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I Send eBay Information About Removing the Fake 1895 Dollar & They Remove One of My Listings! Di
poorguy
Posts: 4,317 ✭
This is a very sad day indeed. No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
Everybody remembers this thread about the fake 1895 dollar on eBay Fake 1895 Dollar Thread
Link to coin on eBay Fake 1895 dollar on eBay
It appears that eBay decided not to take any action against the seller of the 1895 dollar but then to focus their efforts on the person who was trying to get that auction pulled "ME"
Yes, eBay thought that my listing of the 1874 50c was in violation of not one but five eBay listing rules. All of the reasons below with the exception of the very last one, and that one is to protect us from those out there just looking for a way to take advantage of mistakes. This very minor violation should have merely been worthy of a warning instead of pulling the listing.
eBay decided to take action against a seller trying to keep the eBay marketplace clean and legitimate instead of the obvious scam artists that are clogging the eBay selling community.
Here is my eMail to eBay:
I bend over backwards to try and make sure that eBay is a safe place to trade by reporting fraudulent and counterfeit items and you guys go and CANCEL ONE OF MY LISTINGS for some lame grey area reasons? Even BEFORE you guys cancel the counterfeit dollar listing? I can't put into words how upset I am at this.
This is absolutely the reason most respectable coin dealers won't TOUCH eBay. You guys attack the legitimate sellers and let the idiots and scam artists off! The reasons for removing this listing are undoubtably absurd.
Listing: 8415610101 - 1874 50c NGC PF65CAM Liberty Seated Half Dollar -Arrows
The listing on our website: 1874 50c NGC PF65Cameo Liberty Seated Half Dollar 'Arrows'
These are the reasons my listing was pulled:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
The use of www.anacondararecoins.com in your item description is in violation of our "Links" policy. In accordance with this policy, sellers are allowed:
That isn't even a LINK - it is in one of my images at the bottom and has always been there for over a year! It isn't a link. It doesn't break any rule.
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
As outlined on our "Links" policy, you are allowed:
One link to your email address <http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-links-email.html> that opens an email client for potential buyers to ask questions about the item in that listing
You have numerous clickable email addresses throughout your auction templates
That is absolutely Ludicrous.
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
1874 50C Arrows PR65 Cameo PCGS PR65 November 6, 2004 $11,500.00
Link directs people to http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=358&Lot_No=7461&src=pr, which is an eBay type of auction site
The page it links to is a REFERENCE SECTION OF HERITAGE'S ARCHIVES! YOU CANNOT BUY A THING FROM THAT LINK!
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
Wanted
If you have premium quality PCGS coins, NGC coins, CGA or CGC currency for sale, please email me. I am an especially strong buyer for gorgeously toned coins minted before 1936, MS68 and PR68 coins minted before 1936, Cameo coins (Cameo, Ultra Cameo and DCAM coins) minted before 1915, high quality, problem free and eye-appealing early type coins minted before 1836 and certified high grade US Large Size currency in Gem and higher grades
Consignments
I would be glad to liquidate your collection so long as it is valued at or over $500. I charge 15 of the sale price which covers my time, listing expenses, and expertise. I guarantee that the items will be accurately described, imaged and sold for a fair market value.
**Any verbiage or text that appears to solicit a sale off eBay, where an off site transaction could take place is not allowed in our sellers listing description. Sellers descriptions need to directly relate to what that specific item is that they are selling, not business promotions, or advertising items that you are interested in purchasing**
There is nothing in that message that solicits a sale off of eBay. WE DO CONSIGNMENTS. HOW ELSE DO SELLERS GET THEIR MATERIAL THAN TO ADVERTISE THAT THEY BUY AS WELL AS SELL!!!!!
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
About Our eBay listings and Return Policy
In the event that an error has occurred in the listing price of an item, we reserve the right to sell the item at the correct price and the buyer has the option of paying that price or backing out of the sell.
Seller's terms contradictory to the eBay User Agreement or that inadvertently violate eBay Listing Policies are not permitted.
The eBay User Agreement states, "While using the site, you will not: fail to deliver items purchased from you, unless the buyer fails to meet the posted terms, or you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity"
This statement is the only thing I could find that was plausible and was worthy of attention. It should have been brought to my attention and I could have changed it easily without having to REMOVE my listing. It is basically there to prevent an item that was priced at the wrong amount from being sold for a loss and to protect us from lowlifes that enjoy taking advantage of others mistakes. It has also been there for over a year and hasn't been cause for concern.
