Monarchy In The USA
matteproof
Posts: 722
The coins we collect feature words like: "In God We Trust and "Liberty." Themes like "Seated Liberty," Standing Liberty, Heraldic Eagles, and other such grand American ideals are everywhere in numismatics. Not much longer it seems.
Today, we have moved yet another step closer to the "New Monarchy" in America. A new level of shamelessness has been acheived by the already greedy, self-absorbed, repulsive, ignominious, and vulgar American corporate culture and their "management elite." Link is below. matteproof
Monarchy In The USA
Today, we have moved yet another step closer to the "New Monarchy" in America. A new level of shamelessness has been acheived by the already greedy, self-absorbed, repulsive, ignominious, and vulgar American corporate culture and their "management elite." Link is below. matteproof
Monarchy In The USA
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Russ, NCNE
There's nothing new about the monarchy in the US- and this is OT....
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
And don't give me that cr*p about passing the expense along to the consumer. The market sets the price of gas, not Exxon.
Edited to say, to bring this back on topic, it won't cost coin collectors a cent if HRH blows $10 million in Vegas this weekend. Why should things be any different with Exxon?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>To address this idiot-- I knew Raymond briefly when he was at Exxon Production Reaseach. He is paid at lot because he is very smart and no one wants Shell Oil to hire him away! Still the salery is very high I agree, but all the multi-millions quoted are from the Exxon Company USA stock purchase plan. IT IS AVAILABLE TO ALL EXXON workers-- the same deal-- whether you PUMP GAS, drill wells, or sit on the board of directors. You get stock at 1/2 market value instead of pay (50-50 match)-- you must keep it, and if it is up $ 10 or 20 times more after 25 years (with dividends)- you might be well off at retirement. Or you might work for ENRON--
You really think he doesn't get free stock and preferred stock deals?
Ever since 1909, the Mint has churned out coins with presidents on them, as if these images were on par with the high ideals our coinage started out with. Putting presidents on coinage (even posthumously) is treating them like royalty, and it sickens me. I would not have a problem with a one-year, commemorative issue of such a coin, with the president on the reverse, but to replace the idealized portrait of Liberty with our very mortal, humanly flawed presidents is an abomination. When will we be lead back to our ideals, rather than this obscene idol worship?
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>The coins we collect feature words like: "In God We Trust and "Liberty." Themes like "Seated Liberty," Standing Liberty, Heraldic Eagles, and other such grand American ideals are everywhere in numismatics. Not much longer it seems. >>
A big lead-in to an off topic post.
<< <i>A big lead-in to an off topic post. >>
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
If you are ticked at Exxon, you may blow a gasket over this one...CEO of Yahoo made $230 million, even though Yahoo is irrelevant to our economy.
Which way to the Yahoo protest?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Fair enough. Many Americans do care. Maybe one day you will too.
And don't give me that cr*p about passing the expense along to the consumer..
I never said a thing about passing anything to the consumer. If you think that I'm wrong, please show me where I said that in my post.
The market sets the price of gas, not Exxon.
The recent massive increase in the earnings reports recorded by Big Oil, where records in corporate profit history were attained, suggests that you are very wrong. These increased massive profits were revealed in the periods subsequent to the gargantuan increase in the cost of per-gallon gasoline at the pump; which means that Mr. and Mrs. average America provided and paid for these far reaching profits.
Attention: hummer, Expedition, Suburban etc ad nauseum owners. Look in the mirror when you fill your tanks. You'll see the reason for such high fuel prices.
Not really. You either believe in the American concepts that are featured on our coins or you don't. When the scales are so vastly tipped in favor of a chosen few, many of whom are awarded their vast riches by "boards of directors" comprised of others in their own ilk, rather than the shareholders or the rank and file employees of the company (many whose own jobs have been outsourced by this brood) then, as I see it, you have the makings of a monarchy or at least a very elite fiefdom. matteproof
Listen, I am sick of hearing about people complain about fuel prices. Especially when they are driving an SUV! You can buy a hybrid, even a hybrid SUV now.
Exxon shareholders approved the pay package, it's their 'fault' and their desire to pi$$ away wealth on high compensation.
matteproof, not directed at you but AMericans have become such whiners in recent years. We used to be about ingenuity and hard work. Now it's about finger pointing and jealousy when someone else is benefiting.
We cry about how the Arabs are charging too much for oil and the govt should do something about it. But how often do we hear foreign nations complain about our pharmaceutical exports being too costly? Or our Boeing airplanes? Do they lobby our govt to lower the price?
