Proposed Obverses for new Presidential Dollars

KoinDawg · April 18, 2006 1:27PM

CoinWorld's ANA Convention issue from Atlanta shows the proposed obverses for the first four new presidential dollars that will be minted beginning 2007. Will it be confusing to have two coins about the same size with George Washington on them (the quarter and new dollar)?

flaminio · April 18, 2006 2:29PM

<< Will it be confusing to have two coins about the same size >>

OK, stop right there. Stop this myth. Quarters and Dollars are *not* "about the same size", no more so than quarters and nickels, and much less so than dimes and pennies. Stop repeating the Big Lie.

That said, the obverses look OK, about as good as one can do with a bunch of ugly old white guys, I suppose. I'm more appalled about the reverses than the obverses. Well, the whole program appalls me, but that's for another day...

Baley · April 18, 2006 2:49PM

Actually, if the coins look like this, I think they'll be handsome and will collect them from circulation, as I do the state quarters.

I would not pay premiums for the proofs, though.. I only pay more than face value for coins older than me.

ER · April 18, 2006 4:17PM

<< 

<< Will it be confusing to have two coins about the same size >>

OK, stop right there. Stop this myth. Quarters and Dollars are *not* "about the same size", no more so than quarters and nickels, and much less so than dimes and pennies. Stop repeating the Big Lie.

That said, the obverses look OK, about as good as one can do with a bunch of ugly old white guys, I suppose. I'm more appalled about the reverses than the obverses. Well, the whole program appalls me, but that's for another day... >>

What "Big Lie"? "Myth"? It's a fact. "About the same size" is just that, about, not exactly the the same, but about. And it's a fact that many feel that they (the quarters and the SBA and Sac dollars) are about the same size. If you don't feel that way, fine, more power to you, but I don't see why it's a "Big Lie", or a "myth".

Facts:
SBA and Sac = 26.5 mm (diameter)
Quarter = .......24.3 mm
Dime = ............17.9 mm
Nickel = ...........21.2 mm
Lincoln = .........19.0 mm

Conder101 · April 18, 2006 11:01PM

<< Will it be confusing to have two coins about the same size with George Washington on them (the quarter and new dollar)? >>

The myth part is that it is confusing. The diameter difference between the quarter and dollar is abuout the same and the diameter difference between the nickel and quarter. But we don't hear a lot of complaints that people are getting confused and spending quarters as nickels. Which should actually be much more likely since the weight difference between those two is only .6 grams, a 12% difference. The weight difference between the quarter and dollar is 2.4 grams, a 43% difference. So we don't confuse two coins with a 12% difference, but we get confused by two coins with different colors and a 43% difference. Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

Gemineye · April 18, 2006 11:05PM

I believe it will be a.. great ..collectable..!!!!.......................................

Barndog · April 18, 2006 11:16PM

Myth or not, every so often I get a SBA or Sac in change...instead of the quarter I was due!

Whitby · April 18, 2006 11:39PM

Many many millions of years ago, I recall the term cartwheel describing a dollar. I hang my head in shame to see an actual discussion about a QUARTER being called a DOLLAR. GYents if your digits can distinguish 2 mm diff between a quarter and a dollar in your pocket while walking along then I will have to tip my hat to you and ask why you are all not surgeons.

Yes, I will go out on a limb and say that would be a whopper of an obfiscation if I have ever heard one.......

flaminio · April 19, 2006 2:07AM

<< What "Big Lie"? "Myth"? It's a fact. "About the same size" is just that, about, not exactly the the same, but about. And it's a fact that many feel that they (the quarters and the SBA and Sac dollars) are about the same size. If you don't feel that way, fine, more power to you, but I don't see why it's a "Big Lie", or a "myth". >>

Can you tell cents and dimes apart? Or does the fact that they are "about the same size" make them indistinguishable? If you have no problem distinguishing cents and dimes, then why praytell would you have a problem distinguishing quarters and Sackies/Prexybucks? That's the "Big Lie" I'm talking about, and what the OP alluded to.

Whitby · April 19, 2006 2:19AM

Cartwheel Cartwheel Cartwheel

ER · April 19, 2006 2:26AM

<< 

<< What "Big Lie"? "Myth"? It's a fact. "About the same size" is just that, about, not exactly the the same, but about. And it's a fact that many feel that they (the quarters and the SBA and Sac dollars) are about the same size. If you don't feel that way, fine, more power to you, but I don't see why it's a "Big Lie", or a "myth". >>

Can you tell cents and dimes apart? Or does the fact that they are "about the same size" make them indistinguishable? If you have no problem distinguishing cents and dimes, then why praytell would you have a problem distinguishing quarters and Sackies/Prexybucks? That's the "Big Lie" I'm talking about, and what the OP alluded to. >>

OK man, whatever.

Cladiator · April 19, 2006 2:26AM

The "drawings" look promising. The actual coins may very well not look near as good.

TheRaven · April 19, 2006 2:32AM

I don't see how you can confuse a quarter and a golden dollar coin.....

In my pocket can I tell the difference, yes, one has reeded edges and the other does not.....

I don't care for the obverse.....

I hate the reverse.....

I detest the entire program itself.....

INXS · April 19, 2006 2:50AM

<< Actually, if the coins look like this, I think they'll be handsome and will collect them from circulation, as I do the state quarters.

I would not pay premiums for the proofs, though.. I only pay more than face value for coins older than me. >>

I'll get a dansco and collect them out of circulation if they do indeed circulate.

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 2:51AM

I can see confusing an SBA with a quarter. To try and say that mistaking a quater for an SBA is like mistaking a dime for a cent is ignoring two very significant facts:

1) The dime has a reeded edge. The cent is smooth.
2) The dime and cent are different colors.

Meanwhile, the SBA and quarter are both the same color in hand, and both have reeded edges about the same size.

On the other hand, a Sac has the golden color and smoth edge, so mistaking that for a quarter would be much less forgivable.

As for the portraits: They all suck. Presidents have no business being on our coinage. That's a bad habit we successfully avoided for over a hundred years, until 1909. I think any presidential coinage should be one-year commemorative pieces, which means Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Jefferson are way past their retirement age.

KoinDawg · April 19, 2006 3:01AM

So you want the U.S. to be like the UK/Canada/ Australia and put a living monarch on the obverse like Queen Elizabeth II. Past centuries the tradition has always been to have the ruler of the government on the coinage. Old Roman coins have Ceaser. My coins from Denmark have Christian IX, etc. Saddam Hussein was on all Iraqi money. The US was one of the first nations to NOT put a real person on a coin until we put Lincoln on the cent. Now we have dead past heros on our coins and paper money which is like living in the past. But I sure don't want us to mint coins with the likeness of whomever is the current president of our great nation. I'd be happy to see us return to very artistic, beautiful likenesses of Ms. Liberty.

MFH · April 19, 2006 3:04AM

I like the designs well enough, but there is no consistancy in the legends on the obverse. I prefered the scroll under Madison's portrait. Washington's coin just has " 1st" to the right ... and it looks unfinished to me.

If they are going to have - another unwanted series of dollar coins - why can't the set have some uniformity ?

Its been said all to often, but it needs to be said again and again, if they want a smaller dollar coin to succeed the dollar bill must be eliminated. This will probably never happen as the Crane Lobby must be too influential.
The vending machine lobby as well has their own axe to grind ( as they have since vending machines were first introduced ) but if they retrofitted their machines to accept dollar bills, they should have also gone one step further and had the machines accept the new smaller dollar coins.

Lets see, the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin lasted "20" years but only four years in production. The Sacagawea has been in production since 2000 and they about to eliminate it as well. At least the Presidential series will be around for ten plus years - if they only issue four coins per year. I feel an emblematic portait of Miss Liberty would be better received. Again, no dollar coin will be accepted by the general public as long as the dollar bill continues to be produced.

flaminio · April 19, 2006 3:10AM

<< I can see confusing an SBA with a quarter. To try and say that mistaking a quater for an SBA is like mistaking a dime for a cent is ignoring two very significant facts: >>

Well, the significant fact that you're ignoring is that we're comparing Sackies and quarters, not SBAs. That was a different thread.

<< Lets see, the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin lasted "20" years but only four years in production. The Sacagawea has been in production since 2000 and they about to eliminate it as well. >>

The Prexybuck bill calls for the Sackies to remain in production. So, starting in 2007 there will be five different dollar coins: four Prexies, and a Sackie.

While people are quick to call the Sacagawea dollar a failure, the fact remains that in terms of actual circulation, it is probably the most successful dollar coin the United States has ever produced. The ubiquitous Morgan dollar, for all its fame, rarely circulated, and was little more than a bullion coin in its day.

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 4:48AM

<< So you want the U.S. to be like the UK/Canada/ Australia and put a living monarch on the obverse like Queen Elizabeth II. Past centuries the tradition has always been to have the ruler of the government on the coinage. Old Roman coins have Ceaser. My coins from Denmark have Christian IX, etc. Saddam Hussein was on all Iraqi money. The US was one of the first nations to NOT put a real person on a coin until we put Lincoln on the cent. Now we have dead past heros on our coins and paper money which is like living in the past. But I sure don't want us to mint coins with the likeness of whomever is the current president of our great nation. I'd be happy to see us return to very artistic, beautiful likenesses of Ms. Liberty. >>

My point wasn't that we should have current presidents on the coins. My point was that we should only honor presidents in one-year commemoratives (e.g., Lincoln only in 1909, Kennedy only in 1964, etc).

I agree with your point about Ms. Liberty. Long May Ms. Liberty Live!!

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 4:55AM

<< Its been said all to often, but it needs to be said again and again, if they want a smaller dollar coin to succeed the dollar bill must be eliminated. This will probably never happen as the Crane Lobby must be too influential.
The vending machine lobby as well has their own axe to grind ( as they have since vending machines were first introduced ) but if they retrofitted their machines to accept dollar bills, they should have also gone one step further and had the machines accept the new smaller dollar coins. . >>

What do cranes have to do with dollar bills?

FWIW, vending machines can accept Sacs. I've spent a few in the vending machine down the hall.

TheRaven · April 19, 2006 5:15AM

I don't understand why the dollar bill is still in existance.....

Everybody knows eliminating it and the dollar coins will circulate and save lots of money, simple or you would think.....

People likely would cry and moan at first but they would get over it really quick like they do everything.....

For every 2 Presidental dollars they make they have to make 1 Sac dollar I believe.....

So those will be in the vaults for decades probably.....

KoinDawg · April 19, 2006 5:20AM

Besides, most people use plastic (debit or credit card) for most purchases over $10. Now McD's, Wendy's and Sonics take 'em. The only people that will be hauling around loads of dollar coins will those that have no credit.

Hey, just had a thought. If all paper was eliminated, it would make drug dealers pretty miserable. Can't drag several thousand dollars in coins in your pocket. I read yesterday in CoinWorld that Ben Franklin was the one that convinced the U.S. that they needed currency (paper money). So now we celebrate him with a commemorative coin.

MFH · April 19, 2006 6:00AM

<< 

<< Its been said all to often, but it needs to be said again and again, if they want a smaller dollar coin to succeed the dollar bill must be eliminated. This will probably never happen as the Crane Lobby must be too influential.
The vending machine lobby as well has their own axe to grind ( as they have since vending machines were first introduced ) but if they retrofitted their machines to accept dollar bills, they should have also gone one step further and had the machines accept the new smaller dollar coins. . >>

What do cranes have to do with dollar bills?

The Crane Mills in Massachusetts produce all the paper we use in our currency and if the dollar bill were removed then 95% of their production would be deleted.

FWIW, vending machines can accept Sacs. I've spent a few in the vending machine down the hall. >>

I wish all vending machines took the dollar coin !!

Conder101 · April 19, 2006 6:47AM

<< What do cranes have to do with dollar bills? The Crane Mills in Massachusetts produce all the paper we use in our currency and if the dollar bill were removed then 95% of their production would be deleted. >>

I believe the paper for the $1 note only accounts for about 75% of their production, but with the increase in demand that would occur for $2 notes they would probably retain 80% of that amount so their actual reduction in paper orders would only be about 15% of their current production. But they cry and scream to their Senator, Teddy Kennedy, and he uses his considerable influence to prevent the elimination of the dollar note.

<< FWIW, vending machines can accept Sacs. I've spent a few in the vending machine down the hall. >>

I wish all vending machines took the dollar coin !! >>

All vending machines made since the early 1980's CAN accept the dollar coin. IF the width adjustment of the coin slot is moved to the wider setting, and the toggle switch on the mechanism is flipped from the "Reject dollar coins" to the "Accept dollar coins" position. That's all it takes. Loosen a screw, slide the adjuster over, tighten the screw, flip the switch. You're good to go.

flaminio · April 19, 2006 7:39AM

<< All vending machines made since the early 1980's CAN accept the dollar coin. >>

It should also be pointed out that most vending machines with bill changers can also accept two dollar bills. So, if rag-bucks were discontinued and Sackies and Twos entered large scale production, the vending industry is ready.

OKbustchaser · April 19, 2006 8:04AM

The bottom line, though, is that the general public (ie VOTERS) does not now, nor has it ever, wanted a dollar coin. Period. That is why they have NEVER circulated properly...not because of paper currency, but because no one wants one--other than coin collectors.

Conder101 · April 19, 2006 9:40AM

<< The bottom line, though, is that the general public (ie VOTERS) does not now, nor has it ever, wanted a dollar coin. Period. >>

And in the mid to late sixties (and to some extent stil today) they wanted the coins to still be made of silver. They want to keep the cent and keep it made of copper. They want gasoline to be sold for less than a dollar, while they drive a big car at 70+ miles per hour, and they want it to get 40 miles per gallon. They want the budget to be balanced but they want more "Federal dollars" to come back and be spent in their community than they pay in taxes. Cut wasteful spending, but not the projects that benefit ME! Make me well, but don't make me take icky medicine or get a shot.