Everybody remembers this thread about the fake 1895 dollar on eBay Fake 1895 Dollar Thread
Link to coin on eBay Fake 1895 dollar on eBay
It appears that eBay decided not to take any action against the seller of the 1895 dollar but then to focus their efforts on the person who was trying to get that auction pulled "ME"
Yes, eBay thought that my listing of the 1874 50c was in violation of not one but five eBay listing rules. All of the reasons below with the exception of the very last one, and that one is to protect us from those out there just looking for a way to take advantage of mistakes. This very minor violation should have merely been worthy of a warning instead of pulling the listing.
eBay decided to take action against a seller trying to keep the eBay marketplace clean and legitimate instead of the obvious scam artists that are clogging the eBay selling community.
Here is my eMail to eBay:
I bend over backwards to try and make sure that eBay is a safe place to trade by reporting fraudulent and counterfeit items and you guys go and CANCEL ONE OF MY LISTINGS for some lame grey area reasons? Even BEFORE you guys cancel the counterfeit dollar listing? I can't put into words how upset I am at this.
This is absolutely the reason most respectable coin dealers won't TOUCH eBay. You guys attack the legitimate sellers and let the idiots and scam artists off! The reasons for removing this listing are undoubtably absurd.
Listing: 8415610101 - 1874 50c NGC PF65CAM Liberty Seated Half Dollar -Arrows
The listing on our website: 1874 50c NGC PF65Cameo Liberty Seated Half Dollar 'Arrows'
These are the reasons my listing was pulled:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
The use of www.anacondararecoins.com in your item description is in violation of our "Links" policy. In accordance with this policy, sellers are allowed:
That isn't even a LINK - it is in one of my images at the bottom and has always been there for over a year! It isn't a link. It doesn't break any rule.
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
As outlined on our "Links" policy, you are allowed:
One link to your email address <http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-links-email.html> that opens an email client for potential buyers to ask questions about the item in that listing
You have numerous clickable email addresses throughout your auction templates
That is absolutely Ludicrous.
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contained the following information:
1874 50C Arrows PR65 Cameo PCGS PR65 November 6, 2004 $11,500.00
Link directs people to http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=358&Lot_No=7461&src=pr, which is an eBay type of auction site
The page it links to is a REFERENCE SECTION OF HERITAGE'S ARCHIVES! YOU CANNOT BUY A THING FROM THAT LINK!
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
Wanted
If you have premium quality PCGS coins, NGC coins, CGA or CGC currency for sale, please email me. I am an especially strong buyer for gorgeously toned coins minted before 1936, MS68 and PR68 coins minted before 1936, Cameo coins (Cameo, Ultra Cameo and DCAM coins) minted before 1915, high quality, problem free and eye-appealing early type coins minted before 1836 and certified high grade US Large Size currency in Gem and higher grades
Consignments
I would be glad to liquidate your collection so long as it is valued at or over $500. I charge 15 of the sale price which covers my time, listing expenses, and expertise. I guarantee that the items will be accurately described, imaged and sold for a fair market value.
**Any verbiage or text that appears to solicit a sale off eBay, where an off site transaction could take place is not allowed in our sellers listing description. Sellers descriptions need to directly relate to what that specific item is that they are selling, not business promotions, or advertising items that you are interested in purchasing**
There is nothing in that message that solicits a sale off of eBay. WE DO CONSIGNMENTS. HOW ELSE DO SELLERS GET THEIR MATERIAL THAN TO ADVERTISE THAT THEY BUY AS WELL AS SELL!!!!!
Here is another:
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
About Our eBay listings and Return Policy
In the event that an error has occurred in the listing price of an item, we reserve the right to sell the item at the correct price and the buyer has the option of paying that price or backing out of the sell.
Seller's terms contradictory to the eBay User Agreement or that inadvertently violate eBay Listing Policies are not permitted.
The eBay User Agreement states, "While using the site, you will not: fail to deliver items purchased from you, unless the buyer fails to meet the posted terms, or you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity"
This statement is the only thing I could find that was plausible and was worthy of attention. It should have been brought to my attention and I could have changed it easily without having to REMOVE my listing. It is basically there to prevent an item that was priced at the wrong amount from being sold for a loss and to protect us from lowlifes that enjoy taking advantage of others mistakes. It has also been there for over a year and hasn't been cause for concern.