Keep free markets free!!!!
<< <i>Are you lost?
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, as much as I respect your numismatic acumen, your razor-sharp wit and your pithy comments, I have to wonder how you can not take seriously the possibillity that we, as a nation, are close to losing our heritage, our leadership among free nations, our financial stability and indeed our future?
Is it not akin to global warming? Is it not blantant denial to attribute global warming wholly to natural weather cycles?
In both cases do we not ignore threatening possibilities at our peril?
Uh oh, now I've done it.... ducking for cover..... I'm really a nice guy, Russ, honest! Rob
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<< <i>Fair enough. Many Americans do care. Maybe one day you will too. >>
It's not mutually exclusive to care AND to think this should be in the Open Forum.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you lost?
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, as much as I respect your numismatic acumen, your razor-sharp wit and your pithy comments, I have to wonder how you can not take seriously the possibillity that we, as a nation, are close to losing our heritage, our leadership among free nations, our financial stability and indeed our future?
Is it not akin to global warming? Is it not blantant denial to attribute global warming wholly to natural weather cycles?
In both cases do we not ignore threatening possibilities at our peril?
Uh oh, now I've done it.... ducking for cover..... I'm really a nice guy, Russ, honest! Rob >>
Open forum fodder. Thread will be moved, no doubt. - I'll get another one of those emails.
Nice Busties, Dave!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Keep free markets free!!!!!!!
If by "free market" you mean an ideological system where supply and demand are unregulated, and where transactions within it are such that there isn't any special privilege or special access for some, then I agree. Otherwise, where is the "free" in "free markets?"
Especially when they are driving an SUV! You can buy a hybrid, even a hybrid SUV now.
Hybrids, although not bad, are still dependent on so-called "fossil fuel," and the cost of owning a hybrid at current prices mitigates the savings (if any) in gas price. I'm a believer in a pure 100% "non" fossil fuel energy concept: wind, solar, or clean other. If one believes in a truly free market, then the market must be truly free - and this includes the ability for young entreprenurs to have free access at getting their new energy inventions and workable ideas into the market. The technology for clean alternative power is already long in place.
Exxon shareholders approved the pay package, it's their 'fault' and their desire to pi$$ away wealth on high compensation.
The specifics surrounding corporate officer compensation arrangements typically come under the rubric of the "board of directors" at a company. Normally, this is done through a company's "compensation polices" which are certainly not determined by the guy working on the conveyor belt or the grandma who owns 100 shares of stock.
matteproof, not directed at you but AMericans have become such whiners in recent years. We used to be about ingenuity and hard work..
Yes, I hear you and I agree. Yet, as I see it, debate and discussion is not "whining." To my thinking, as numismatists, we have an obligation to constantly study and observe the nature of freedom, liberty, and what "Americana" really is. These are the concepts and the spirit that make up the real meanings behind the obverse and reverse of our coins. I know others collect coins for things like profit, or simply because it's fun or challenging - and I respect that too. matteproof
Yes, I hear you. However, I disagree that the topic should be in the Open Forum. In my view, the topic has everything to do with numismatics - unless you believe that numismatics is only about the eye appeal, lustre, toning, and grade of a coin. To me, American numismatics is more - FAR more - than this. matteproof
I actually would love to lead this country; I would truly be a people's president. So remember to vote for me when I run for office in 2028! King Gamron.... I mean President Gamron
And in all honesty, the problem with corporate America is WHO is at the top. It seems to me that it is very hard for a truly capable person to advance in the workplace. I fear that I will be surpassed in my career by those who are willing to cut corners, who have the right connections, and who are completely incapable when compared to me. I even have a feeling of this when I search for colleges. It seems like you have to be born into some special group to truly get ahead in life, regardless of how smart you are. At some extremely selective schools, like ivy leagues, it feels as if they sometimes care more about who your family is and how much they are worth rather than who you are. It feels like a middle class midwestern kid is simply there as a face in the crowd, to fill a slot in there diversity quota.
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Big OIL...Big OIL...Big OIL...Big OIL...Big OIL...Big OIL...
..............
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>A big lead-in to an off topic post.
