can it be sold - What makes up the stampe market?

ad4400 · May 1, 2006 10:31AM

In conjunction with my 'another inheritence' post, I recently asked a local coin/stamp dealer or two if they would be interested in either trading for coins or buying the plate block or mint sheets from 1930s-1960s. The answer was a resounding no. Apparently they can't even move what they have in stock and one guy was selling sheets at face. Is the market simply that non-liquid?

One dealer did say that he has recently sold some stock that has sat forever, speculated that stamps might be on a rebound and that now would be a time to buy, but selling would be best left for at least another few years. Sound legit.

I know I've throw a lot out here in the last two posts, a lot of it impossible to answer without more specifics, but if any board members have the time and inclination to help, I would be happy to start a correspondence and break it down into more bite size chunks.

dougwtx · May 2, 2006 3:39AM

Hi and welcome to the Stamp forum. Its great getting new people here.

Stamps are still very liquid; just go to any major stamp show. You just need to right material; which means certain 19th century issues in very fine or better condition. Most stamps from 1930 on are not worth much; but there are exceptions. It also has to do with condition.

You can compare this to a beginner coin collector whose may have tons of wheats and "scrap" silver. He may think he has a gold mine, but when going to sell at a dealer, he may be very disappointed. It all depends on issue and condition.

A starting point which has been mentioned in previous threads is to get a copy of the Scott Catalogs. This can be compared to the Red Book for US coins and the Krause catalogs for foreign coins and paper money. If selling, don't expect near cat value unless you have good material. An average to go by is you might expect 1/3 of cat if selling for US material. If foreign, expect anywhere from 3%-10% of cat if selling. If material is faulty, expect even less. You can also search auctions for selling prices. Of course if you have popular material, you can even get more than cat value.

Stamp collecting is very similar to coin collecting.

Feel free to PM me with any questions and I'll be more than glad to help.

DeutscherGeist · May 3, 2006 6:46AM

stamp collecting like coin collecting?

I guess it is when it comes to supply and demand dictating values and condition being everything.

I have a few mint stamps from Germany and USA. I have some FDCs. Prices are very low, but I keep it for fun since I worked hard getting them and keeping them mint.

philactica · May 3, 2006 8:27AM

<< In conjunction with my 'another inheritence' post, I recently asked a local coin/stamp dealer or two if they would be interested in either trading for coins or buying the plate block or mint sheets from 1930s-1960s. The answer was a resounding no. Apparently they can't even move what they have in stock and one guy was selling sheets at face. Is the market simply that non-liquid?

One dealer did say that he has recently sold some stock that has sat forever, speculated that stamps might be on a rebound and that now would be a time to buy, but selling would be best left for at least another few years. Sound legit.

I know I've throw a lot out here in the last two posts, a lot of it impossible to answer without more specifics, but if any board members have the time and inclination to help, I would be happy to start a correspondence and break it down into more bite size chunks. >>

Can it be sold ? was the question !
Of course it can be sold. It depends on the value YOU attach to it.
To sell at a not give-away price you need to fastforward your philatelic knowledge by doing was recommended else where in the thread.

I think I can safely say the run of mill stamp material globally is overstocked from certain years.
The basic indicator was visible in all catologues. From a certain year they show only mint never hinged prices. If you have hinged you take another price dip - quality.

Many years ago it was a challenge to get all the stamps from one Country, some try still today.
This does not happen any more as most of our younger collectors are taught to get the better stamp - the high value, or flaw item - it is the delight to have something more special then the next one.
That is one reason we have stamp shows - to show our gems.

Gems are mostly beyond the pocket of our young stamp youth, the latter also declining because of other interest.
This brings us back to the overstocked material of dealers who need to make some profit on dead stock. There are very few today who today want a stamp or set of recent past years per dealer. So of the 1000 regular customers few would want a recent issue of 1985. Those who collect this way have regular orders and get the latest issue from their regular supplier.
To sell !
If you can make the time to sell you will find it quite entertaining, a learning curve or plain fun in doing so.
The secret is - know what you sell, so equip yourself and you may yet find a $100 worth stamp the dealer would have picked up on. Only you can be rewarded if you make the effort.
Then sell the rarities locally and run of the mill in a foreign Countries were ther may not be an overstock scenario.
You will sell, all depends on your efforts. Good quality material may be overstopcked locally but there is a bigger world.
Enjoy your "hobby"

LabMan · May 5, 2006 6:18AM

Stamp collectors for the most part are an aging (myself included) and dying breed. At 46 I am the youngest member of my local stamp club. I am also a coin collector and the local coin club has many young members including teenagers. I also attend stamp shows which seem to be more sparsely attended each year.