Brandon Kelley - ANA - 972.746.9193 - http://www.bestofyesterdaycollectibles.com
0
Comments
John C (an eBay direct shareholder also)
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>There is nothing in that message that solicits a sale off of eBay. WE DO CONSIGNMENTS. HOW ELSE DO SELLERS GET THEIR MATERIAL THAN TO ADVERTISE THAT THEY BUY AS WELL AS SELL!!!!! >>
eBay once nuked one of my auctions for the same reason. Signing up for the trading assistant program solves that particular problem.
I love your eMail to them. I would have had a hard time avoiding the use of four letter words, though.
Russ, NCNE
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I'm right now in the middle of fixing my Paypal account (yes, one of those phishing auctions- the kind that you have to open up and log back on to read...was clicked and logged into by me before I knew any better...) and thought my ordeal was miserable!
All of this makes me wonder where eBay will be- in regards to coins, in the next five years?
Don't know how to do the link - can anyone help?
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
It seems to me that you violated their stated policy in several places, including soliciting business in your listing and linking other e-commerce sites (Heritage) as well as the return policy statement.
While I can understand your frustration with e-bay seemingly giving carte-blanche to scammers and rip-off artists, I do not understand how their enforcing the rules on you by cancelling one listing is punishment for your good deeds.
Take care...Mike
So what you're saying is that your attempt to eliminate some competition backfired?
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>Brandon, In my opinion, you are in the wrong on several of the issues...
It seems to me that you violated their stated policy in several places, including soliciting business in your listing and linking other e-commerce sites (Heritage) as well as the return policy statement.
While I can understand your frustration with e-bay seemingly giving carte-blanche to scammers and rip-off artists, I do not understand how their enforcing the rules on you by cancelling one listing is punishment for your good deeds.
Take care...Mike >>
Mike, I appreciate your comments, however:
Linking to other commerce sites is acceptable if the link does not bring the user to a page that they can purchase from (look at the heritage and superior listings currently on eBay. They link back to their website with information. I explicitly asked about being able to put this in my auction and they told me that if the page that is linked to will allow someone to purchase from that website, then it is in violation. If it is simply linked to a page that has supporting information then it is not in violation. You cannot buy a coin out of the Heritage Archives.
There is nothing wrong with my "return policy" statement. IMHO. The statement that they have problems with is about someone clicking buy it now on a listing that is accidentally missing a '0' in the price or some other pricing error. Like I said earlier, if eBay didn't have all the lowlifes on there now looking for ways to take advantage of others mistakes, I wouldn't have put that line in there.
Don't know how to do the link - can anyone help?>>
The 1856 $1 is a fake too. link
Sorry to hear of the problem with Ebay, Brandon. While it is apparent that you were in technical violation of some of their policies, it was unintentional, and far less serious than other matters they so often ignore.
I truly hope that innovation in the marketplace eventually causes those arrogant bastidges to crash and burn. That being said, no doubt any replacement that comes along will eventually become as arrogant.
I will assiduously play by their rules so long as I must play in their sandbox, but I will take every opportunity to minimize their profits from me. I only rarely buy off of Ebay, and I will not upgrade my auctions one iota more than I must in order to maximize MY profits.
I will actively support any competing service that can give me as much bang for the buck, or even close to it. So far, that alternative does not exist.
No doubt you can tell that they have won no friendship or loyalty here.
Keith
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i><<Same seller also one other coin - a seated dollar - is that POS real?
Don't know how to do the link - can anyone help?>>
The 1856 $1 is a fake too. link
Sorry to hear of the problem with Ebay, Brandon. While it is apparent that you were in technical violation of some of their policies, it was unintentional, and far less serious than other matters they so often ignore.
I didn't disagree with the fact that I was "technically" in violation of one policy (which should have warranted a friendly email about changing it, not removing the listing) and the other about the email addresses is absurd.
More information please. What was your original e-mail to e-bay?
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>Brandon,
More information please. What was your original e-mail to e-bay?
Have a Great Day!
Louis >>
Actually, I called eBay and spoke to an account manager who told me to send the information and she would promptly forward it to the Trust and Safety Team.
I'll gladly post it.
The 1895 Morgan in the auction is definitely a counterfeit. Since only 880 of these were produced (as proofs), very few dies were paired to fill this mintage and they should all have very close details to one another.
Also, the seller has listed an 1865 Seated Dollar that appears to have been made using the same rudimentary techniques as the 1895 morgan dollar. It is also a fake and should be removed as well. Item number 8413068255.