Not really. You either believe in the American concepts that are featured on our coins or you don't. When the scales are so vastly tipped in favor of a chosen few, many of whom are awarded their vast riches by "boards of directors" comprised of others in their own ilk, rather than the shareholders or the rank and file employees of the company (many whose own jobs have been outsourced by this brood) then, as I see it, you have the makings of a monarchy or at least a very elite fiefdom. matteproof >>
I see why you "think" this way--- I posted early on that ALL the employees (your "rank and file" and "shareholders") can and do put away a large part of their salery with a 50% match at EXXON Company USA. The largest shareholder group at EXXON is their former and current emplyees. There is zero elite about it--Get a job at an Exxon Gas station, buy some stock, and stop your ignorant whining!!
When some individuals earn millions per year, 50% of that salary sum for investment purposes is outrageously different from 50% of rank and file employee salaries at the 50k (or less) per year zone. Furthermore, the CEO's and management group recieve stock option plans that are entirely greater and vastly different than rank and file employees; many of whom do not receive any stock options at all. Moreover, stock options with outrageously low "strike prices" are the ones that the management class often enjoys. In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do). Accordingly, the individuals who individually receive the largest actual number of stock options (and therefore dollar equivalents or shares of stock) are the management and corporate officers, and it is they who benefit outrageously while the measley paid rank and file individually gets a pittance or nothing at all.
The largest shareholder group at EXXON is their former and current emplyees. There is zero elite about it--
You are trying to compare the collective retirement plans of tens of thousands of former and current employees, over a period of about one hundred years (or from about the time of the co's inception until now) with the retirement plans of a few, small, select, elite group of CEO's and corporate officers. It is an absurd comparison. Will you admit that your comparison is absurd? In addition, the ceo's, management class and corporate officers are INCLUDED in your "largest shareholder" employee number.
Futhermore, the rank and file employees do not receive many other perks that the management elite receive such as: free transportation, travel, entertainment, personal expenses and the whole other litany of the many costly "golden parachute" perks enjoyed by corporate officers and the managment elites across corporate America (perks that are not taxable to the management elite recipients yet tax deductible to the company) and they are perks and golden parachutes that are postively denied to the rank and file employees.
Get a job at an Exxon Gas station, buy some stock, and stop your ignorant whining!
I've pumped gas in my day and enjoyed the hard and honest work surrounding it. However, you are very much mistaken in your exceedingly silly suggestion that an employee at an Exxon gas station (or any other corporate gas station) has the same retirement plan, options, perks, etc as the management class. matteproof
I do both. What about you? matteproof
<< <i>There are some funny people here. >>
Funny? I call them whackjobs.
They cost us millions and contribute nothing.
(Echo, echo....)
Why won't anyone protest the obscene profits and CEO pay at the "high tech" (sic) companies....
Most CEO compensations across corporate America are outrageously self-serving and vulgar. There are a few exceptions but they are very few. One prominent survey suggested that as of the year 2000, CEO salaries were 531 times that of the average hourly worker. Note that "average hourly worker" includes very high paying salaries within the average. So, CEO salaries are even higher than this already absurd figure suggests. You can bet that number has climbed more since the year 2000 too.
SEC Chairman Christopher Cox is quoted as recently saying that too often the largest share of executive payouts “almost entirely” eludes disclosure. In other words, the corporate eltists receive perks and benefits that are unknown to most, and that far outweigh the already absurd compensations that they actually do reveal and report. Perhaps that is how a nearly half a billion dollar payout went virtually undetected by shareholders as well as by at least one United States Senator. In the meantime, Chairman Cox is pushing to require that the corporate officers and board of director sycophants report the depth of executive payouts to shareholders with far more clarity. But you can bet he will face resistance from America's neo-monarchists in the management class.
On a slightly different note, I believe that founding individuals of companies are entitled to their high compensation since it was their entreprenurial spirit and vision that created the successful company from scratch in the first place. However, in my view, no such thing can be said about hyped up elitist "management" brought into a company "after the fact." As far as I'm concerned, they are worth about $12 per hour and their "job" can just as easily be outsourced to India instead of the average workers jobs that the management ilk have laid upon America to their own gain. matteproof
<< <i>I do both. What about you? matteproof >>
I do too........But I am not a whiner, you should not splurge. You should give your money to others. You should not buy things that you like. The coins you buy can be seen by others with less, as a plain display of arrogance and selfishness...shame on you matteproof..
Founding entreprenuers are forced aside as their company makes the jump from micro to small. Much less small to mid-size. In order to secure financing for expansion, the Aristocracy either places "their people," or no financing happens. Friends and family of other Executives are magically qualified management experts...
This is completely false. I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The coins we collect feature words like: "In God We Trust and "Liberty." Themes like "Seated Liberty," Standing Liberty, Heraldic Eagles, and other such grand American ideals are everywhere in numismatics. Not much longer it seems.