Why the difference? Well, first of all there is a normal human attraction to money, gold, and silver, giving coin collecting an inherent advantage. Coins are more durable, you can hold them in your hand, you don't risk destroying them each time you handle them. They are much easier to sell and at much closer values to what the catalogues say they are worth. I buy coins at auction from David Lawrence and Heritage Auctions and you see coins going for more than catalogue value all of the time. An exceedingly rare occurence with stamps.

I have grown to dislike the U.S. postal service because of the switch to self adhesive stamps which often don't separate well making them harder to mount in albums. To me they are the bane or stamp collecting and I hate them. I have stopped buying all modern U.S. stamps because of them. Then the USPS seems to make stamps for any and all reasons no matter how silly. Also political correctness has run rampant in what is deemed good material to be on a stamp.

In the past it was mainly significant people, places and events. Now there are annual stamps for every religion, cartoon character, celebrity and whatever the USPS feels will sell.

With all of that said, I still love my stamp collection. There is so much to learn and so much beauty in the old stamps. I can spend hours flipping through the pages of my albums. I have learned much history and geography through stamps.

dougwtx · May 5, 2006 9:17AM

<< Stamp collectors for the most part are an aging (myself included) and dying breed. At 46 I am the youngest member of my local stamp club. I am also a coin collector and the local coin club has many young members including teenagers. I also attend stamp shows which seem to be more sparsely attended each year. >>

I agree. Seems the mint's quarter program attracted a lot of young ones, but the USPS just hasn't found their ticket.

<< Why the difference? Well, first of all there is a normal human attraction to money, gold, and silver, giving coin collecting an inherent advantage. Coins are more durable, you can hold them in your hand, you don't risk destroying them each time you handle them. They are much easier to sell and at much closer values to what the catalogues say they are worth. I buy coins at auction from David Lawrence and Heritage Auctions and you see coins going for more than catalogue value all of the time. An exceedingly rare occurence with stamps. >>

Good point. What kid wouldn't want to hold a piece of gold or silver. Give them a US Sc#85a; a $2.5million stamp; and they could care less, until you told them how much it was worth. Auctions seem to go both ways. The larger outfits seem to sell near cat or above. Depends on the auction and type of material.

<< I have grown to dislike the U.S. postal service because of the switch to self adhesive stamps which often don't separate well making them harder to mount in albums. To me they are the bane or stamp collecting and I hate them. I have stopped buying all modern U.S. stamps because of them. Then the USPS seems to make stamps for any and all reasons no matter how silly. Also political correctness has run rampant in what is deemed good material to be on a stamp. >>

IMO, they are trying to find the ticket to attract new collectors. Any purchased stamp, but unused for postage, is just pure profit for the USPS.

<< With all of that said, I still love my stamp collection. There is so much to learn and so much beauty in the old stamps. I can spend hours flipping through the pages of my albums. I have learned much history and geography through stamps. >>

I love mine too. My wife is a teacher and I just love asking her about a country from one of my stamps that she never heard of. Of course, its a dead country.

edueku · May 5, 2006 5:59PM

Labman,
When you say that stamps rarely sell for above catalogue compared to coins(I assume you are talking about auctions) are you speaking of UNSLABBED UNGRADED coins? If so then the coin market must be an incredible investment opportunity! If you are comparing GRADED stamps to GRADED coins you're dead wrong. Here are some recent examples from the Stamp Market Quarterly:
Sc #749 G-100 Cat $4.25 realized $1,438
#470 XF-S 98 Cat $130.00 realized $8,337.50
#378 XF-S 98 Cat $67.50 realized $4312.50
#233 XF-S 98 sold for $4,025
#323 XF-S 98 sold for $3,220
The list goes on and on, sure these are high grades but just about anything from the 30's and before in the grade of 90 or higher sells for more than the Scott catalog. Scott values are so irrelevant that I haven't even bought a new catalog for 3 years! It is still the best for information purposes though. Even the SMQ prices are conservative. The investment potential for stamps right now is phenomenal. People are buying stamps at over catalogue at auction and then selling to another guy for a huge profit! I have submitted over 200 stamps for grading and let me tell you it's not easy to get a high grade The market isn't going to collapse all of the sudden like the early 80's as some have started to say already. The reason being the same that coins are still a viable market,3rd party grading. A zeppelin set is not rare(but went really high in the 80's stamp boom) but a highly graded set is rare. There aren't 20,000 sets with all stamps grading 98 or higher and never will be. There isn't a magic machine somewhere churning out high grade stamps, there are machines churning out proof coin sets and a myriad other "collector" market sets. Coins do have precious metals but $3.00 worth of silver will never be worth the $100.00 paid(except that it's in the shape of a specific coin and year etc.) just the same as a stamp is a piece of paper(worthless except for mailing a letter) I collect coins myself but every time I hear the "stamps aren't really worth anything" line it makes me laugh because that isn't really true in the past 2-3 years.

coinpictures · May 15, 2006 10:46AM

Those examples are by FAR the exception rather than the rule. Who knows how many stamps you would have to submit until you got a 98+.