About the fake:
1. The date is clearly wrong. The 5 is most notable.
2. The central details are NOT what you should find on a Proof morgan. Proof morgans will have intricately struck detail, especially near the edges and higher central points. Since all 1895 Morgans ARE proofs, this point is very important.
3. The denticles going all the way around the coin are not fully struck. Again, Proof coins ALL should have crisp full edge details. You can plainly see on this fake how it nearly blends into the fields which is not characteristic of a Proof and therefore, since all known 1895 Morgans are proof, this one is a counterfeit.
4. The lettering E PLURIBUS UNUM is WAAY too thin. Compare with the image of the 1895 Proof Morgan on coinfacts.com (link provided below)
This coin is clearly a counterfeit and the seller was contacted about it and seemed to shrug it off and gave a runaround excuse that it is currently being graded. If that is so, then why on earth would it be in an auction? Blatant lie by the seller in an attempt to mislead and defraud the public.
Here is the thread on the PCGS forums about the 1895 morgan on eBay:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=499746&STARTPAGE=1
Here is the item number in question: 8413065183
Here is information about the 1895 Morgan Dollar with images (www.coinfacts.com):
http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/morgan_dollars/1895_morgan_dollars/1895_morgan_silver_dollar.htm
Let me know if I can be of anymore assistance in this matter. I consider the selling of counterfeits, especially at this price level to be a serious offense.
-Thanks,
-Brandon Kelley
-1-800-440-8334
<< <i>If it helps, the seller of the fake 1895 dollar also has a link to her web site listed in the details toward the end of her auction page (using ebay's idiotic definition of link). Check for smelliebears.com or something like that, it's in there! >>
Good Point.
In the seller's payment instructions:
Thanks so much for shopping!!! And check out my other site! Smelliebearsandmore.com I appreciate the business and hope you will purchase from me again!!!! If buying more than one item...I do combine shipping. The more you buy the cheaper the shipping.....I want you to come back ...so I try to keep it reasonable. Thanks so much!!!!!!!! Melonie
She is actually asking for people to go to the website! Mine was simply an image that wasn't even clickable. You couldn't even copy and paste it into a URL bar.
<< <i>Anyone notice that the current high bidder on both of these coins is the same person - nothiscoin. Interesting!! >>
I have a hunch that's a a protector.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Anyone notice that the current high bidder on both of these coins is the same person - nothiscoin. Interesting!! >>
It seems that is the only way to stop crap like this from happening. Look at what happened when I tried to stop it going through the so-called "proper channels". Very Very Sad.
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone notice that the current high bidder on both of these coins is the same person - nothiscoin. Interesting!! >>
I have a hunch that's a a protector.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, be careful. Someone from eBay might be reading this thread and they will NRU the high bidder so that the coin will sell to the underbidders they were protecting from this BS.
Thank you for posting your original e-mail. It is very professional and accurate. In your original post, the first e-mail that you made reference to was a little stong-handed to be a first contact. My thoughts now are that E-bay dropped the ball. You should have been politely warned and the scammer should have been banned.
Again, thanks for the clarification.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>Your listing(s) contained the following information:
As outlined on our "Links" policy, you are allowed:
One link to your email address <http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-links-email.html> that opens an email client for potential buyers to ask questions about the item in that listing
You have numerous clickable email addresses throughout your auction templates
That is absolutely Ludicrous. >>
Ludicrous, yes. In violation, yes. Does it make sense? No.
<< <i>Your listing(s) contains the following information:
Wanted
If you have premium quality PCGS coins, NGC coins, CGA or CGC currency for sale, please email me. I am an especially strong buyer for gorgeously toned coins minted before 1936, MS68 and PR68 coins minted before 1936, Cameo coins (Cameo, Ultra Cameo and DCAM coins) minted before 1915, high quality, problem free and eye-appealing early type coins minted before 1836 and certified high grade US Large Size currency in Gem and higher grades
Consignments
I would be glad to liquidate your collection so long as it is valued at or over $500. I charge 15 of the sale price which covers my time, listing expenses, and expertise. I guarantee that the items will be accurately described, imaged and sold for a fair market value.