Sorry sometimes it doesn't matter what you WANT, you need to get what is practical.

19Lyds · April 19, 2006 10:03AM

I can hardly wait to see what these coins look like in real life! And as far as telling the difference between a quarter and the small dollar by feel! Gimme a break. When I'm peeling bills off my wad I always look to make sure I'm not giving out five's instead on one's!

All you gotta is pay attention to the change in your pocket! Sheesh!

bigbadchad777 · April 19, 2006 10:14AM

Do people actually spend the golden dollars?
Maybe in a slot machine...

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 10:54AM

<< Do people actually spend the golden dollars?
Maybe in a slot machine...

>>

I spend the golden dollars sometimes. I'll get them from the post office and spend them in vending machines or at the cafeteria at work.

I don't think there's a chance in hell a dollar coin will catch on unless the rag dollar is discontinued. I don't see a reason why people would adopt it widely. After all, it's more cumbersome to carry around dollar coins than dollar bills. Businesses won't want to have large amounts of dollar coins to make change with, either. The rag dollar is simply more convenient for commerce. It's just nowhere near as cool.

WillieBoyd2 · April 19, 2006 11:11AM

I have received more Canadian pennies in change than US Sac dollars.
(I live in US).

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 11:20AM

<< I have received more Canadian pennies in change than US Sac dollars.
(I live in US). >>

I think people's natural reaction to getting a Sac in change would be to hold on to it as being "rare". It's not something the average person comes across on a regular basis.

coinnut86 · April 19, 2006 1:27PM

Serious question here.. if the vending machine doesn't take sacs, it will just spit it out correct? or will it rip me off and take it?

Regards to the designs, I think they are more attractive than I thought they would be, but someone is bound to mess that up. Either way, I think ms Liberty should be brought back to the dollar coins, but I really don't like the metal content. Toning on them can become so incredible unattractive.

Dockwalliper · April 19, 2006 1:38PM

<< Serious question here.. if the vending machine doesn't take sacs, it will just spit it out correct? or will it rip me off and take it?
>>

I would think it would just spit it out like a foreign coin. All our machines at work (about 100) take them no problems and I make sure I have a few with me everyday. Its so much easier than feeding then bills.

KoinDawg · April 19, 2006 1:45PM

I hope the mint goes back to higher relief designs. The statehood quarters and the Westward Journey Nickels are no flat. They'll look like metal slugs after lots of wear. The Sacagawea dollar is pretty flat too. So I guess to appease the already transformed vending industry, higher relief may not work. We get pictures on metal rather than sculptures!!!

Conder101 · April 19, 2006 9:42PM

<< Serious question here.. if the vending machine doesn't take sacs, it will just spit it out correct? or will it rip me off and take it? >>

Usually if the machine won't accept them you can't even put them in the machine. There is a size restrictor on the coin slot where you put the coin in that won't let a coin that wide into the machine. (I've tried to put dollars into machines not set for them to test the common complaint "I spent dollars as quarters by mistake in the vending machine." So far I haven't been able to get a machine that wasn't set to accept then to even take one.) If it did get in it would probably drop right through because the machine would see it as too heavy to be a quarter and so would reject it..

Whitby · April 19, 2006 9:49PM

<< I hope the mint goes back to higher relief designs. The statehood quarters and the Westward Journey Nickels are no flat. They'll look like metal slugs after lots of wear. The Sacagawea dollar is pretty flat too. So I guess to appease the already transformed vending industry, higher relief may not work. We get pictures on metal rather than sculptures!!! >>

I agree. I think a return of Lady Liberty as another poster alluded to would be wonderful. The only thing I would add is a new Eagle design and (going out on a limb here) a cartwheel dollar coin. Hey, if I had to dream, I will dream big.

ritepath · April 19, 2006 10:25PM

<< 

<< Will it be confusing to have two coins about the same size with George Washington on them (the quarter and new dollar)? >>

The myth part is that it is confusing. The diameter difference between the quarter and dollar is abuout the same and the diameter difference between the nickel and quarter. But we don't hear a lot of complaints that people are getting confused and spending quarters as nickels. Which should actually be much more likely since the weight difference between those two is only .6 grams, a 12% difference. The weight difference between the quarter and dollar is 2.4 grams, a 43% difference. So we don't confuse two coins with a 12% difference, but we get confused by two coins with different colors and a 43% difference. Sounds like a lame excuse to me. >>

I don't know about the rest of you people but I've never mistaken a sac for a quarter.

Proposed Obverses for new Presidential Dollars

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