As far as common "postage", which the OP is referring to, most dealers will buy those at 80-85% of face and sell at 90-95%.

edueku · May 19, 2006 1:17AM

First of all, how many "common" stamps do you see at auction that are not graded/slabbed/encapsulated. OK, how many UNgraded common coins that I pull out of my pocket change do you see selling at auction? NONE! For instance would an auction house sell a 1978 Lincoln cent in the grade of "Fine"? NO!If I pull a common 1930's stamp out of an album with average centering will an auction house want to sell it as a single item for $2.00? NO! So what is your point? The stamps I quoted are high realizations but they are NOT the exception.Take a look at Steve Crippes website gradedstamps.com.Look at all of the "SOLD" icons, and he sells for ABOVE the SMQ values (Stamp Market Quarterly) All of them are not 98's and it is a net price list not an auction. This is not the only valuable grade. Do you only collect MS-70 coins? Is this the only grade that has any value? NO! Stamps from the 19th and early 20th century as well as certain poorly produced/centered issues are hard to find in a 90 or above. Quality comparisons aren't quite the same for stamps either, most coins had a decent amount of quality control whereas it was acceptable on many stamp issues to be merely usable with little real quality control. For example can you name a MODERN coin issue that nearly every other coin is off-center? No? Me neither. I guess part of what needs to be determined is what are we are refering to when we say common? Common QUALITY, common in QUANTITY, or both?
A common coin OR stamp in a low grade/condition is really not worth much more than it's intended original purpose,i.e. mailing a letter or purchasing an item or maybe a SMALL premium to a collector as a spacefiller(cull?).
A top quality coin OR stamp will usually always sell for more than the face value whether it is common or not(with 3rd party grading).
So saying something like," most stamps aren't worth much, but most coins sell better and for more..." really depends on what you're talking about.
By the way getting a 98 is not the same as playing the lottery or rolling dice. You need to have knowledge and experience to know what stamps to submit. Would you submit a coin with a large scratch across the face and expect an MS grade? Probably not. Now one might submit a faulity coin or stamp if it were a rare issue as it would probably hold some value.
By the way I own 16 95J's, 25 98's, 4 98J's and 3 100's, all of which I submitted myself. I find that the 95J's are harder to come by and IMO more visually stunning than most 98's. Hey lets keep this thread going I want to hear more of other peoples opinions.

UncleWiggly · May 27, 2006 11:21PM

Sorry ad4400. There's a good chance who answers this thread now will be putting there two cents in on one of the off shoot topics instead of answering you. And, it's about damn time!! Seriously, it's nice to see some bouncing of ideas around. Like edueka said, hope we can keep it going.

What the heck is the Stamp Market? Every single stamp ever printed in the entire world? Why not. They're all cataloged and have a value assigned. Doesn't make any sense? OK. Every single stamp issued just for the U.S? They're all listed and a value assigned too. But that still just doesn't quite make sense.

I have the same problem as a lot of people when I hear stamp, coin or currency market. I keep trying to make a comparison to a stock market. But that just flat out doesn't work. You can take just the rare stuff and make some comparisons to the stock market. But after that it gets kind of blurry. So, is just whatever is currently selling the market? That's obviously part of it. But I don't like that concept at all. Some of the issues and series that seem to be selling and moving up in value the past 6 to 12 months, some I believe already mentioned in this thread, weren't selling either up or down in some cases 4 or 5 years ago. It's like everybody fell asleep for awhile. I still considered them part of the stamp market. Around the same time, booklets, and in particular Love stamp booklets were selling. I don't know why, but I've never considered them part of the stamp market. Fad Stamp Market?

I have to assume the dealer knew what he was talking about because there are some pbs from the years you listed that do catalog in the $50-$60 range. You're asking 2 great questions here if you mean to or not. Why isn't your stuff worth more? Becasue there's tons of it. Will your stuff go up in value? No, because there's tons of it. I guess there's 3 questions here. Is your stuff part of the stamp market? Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say no. I'm saying that without being able to come up with some sort of idea what the market is. Maybe the stamp market is made up of the stamps that break out of the pack. That makes more since than anything. Up they go. Down they go.

On the other hand as philactica is saying, don't throw in the towel on what you have yet. People do buy stuff like you have. It's easy to lump all your stuff into the "non" stamp market. A foreign dealer just might take all you pbs or something. I hope we can get a list from you. There's a couple things in your stuff I might want.

I hope we can break some of this down into bite sized chunks for all of us.