**Any verbiage or text that appears to solicit a sale off eBay, where an off site transaction could take place is not allowed in our sellers listing description. Sellers descriptions need to directly relate to what that specific item is that they are selling, not business promotions, or advertising items that you are interested in purchasing**
There is nothing in that message that solicits a sale off of eBay. WE DO CONSIGNMENTS. HOW ELSE DO SELLERS GET THEIR MATERIAL THAN TO ADVERTISE THAT THEY BUY AS WELL AS SELL!!!!! >>
You are asking for people to contact you directly because you are a strong buyer. This highly suggests doing this outside of ebay. I do think that this policy is kind of a waste though. Once you have made contact with someone through ebay, other items generally get sold outside of ebay. I have met a lot of exonumia dealers through ebay but have not bought another thing from them through ebay.
not small violations... but then some people use ebay
as an advertising thingy. anaconda always fell under that
to me, due to their high prices for stuff that never sells.
just relisted endlessly with ANACONDA showing you the
way to their website.
to run auctions on obvious fakes. eBay will destroy themselves if they keep this up.
<< <i>Anyone notice that the current high bidder on both of these coins is the same person - nothiscoin. Interesting!! >>
Yup, hopefully our old friend scamnuker has returned.
Free Trial
maybe time to stop listing with them
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
When you go to a coin show and you see a fake coin at a dealer's table, do you whine to the show promoters about it, or do you just walk on by?
It's a free country. Oh wait. It's not.
<< <i>I don't understand all this anti-eBay sentiment.
It's a flea market, for petesake. Why should you care whether they care if an item is overgraded, mis-described, or an outright fake? If you don't trust the seller, don't bid on it. eBay can't be everybody's nanny.
When you go to a coin show and you see a fake coin at a dealer's table, do you whine to the show promoters about it, or do you just walk on by? >>
A number of us are anti-fraud, whether it occurs on Ebay, at a coin show or elsewhere.
<< <i>I don't understand all this anti-eBay sentiment. It's a flea market, for petesake. Why should you care whether they care if an item is overgraded, mis-described, or an outright fake? If you don't trust the seller, don't bid on it. eBay can't be everybody's nanny.
When you go to a coin show and you see a fake coin at a dealer's table, do you whine to the show promoters about it, or do you just walk on by?
It's a free country. Oh wait. It's not. >>
Why? Well, not only is it just plain wrong and unethical, it hurts the hobby overall. Let's say someone buys that fake. They pay well into five figures for it and think they are happy. Then, three years later Joe Buyer walks into a coin shop to see how much his treasure has appreciated and the dealer says the coin is a fake and is worth zippo. He either thinks this dealer is a scam artist or indeed believes he did get ripped off. Either way he is completely burned and most likely will not participate in our hobby ever again.
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>im tired of ebay leaving the scams and fakes and bugging the legit sellers.
maybe time to stop listing with them
All we need is someone with a viable business model for an alternative with sellers and listings and diligently policed by qualified people. A company like Heritage could start a "just a venue" division that took fees on a similar schedule as eBay does, but screened potential sellers and lot listings. They could become a one-stop shop for coins of all values.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>All we need is someone with a viable business model for an alternative with sellers and listings and diligently policed by qualified people. A company like Heritage could start a "just a venue" division that took fees on a similar schedule as eBay does, but screened potential sellers and lot listings. They could become a one-stop shop for coins of all values. >>
Yeah. The problem is that eBay's model essentially creates a natural monopoly. Big-time dealers can run their own auctions, but for individuals wanting to sell stuff to other individuals, buyers want to go where all the sellers are, and sellers want to go where all the buyers are. That is a prohibitive barrier for another strong entrant in this space.
<< <i>Yeah. The problem is that eBay's model essentially creates a natural monopoly. Big-time dealers can run their own auctions, but for individuals wanting to sell stuff to other individuals, buyers want to go where all the sellers are, and sellers want to go where all the buyers are. That is a prohibitive barrier for another strong entrant in this space. >>
There would be growing pains, which is why a new entrant would have to be well heeled. Buyers would have to want to go somewhere else, and the absence of scam artists and standards to which sellers and listings are held are rather compelling reasons that would have to be publicized feverishly. A lot of individual sellers have established contact lists of regular buyers, so "word-of-mouth" would help as well. Gresham's Law would then start taking it's toll on eBay.
Impossible, no. Difficult, yes.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
She is actually asking for people to go to the website! Mine was simply an image that wasn't even clickable. You couldn't even copy and paste it into a URL bar.
Register anacondararecoins.com as a company NAME and tell them it is your company NAME... lol... cm
I bet it still doesn't get removed. Likely they'll just send her a friendly email telling why the listing is in violation and jack squat will be done about it. eBay simply removes the listings from legitimage sellers.
"...Bottom line is that eBay, like any company its size, has enough incompetent people working there to screw up people's auctions for the wrong reason all the time. They are also infallible, just ask them."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution