated coins were released into circulation,
but these get dispersed very rapidly so it's unlikely if they are seen in more than two places or
more than a couple weeks apart. It's actually quite unusual to find any evidence that collectors
have been in circulating coinage because collectors don't pay much attention to it. When you do
see evidence it's usually a few rolls.
Even if the FED separated a large number of coins for a study and then released the various
dates in different areas it just wouldn't show up to most observers and those who did spot it
would see it disappear quite rapidly.
I have to suspect that these are just being noticed more or that the sample is sufficiently small
as for it to be caused by mere chance.
<< <i>
<< <i>From the redbook. They made 1,024,672,000 1964s and 1,787,297,160 1964 Ds. All the other dates and mintmarks have approx. 100,000,000 or so (give or take). This makes it something like 20 times more likely that a worn down looking nickel is either a 64 or 64 D or something like that. >>
Thanks for the answer, and thanks for not insulting us and telling us we collect numbers and know nothing about coins.. >>
That's right!!! No-one in their right mind would buy or sell pop top slabs at the expense of the integrety of the hobby! This is unheard of! Everyone buys the coin and not the slab!
Also, having to explain the numbers as MrSpud did, can be just as insulting!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I have over fifteen hundred posts and I'll be the first to admit, I know very little about anything except roofing. ( that's cuz i am just a little smarter than water
And of course, most of my comments ain't worth a plug nickel.
one more thing I need to say. In 1964 the mint stopped using silver to a large degree, moving to 40% on dimes , quarters and halves. This move alone caused a major hoarding of US COINS that year. NOT JUST SILVER..... but I suspect nickels, too.
As a matter of fact, in the first few years after 1970.... about the only silver coins you could find in circulation were pieces struck in 1964.... and this covers all coins. I think there was just a massive amount hoarded and it's taken forty years for them old boys to realize them things ain't never gonna be worth more than a nickel.
someone already answered the post...
missed the point or if he phrased his responce so poorly. Whatever the case
I do believe we owe him the benefit of the doubt for five years of superb posts.
10,000+ posts certainly outweigh one of dubious value.
I hesitate to take this one back to the top but perhaps more good than harm
will come of it.
<< <i>Conder101's post seems so much out of character one must wonder if we've
missed the point or if he phrased his responce so poorly. Whatever the case
I do believe we owe him the benefit of the doubt for five years of superb posts.
10,000+ posts certainly outweigh one of dubious value.
I hesitate to take this one back to the top but perhaps more good than harm
will come of it. >>
There's nothing wrong with what Condor said, he has every right to voice his opinion however he feels when so inclined to do so. If anyone has had their feelings hurt over such an honest statement then they must fit into that catagory of an imposter who buys the slab and not the coin. As for MS70, I have no idea if he's one of them. I must assume he's not, that he's a very serious collector of high quality coins. The only reason "those" people get bent over such statements is because it puts fear into their imaginary investments. In other words, when large sums of money are paid out for "those" pop top numbers slabs and merely put into registry sets without any regards to the quality of coin, this common practice can only damage the integrity of the coin hobby. As a Jefferson nickel collector, there are several, perhaps a thousand coins that I'd like to see that reside in a few of those top 10 registry sets. I'm in absolute amazement with deep pocket collectors who haven't spent a dime on photographing their so called high quality coins. If I have offended anyone with my statements, I offer no apology. I would like to see "those" people who buy the slab just come forward and just say so. You can't go on forever pretending you're a coin collector! This information would also be very helpful for the true coin collectors who would rather not get you confused or mixed up in a true numismatic discussion on collecting real high quality coins.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Trying to embarrass someone for asking a casual question is wrong, and has nothing to do with what anyone collects. I have no idea what ms70 collects, but I don't feel the need to belittle him for his post. JMO
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>
There's nothing wrong with what Conder said... >>
I didn't mean so much to imply there was something wrong with it as that it was out of character be-
cause it didn't really contribute much and because it could have been phrased equally honestly without
sounding accusatory. I'm also not sure I even understood it. We don't all read all the posts or threads
so anyone could miss anything.
<< <i>
<< <i>14150 posts and you don't know the answer to that? This is a joke right? Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? >>
What the hell is that supposed to mean? For someone who seemingly has a great deal of respect on this forum I thought I had you pegged as one who would happily educate others as opposed to insulting them. >>
Just to add; I believe a better response to Condor's statement should have fostered a challange in a display of coin collections. I would want to prove that I'm not an imposter but rather a very astute collector of high quality coins in respect to strike, condition and eye appeal. I believe this could have been a very good learning experience for all who have any interest in seeing great coins. Perhaps this is of yet, a very strong possibility. I for one would like to know. It would be great for the integrity of the hobby if there is some kind of shown support given to a few of those so-called top registry sets. In other words, having a few other collectors vouching for the best quality collections because they have been personally viewed by others. That they are indeed, outstanding collections of high quality coins in respect to each coin's strike, condition and eye appeal. This is definitely what the hobby needs!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>14150 posts and you don't know the answer to that? This is a joke right? Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? >>
What the hell is that supposed to mean? For someone who seemingly has a great deal of respect on this forum I thought I had you pegged as one who would happily educate others as opposed to insulting them. >>
Just to add; I believe a better response to Condor's statement should have fostered a challange in a display of coin collections. I would want to prove that I'm not an imposter but rather a very astute collector of high quality coins in respect to strike, condition and eye appeal. I believe this could have been a very good learning experience for all who have any interest in seeing great coins. Perhaps this is of yet, a very strong possibility. I for one would like to know. It would be great for the integrity of the hobby if there is some kind of shown support given to a few of those so-called top registry sets. In other words, having a few other collectors vouching for the best quality collections because they have been personally viewed by others. That they are indeed, outstanding collections of high quality coins in respect to each coin's strike, condition and eye appeal. This is definitely what the hobby needs!
