<< <i>In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do
This is completely false. I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes. >>
You are completely wrong. Read what I actually wrote. I said;
In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do).
What you are referring to is the “EXERCISE” of the options not the RECEIPT of the options which are two entirely different things. As I wrote in my earlier post, which you misquoted or misunderstood, there are NO taxes paid by the recipient of the options when the options are received and it is therefore a tax free event for the management elitists when they receive the options. At the same time, the corporation deducts the cost of those options. This is yet another one of those “non-transparent” management class perks that apparently fools guys like you but not guys like me (and thankfully does not fool SEC chairman Cox either).
Since you say you are an “expert” in handling stock options for your clients, I’m amazed that you do not know the difference between the receipt of an option and the exercise of an option. As an “expert,” you really should know the difference. But you apparently do not. Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong? matteproof >>
Nope not wrong.
What good is an option if you do not exercise it? If I give you a new car but you never drive it or you never sell it or use it as collateral, then who the hell cares? It is like a tree falling in the woods if no one is around.
You know, I really am with Lloydmincy on this one. If you dont like this country, then get the hell out!! The education system really left you behind. Where did I ever use the word "expert"?
Hey, let's go after Michael Eisner for taking $200 mm plus a year for being CEO of Disney. I could have paid less for my theme park tickets if it wasn't for greedy Mr. Eisner!!
Nope not wrong. What good is an option if you do not exercise it?
Sorry my friend, but you are just plain wrong. Furthermore, you did not respond to the points in my prior post, and now you compound your previous error by raising the preposterous idea that options unexercised have “no value.” If a stock is trading at, say, $50 per share, and an executive is given options with a strike price of, say, $10, the option has an INTRINSIC value of $40. So, if the corporate executive receives options that can be converted into, say, one million shares of stock, he has an AUTOMATIC gain of 40 million dollars at the time he receives the options, and he does NOT pay taxes on that “free money” at the time he received the options. Those options unquestionably have real intrinsic value whether he exercises them or not, at the moment he receives them. Yet, he pays no tax upon receipt of them. For you to now suggest that unexercised options have no real value until they are exercised is not only wrong but exceedingly wrong.
You know, I really am with Lloydmincy on this one. If you dont like this country, then get the hell out!!
I love my country very much and certainly will not leave. Your rash response just sounds like you are frustrated at being wrong.
Where did I ever use the word "expert"?
You said; "I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes."
If you handle options services for clients as described in your post (indeed, you say that you handle MANY options transactions for clients), would you dare do so without being an expert? matteproof
Remove the taxes and you would be paying about .50 cents a gallon.
Of course that is not true, not even close, and is positively absurd. As of 2005, the United States Federal gasoline tax was about 19 cents per gallon with States adding about another 25 cents (depending on the State, some are little higher some a little lower). With gasoline in the $3.00 per gallon range, you are at about $2.50 per gallon (round figures) after taxes – not the .50 cents per gallon that you suggest.
Exon is a profitable company and its stockholders are entitled to profits and lots of them.
Shareholder equity is diminished not increased with wild executive compensation and payouts. Where do you think the payouts, perks and salaries are coming from? The Corporate Treasury of course. Surely you know this. Right?
Socialism is dead at least the rest of the world seems to be shrugging it off, but it is alive and well in the USA.
Socialism is when the means of production and distribution of the goods derived from production are owned and controlled collectively by “the people” or by a centralized government who plans and controls the economy. Obviously, that is not occurring in America with respect to production and distribution. Thank GOD, socialism is not alive and well in America as you say it is. matteproof
Comments
How about Eisner (sp?) at Disney...$577M...I don't think he worked at Disney for 43 years?
Jobs at Apple...$775M....he was the founder however.
<< <i>
<< <i>In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do
This is completely false. I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes. >>
You are completely wrong. Read what I actually wrote. I said;
In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do).
What you are referring to is the “EXERCISE” of the options not the RECEIPT of the options which are two entirely different things. As I wrote in my earlier post, which you misquoted or misunderstood, there are NO taxes paid by the recipient of the options when the options are received and it is therefore a tax free event for the management elitists when they receive the options. At the same time, the corporation deducts the cost of those options. This is yet another one of those “non-transparent” management class perks that apparently fools guys like you but not guys like me (and thankfully does not fool SEC chairman Cox either).
Since you say you are an “expert” in handling stock options for your clients, I’m amazed that you do not know the difference between the receipt of an option and the exercise of an option. As an “expert,” you really should know the difference. But you apparently do not. Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong? matteproof >>
Nope not wrong.
What good is an option if you do not exercise it? If I give you a new car but you never drive it or you never sell it or use it as collateral, then who the hell cares? It is like a tree falling in the woods if no one is around.
You know, I really am with Lloydmincy on this one. If you dont like this country, then get the hell out!! The education system really left you behind. Where did I ever use the word "expert"?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Sorry my friend, but you are just plain wrong. Furthermore, you did not respond to the points in my prior post, and now you compound your previous error by raising the preposterous idea that options unexercised have “no value.” If a stock is trading at, say, $50 per share, and an executive is given options with a strike price of, say, $10, the option has an INTRINSIC value of $40. So, if the corporate executive receives options that can be converted into, say, one million shares of stock, he has an AUTOMATIC gain of 40 million dollars at the time he receives the options, and he does NOT pay taxes on that “free money” at the time he received the options. Those options unquestionably have real intrinsic value whether he exercises them or not, at the moment he receives them. Yet, he pays no tax upon receipt of them. For you to now suggest that unexercised options have no real value until they are exercised is not only wrong but exceedingly wrong.
You know, I really am with Lloydmincy on this one. If you dont like this country, then get the hell out!!
I love my country very much and certainly will not leave. Your rash response just sounds like you are frustrated at being wrong.
Where did I ever use the word "expert"?
You said; "I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes."
If you handle options services for clients as described in your post (indeed, you say that you handle MANY options transactions for clients), would you dare do so without being an expert? matteproof
Remove the taxes and you would be paying about .50 cents a gallon.
Of course that is not true, not even close, and is positively absurd. As of 2005, the United States Federal gasoline tax was about 19 cents per gallon with States adding about another 25 cents (depending on the State, some are little higher some a little lower). With gasoline in the $3.00 per gallon range, you are at about $2.50 per gallon (round figures) after taxes – not the .50 cents per gallon that you suggest.
Exon is a profitable company and its stockholders are entitled to profits and lots of them.
Shareholder equity is diminished not increased with wild executive compensation and payouts. Where do you think the payouts, perks and salaries are coming from? The Corporate Treasury of course. Surely you know this. Right?
Socialism is dead at least the rest of the world seems to be shrugging it off, but it is alive and well in the USA.
Socialism is when the means of production and distribution of the goods derived from production are owned and controlled collectively by “the people” or by a centralized government who plans and controls the economy. Obviously, that is not occurring in America with respect to production and distribution. Thank GOD, socialism is not alive and well in America as you say it is. matteproof
Cladiator, that's pretty interesting! Is that what that really is? Now I have to go look at mine.
<< <i>Cladiator, that's pretty interesting! Is that what that really is? Now I have to go look at mine. >>
Yup, it's a centering dot