Where is the Partial E located on a 1887 VAM-1B?

moosesr · April 11, 2006 5:36AM

Is the Partial E on a 1887 VAM-1B really where it is shown in the Morgan VAM Book? I have found a 1887 with clashing that looks like there might be a partial E in a different spot than shown in the VAM book. Auction Link It looks like there is a partial E under the first eagle tail feather on the left.

Thanks,
Charlie

Agflyer · April 11, 2006 5:47AM

I see what you're looking at and my first thought was that it is not a clashed E. There are, however, lots of great clashes on the reverse and I would think it might be reasonable to expect a partial E to pop up. Good luck, it looks like a great coin.

moosesr · April 11, 2006 7:56AM

DennisH · April 11, 2006 8:07AM

If you ever do find a 1B, it will absolutely qualify for a "YOU SUCK"!

Good luck!

KoinDawg · April 11, 2006 11:23AM

Look on page120-121 of Van Allen and Mallis book, 4th edition. You will see clashed die examples that look just like the coin you're looking at. However, according to the book, only a full "E" showing on the reverse is worth any premium and has been found only in 1886-O, 1889-O, and 1891-O. The pictures show the E or partial E located under the eagles 2nd tailfeather to the left side of the ribbon loop.

Partial E showing has been found for 1878-P VAM 84, 1880-P, 1883-O, 1884-P, 1887-P, 1888-O and 1891-O.

"Clashed die coins are generally not collectible since they are so common. The exception is when an E from Liberty shows on the reverse. A partial E is collected to a minor degree and generally does not command a premium. A full E is more desirable and it brings a premium depending upon its rarity."

coindeuce · April 11, 2006 11:29AM

The value of the 1887 VAM 1B Clashed E reverse is not based on the fact that it has a partially clashed E, but by the fact that it is known to have ocurred on a very limited basis. Very few examples have been found, even though the particular example was discovered prior to 1997. IMHO, 9 years of vigorous searching by specialists with very limited success bears this point out. The partial E should always have the same positioning as all of the other known clashed E reverse Morgan dates.

coindeuce · April 11, 2006 11:33AM

Koindawg forgot to include the 1889-O VAM 1A in the grouping of known partial clashed E reverses. The '89-O VAM 1A is likely the second most rare partial clashed E reverse after the 1887 VAM 1B.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · April 11, 2006 11:34AM

There is a crack through the date that can be used to confirm the attribution. Jack has one and hopefully he will post it.

Rob

coindeuce · April 11, 2006 11:37AM

Wonder what ever happened to Pete Bishal's discovery piece of '87 1B????

MAD4MORGANS · April 11, 2006 12:24PM

CLASHED E

FULL
1886-O
1889-O SCARCEST
1891-0 MOST COMMON

PARTIAL E
1878-P VAM-84
1880-P
1883-O
1887-P
1888-O
1884-P

coindeuce · April 11, 2006 1:23PM

I stand by my contention that the '89-O is known both as full clashed E AND partial, or Weak clashed E. BTW, isn't that Clashed Die guide copyrighted??

Coxe · April 11, 2006 1:34PM

The precise location of the E clash on the varieties is determined by the precise die rotation of the reverse relative to the obverse. If you have an E clash, it is far easier to determine the particular variety by comparing the wing and neck clash positions. An excellent resource for the VAM collecting community would be images for those. I think I will scan whatever I have handy and put them up. This si the case for all clashed varieties. At least I base my judgement on several of them when cherrypicking on those positions as well as the number of neck and wing clashes.

Wolf359 · April 11, 2006 3:56PM

If you have an E clash, it is far easier to determine the particular variety by comparing the wing and neck clash positions.

That's what I use. Also die cracks.

MAD4MORGANS · April 11, 2006 8:35PM

<< <i>I stand by my contention that the '89-O is known both as full clashed E AND partial, or Weak clashed E. BTW, isn't that Clashed Die guide copyrighted?? >>

Yes, by me.

Where is the Partial E located on a 1887 VAM-1B?

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