Leo >>
But... ... the topic was 1964 nickels.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>14150 posts and you don't know the answer to that? This is a joke right? Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? >>
What the hell is that supposed to mean? For someone who seemingly has a great deal of respect on this forum I thought I had you pegged as one who would happily educate others as opposed to insulting them. >>
Just to add; I believe a better response to Condor's statement should have fostered a challange in a display of coin collections. I would want to prove that I'm not an imposter but rather a very astute collector of high quality coins in respect to strike, condition and eye appeal. I believe this could have been a very good learning experience for all who have any interest in seeing great coins. Perhaps this is of yet, a very strong possibility. I for one would like to know. It would be great for the integrity of the hobby if there is some kind of shown support given to a few of those so-called top registry sets. In other words, having a few other collectors vouching for the best quality collections because they have been personally viewed by others. That they are indeed, outstanding collections of high quality coins in respect to each coin's strike, condition and eye appeal. This is definitely what the hobby needs!
Leo >>
But... ... the topic was 1964 nickels. >>
And the answer was thought to be silly or Condor knows something about ms70 that we don't. Why take offense?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
But... ... the topic was 1964 nickels.
And the answer was thought to be silly or Condor knows something about ms70 that we don't. Why take offense?
Leo >>
I agree!
<< <i>Over the last 2 or 3 months I've constantly been getting 1964 P and D mint nickels in change (North Jersey). Just a little while ago I was at the local Dunkin Donuts and laying in the tip cup were two of them. What's the deal? >>
Geez, crack a friggin' Red Book and do some simple math! 2,811,969,160 minted. That's almost 3 billion coins.
<< <i>Leo,
Trying to embarrass someone for asking a casual question is wrong, and has nothing to do with what anyone collects. I have no idea what ms70 collects, but I don't feel the need to belittle him for his post. JMO >>
Hi Don
Obviously, Condor was making a point with what he stated. I'd like to hear more but I believe this thread will die as usual.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Over the last 2 or 3 months I've constantly been getting 1964 P and D mint nickels in change (North Jersey). Just a little while ago I was at the local Dunkin Donuts and laying in the tip cup were two of them. What's the deal? >>
Geez, crack a friggin' Red Book and do some simple math! 2,811,969,160 minted. That's almost 3 billion coins.
At the beginning of this thread, I wanted to say that if you're in my area, expect to see (close to 8) thousands of 69-D and 70-D's in circulation because eventually, they're going to the bank.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I get a few rolls of nickels (10-20) every week from my local bank here on Long Island. By far and away, the most common date/mm I come across is the 1964/1964-D nickels. More so than recent dates. There are 2-3 per roll usually- sometimes more. I'm usually disappointed by this because when I see a worn nickel, I hope its a pre 1960 date but more often than not, its a 1964.
Out of every 10 rolls, I find about:
20-25 1964/64-D nickels
4-7 pre 1960 dated Jefferson nickels
Out of every 100 rolls, I find about:
1-2 Buffalo nickels (vintage 1938 or earlier)
2-3 War silver nickels
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Well first off, thank you to the more respectable people who understand this is a discussion forum and for engaging in friendly & informative posts.
As for the rest, the speculations about me show that there are a bunch of "holier than thou" types on board who are certain they are far above me in numismatic knowledge.
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. That doesn't matter to me. I just thought I was among fellow collectors who like to share knowledge & enjoyed chatting about the hobby. For
the most part I know that is the case here but sadly it's not 100%. Sorry for trying to just have some conversation with people. It's no wonder why so many "newbies" come on
here and tell us that they mainly lurk.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>As for the rest, the speculations about me show that there are a bunch of "holier than thou" types on board who are certain they are far above me in numismatic knowledge. >>
I just figured you were smarter than your question makes you seem.
It appears I've been under the mistaken assumption that it is someone who collects coins.
<< <i>Would someone please define for me "a true coin collector"?
It appears I've been under the mistaken assumption that it is someone who collects coins. >>
No, no, no! A "true" coin collector is one who collects what others think they should.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Would someone please define for me "a true coin collector"?
It appears I've been under the mistaken assumption that it is someone who collects coins. >>
No, no, no! A "true" coin collector is one who collects what others think they should.