Today, we have moved yet another step closer to the "New Monarchy" in America. A new level of shamelessness has been acheived by the already greedy, self-absorbed, repulsive, ignominious, and vulgar American corporate culture and their "management elite." Link is below. matteproof
Monarchy In The USA >>
Truly in the price of a gallon of gasoline there is more tax money paid then profit to Exon or any other oil company.
Remove the taxes and you would be paying about .50 cents a gallon.
There is no shortage of oil in the USA but rather a shortage of refining capacity. There has not been a new refinery built in
about twenty years since the restrictions and cost ($1,000,000,000) to build one is prohibitive. It was the demosocialists
who made it impossible to build refineries, create nuclear energy, and explore for new sources of energy.
We are America because we are a capitalistic society, if you have a vision or an idea and work a little bit harder than
the next person you can make it and make it big.
The oil companies are only the latest boogeyman of the left coast, they have created this mess with their restrictions and
mandated controls, just look at the coming welfare state of California.
Exon is a profitable company and its stockholders are entitled to profits and lots of them.
Socialism is dead at least the rest of the world seems to be shrugging it off, but it is alive and well in the USA.
I suppose you would like to see a re-distribution of wealth also? Why should someone make 100K a year when others are making $30K?
If we take just $35K away from the $100K person then they are both making $65K which is more equitable? this country really
I believe the little whining lefties in this country need to look at the real problem, and its you!
I've never idolized a president. Their face on a coin means little to me. Who says "liberty" is flawless?
<< a car and a driver>>
OMG, who approved THAT??? I could see the $400,000,000, but a Car AND A DRIVER???
<<They cost us millions and contribute nothing>>
What an ignorant statement. Fishhooker, you have to HAVE a million for it to cost you that. Yahoo saves me thousands of dollars a month at work, along with Google.
Matteproof - like everyone else, you are "free" to boycott gasoline, sell your car and walk. I bet your whining would crescendo...
<<Is it not akin to global warming?>>
I love global warming!!! In Michigan, where I spend 3/4's my time, we have had record warm weather the past year!!! YAHOOOOO!!!
<<This should be on the OF board>>
Stop your whining. Half the posts on this board with all the hypotheticals should be OF.
It's funny. Everytime someone makes big money in this wonderful free, capitalistic US of A of ours, someone, (I bet most) of the jealous whiners are those that waste 5 hours of their day "costing us millions and contributing nothing"!!! - by doing nothing. If Yahoo contributes nothing, spending ANY time on coins (looking at coins, buying them, etc.) contributes nothing. (whatever "contributes nothing" means).
This is a fun, great thread. Better than reading, "How often do you purchase the Red Book???!!!
I'm with Russ. I love this place.
<< <i>In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do
This is completely false. I have done many option exercises for clients and every one of the them had to pay for the shares and I gave them a check for the proceeds less taxes. >>
You are completely wrong. Read what I actually wrote. I said;
In addition, stock options are not paid for "out of pocket," they are obtained free (at no cost), and the recipients usually do not even pay taxes on the reciept of those options (as they should be required to do).
What you are referring to is the “EXERCISE” of the options not the RECEIPT of the options which are two entirely different things. As I wrote in my earlier post, which you misquoted or misunderstood, there are NO taxes paid by the recipient of the options when the options are received and it is therefore a tax free event for the management elitists when they receive the options. At the same time, the corporation deducts the cost of those options. This is yet another one of those “non-transparent” management class perks that apparently fools guys like you but not guys like me (and thankfully does not fool SEC chairman Cox either).
Since you say you are an “expert” in handling stock options for your clients, I’m amazed that you do not know the difference between the receipt of an option and the exercise of an option. As an “expert,” you really should know the difference. But you apparently do not. Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong? matteproof
<< <i><<
I'm with Russ. I love this place.
I, too, love this country. Is it not a given that we all do? And I love many of the important people that helped shape her and therefore am attached to the SBA dollar coin, however misfortunate this effort at tribute proved to be.
It is because I love my country that I pay attention to global warming: when Florida is subsumed by rising oceans as my grandchild-to-be reaches the best years of her life (she finally overcame her shyness and proved convincingly she is all girl on her last ultrasound), I would be ashamed if I had not done what little I could to draw attention to this possibly still managable threat.
Even Michigan will see wholesale changes in its magnificent UP forrests; and, don't forget, global warming will prbably come on with increasingly violent weather patterns. YAHOOOO??????????
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