Jerry

edueku · June 7, 2006 5:49AM

Yes keep it going KEEP IT GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ad4400 · June 7, 2006 11:12PM

Wow, I thought my post was dead in the water. Thanks for the insights. As an active coin collector I can certainly appreciate the idea that common items (stamps or coins) in common grades (or unslabbed) are difficult to sell. I'm not sure if my great Aunt took pleasure from collecting sheets and plate blocks, or whether they were misguided investments, aka "modern crap" over on the coin boards.

I work down the street from the DC covention center so I wandered over to the stamp show last week. I talked to a couple of folks about selling. Some said 'no interest at all' based on how I described it. On the other hand I left my card and almost immediately got a call back from what I deemed an overzealous buyer. The trip did motivate me to inventory what I had.

The best I've come across is a complete set of mint sheets and almost complete set of plate blocks of the 1940 Great American series (including the 10 cent Alexander Bell), which appears to fetch a pretty peeny retail. Last night I went through a folder of sheets from the 1961 - 1963 period and for kicks went to a retailers when site where I saw they retailed the Red Cross Commemorative Sheet at $16. If this retailer buys at face or less and sells for $16, that represents a pretty nice markup, yes?

In any event, for those who expressed an interest in the inventory, you can PM me and I'll let you know what I find as my project concludes. I'm glad to have been able to generate some conversation and will undoutably be posting other solicitations for advice as I go through my collection.

dougwtx · June 7, 2006 11:37PM

Before selling to a dealer, I would try to sell a few on eBay to see what you can get. You can also post on the Stamp BST board here for free. Since you have sheets, some stamps singlely are not worth much, but as a plate block, the price takes a jump. An example is J88. Of course, that also means you have to find buyers/collectors of plate blocks.

If you are a coin collector, and you know of a stamp and coin store, you also may be able to do a trade.

As in coins, you just need to find the right buyer, which is sometimes difficult to do or takes time. Many collectors consider "modern crap" as worthless, but then you find dealers selling modern PR70/MS70 stuff for good money; so there is a market. Same with stamps; many consider most post-1930 stamps as close to worthless, but with the stamp grading catching one, certain ones are selling for quite a bit. Take a look at SMQ or Scott Value Supplement and you can see the price variances between grades.

Are any of the sheets a White Plains sheet, Sc# 630?

quarterlvr · June 9, 2006 12:18AM

Labman, I know what you mean. I at 43 am about the youngest member of my local stamp club. Most of the folks are retirees, we have maybe one woman that's a little younger than me. Another club I used to belong to in NE had a guy who always brought his daughter to meetings, she was maybe 11 or 12. Can't say anything about coin clubs, don't know of one here in town and I can't afford to drive 40 miles to find one in Colorado Springs. Although it does seem from watching the coin boards that there are more younger people interested lately. Maybe that 's from the state quarter program that more people are collecting now? I think stamps are still alive and well, just not as popular with the younger folks as coins are right now. I watch the activity on Ebay alot and can't believe the feeding frenzy over some of the coins that are out there... Stamps are a little better but there are some lots that I just back away from because I refuse to get caught up in a bidding war and pay too much. Just my 2 cents.....

edueku · June 9, 2006 4:06AM

If you don't want to get caught up in a bidding war then use a sniper program/site. I use EZsniper and have probably saved myself 100's of dollars on fighting one other person for a stamp I want. It's easy to do and cheap.

edueku · June 15, 2006 2:40AM

Keep it going>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

philactica · June 15, 2006 4:45PM

<< In conjunction with my 'another inheritence' post, I recently asked a local coin/stamp dealer or two if they would be interested in either trading for coins or buying the plate block or mint sheets from 1930s-1960s. The answer was a resounding no. >>

Hi ad4400. The beauty lies in the beholder - The beauty is that you have bothered with your inheritence to make something out of it. Many lesser mortals would throw up the hands and give it away to the first $100 offer !
As you can see you have already a few interested in your material on this thread. Your efforts will be rewarded !

Maybe I should start my own grading business, certifying my material !?

Erich

Smittys · June 16, 2006 12:28AM

Using the BST here is your best bet. No Fees, Great people.
And you can set the price or take offers.

ad4400 · June 16, 2006 1:02AM

Thanks. Is there any central place that gives you a road map to using the BTS. For example how to set terms of the sale and such.

edueku · June 29, 2006 9:03AM

Has anybody noticed how cheap you can get 95J for in "Buy it now" on ebay. There are some good deals to be had. It's funny that nobody has been smart enough to notice in the population report that for about every 10 "98's" of a given issue there only 2 or 3 95J's. Hmmm... What is more scarce? For example take a look at the pop rep for the Wash. Bicent. ,look the jumbo's campsred to the regular grades! My set is the second highest in the registry but my 95J's are much more scarce than the 98's in the other sets! Has anybody else noticed some 95J's to be much more striking than some of the 98's thay have seen?

can it be sold - What makes up the stampe market?

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