Russ, NCNE >>
and 'knows' what they know.....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
There will never be a profitable way to mint cents from here on out, doesn't matter what metal/plastic they use.. in 2009, after they do a commemorative cent, they should retire the cent.
my nickel calculations
453 grams in a pound
one nickels contains 3.75 grams copper, 1.75 grams nickel
copper is currently 3.50 per pound
nickel is currently 8.80 per pound
258 nickels make a pound of nickel
121 nickels make a pound of copper
8.8/258=.034
3.5/121=.029
.034+.029=.063
<< <i>Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? is not a complete sentence, and it would be those collectors. A published author with 10,000+ posts should know better. This is a joke, right? >>
You're right I should. Not a joke just late night poor writing.
And all of you are right I should not have been so flippent. I believe I probably misinterpreted the original question as well. I thought he was asking why the 1964 nickels were so common. Being as ms70 has been an active member here since 2002 with over 14 thousand posts to his credit I could not belive he was unaware of the date freeze and the unusually large coinage of nickels with the 1964 date. I thought possibly his question was in jest, hence my "is this a joke?" (I am not always able to tell if someone is being serious or just pulling my leg.)
I believe now that what ms70 was asking is why so any more than usual are showing up in circulation now as compared to their normal prevelence. That is a different matter completely and a sensible question. The answer to which is believe it or not probably the rising price of silver. (Plus some Coinstar influence.)
Why would silver prices bring 1964 nickels out of hiding? Because back when the silver started disappearing from circulation, many people in the general public believe it or not didn't know what the composiion of the coins were, but did know hat the cut off or "majic" year was 1964. And they hoarded everything with the 1964 date. Now that silver is going way up again the general (got to run and shut down coputer will finish this in a little while.)
Ok I'm back, now to continue.
Now that siver is going way up again the genera public is once again beginning to dig out their silver hoards and selling them. This eans that all those 1964 nickels are lso being taken to the dealers. When they find that they have no premim value they are then dumped back into circulation resulting in an unusual influx of that date in pocket change. I observed this happening all the time back in 1979 and 80 while I was working with a silver buyer.
As for my comment on the people who buy numbers and don'tactually know anything about the coins themselves, well perhaps that was uncalled for and I should not have implied that ms70 may have been have been such a collector without knowing him better. But you must admit that such collectors do exist, and unfortunately they are more common than I would like. And with my passion for the coins themselves and their place in the history of the times in which they were created, I tend to get a little carried away in my irritation with those who simply beem to see them as a way to profit financially and I let that cloud my judgement.
There's the Conder we know and love.
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>Or are you one of these collectors that just buys slabs by the numbers who doesn't know anything about coins? is not a complete sentence, and it would be those collectors. A published author with 10,000+ posts should know better. This is a joke, right? >>
You're right I should. Not a joke just late night poor writing.
And all of you are right I should not have been so flippent. I believe I probably misinterpreted the original question as well. I thought he was asking why the 1964 nickels were so common. Being as ms70 has been an active member here since 2002 with over 14 thousand posts to his credit I could not belive he was unaware of the date freeze and the unusually large coinage of nickels with the 1964 date. I thought possibly his question was in jest, hence my "is this a joke?" (I am not always able to tell if someone is being serious or just pulling my leg.)
I believe now that what ms70 was asking is why so any more than usual are showing up in circulation now as compared to their normal prevelence. That is a different matter completely and a sensible question. The answer to which is believe it or not probably the rising price of silver. (Plus some Coinstar influence.)
Why would silver prices bring 1964 nickels out of hiding? Because back when the silver started disappearing from circulation, many people in the general public believe it or not didn't know what the composiion of the coins were, but did know hat the cut off or "majic" year was 1964. And they hoarded everything with the 1964 date. Now that silver is going way up again the general (got to run and shut down coputer will finish this in a little while.) >>
Apology accepted!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Cheers,
BigBen
Edit- It looks like Condor101 apologized and I'm glad that we can all move on and get back to coins!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
2. thanks for the (albeit brief) shake-up yesterday. i bookmarked the thread cause i thought we were off and running to at least 150 replies. to think, a line drawn in the sand and sides being taken without Legend involvement!!
3. was the 79-80 silver buyer SilverTowne??
4. please install spell check and tell your fingers to slow down.
Family needs no reason to fight, just the fact that it's family.
What I wanna know is: Who are those two or three uncles that sit in the corner and just get quietly plastered until at some point they blow everything out of perportion over too little whipped cream on the pumkin pie?
Family and holidays... gotta love em both.
I agree I could really use spellcheck. I have that ability when I'm working in Word or my email, but I don't have a connection to a spellcheck from the forum reply function. I could possibly write my responses in Word, spellcheck, and then cut and paste them here, but I begin to run into resource problems on my machine. (I typically have five or more programs up and running either in the forground or background and it is stretching the limits of my resources.) If I were to open Word and load the spellcheck dictionaries, it would slow thngs down even more. I need to add another 512 M of memory to my laptop.