Is there a VAM price guide?

BlindedByEgo · March 3, 2006 4:30PM

Anywhere on the 'net? Even just for the top 100?

I've been cherrypicking BU rolls. Found smoe neat stuff - photos tomorrow.

Rampage · March 3, 2006 10:41PM

There was a recent thread about this with the exact same question within a week or so. There is no set price guide online. eBay is probably the best price guide. However, there is a quarterly newsletter with a price guide for the Top 100s. But, I think those prices are averages of recent auction/private sales. The VAMView lists the VAMs in their online publication with the sale price (auction, private trade, etc.).

coinnut86 · March 4, 2006 12:58PM

someone needs to make one

Coxe · March 5, 2006 12:48AM

Not on the net AFAIK. Michael Fey publishes a quarterly sheet for the top 100 for subscribers of his Insights newsletter. VAMView tracks realized prices from a number of sales sources. vamlink.com is still not up (website for SSDC) but might have such information in the future. Searching in Heritage's Permanent Auction Archives and at Teletrade (but note TT uses V- and VAM- prefixes) might help some. A lot of it is still in flux as new, enthusiastic collectors are coming aboard all the time and you also have set collectors who need just a scant few to complete who will bring bids up on select varieties when they appear at the right times. The PCGS populations are also starting to take shape since their service is processing top/hot VAMs now and the market is watching there closely, though big surprises are probably not going to materialize there.

MORGANHUNTER2 · March 5, 2006 12:52AM

it seems like it is time to put this in the mix.
With anacs listing Vams, and NGC doing it, and of course pCGS now has a registry for them- it might behoove all the 'dons' to start whipping up a pricing guide for us collectors to base a price on a certain Vam.

DennisH · March 5, 2006 1:45AM

I totally agree that it would be wonderful to have a VAM price guide, and there is certainly a need for one. But there are several huge logistical and philosophical problems that make trying to assemble one an uphill battle every step of the way:

1. Which VAMs do you list? There are over 4,000 of them known, and if you include the clashing subvarieties the number gets even more crazy. Something less than 400 would probably get the job done most of the time, though.

2. Which grades do you list? The Redbook only has five for Morgans, which is useless. The Grey Sheet has 11, but that still ignores a bunch of "real world" split grades that collectors face all of the time, like the various Very Fines and AUs. Twenty is probably closer to what is needed, but that would require a hugely wide sheet to line them all up. And if anyone wants to be able to read the silly thing without using a 10-power loupe, the font size will take up a fair amount of room.

3. To put it mildly, prices for the most popular VAMs are still exceedingly "active". Particularly for scarce VAMs in higher grades, the values can be wildly unpredictable when two or more collectors with resources who are also frustrated at not having been able to find the same coin get into a wrestling match.

4. What quality of coins should be listed? In 15 months of collecting VAM prices for VAMview, I can assure you that coins in PCGS holders sell for more than anything else at least 90% of the time. Next in the feeding chain is NGC. Next is ANACS, Next is everything else. Last is raw. It's not uncommon for the difference between a PCGS-grade VAM and a raw VAM sold at the same grade, to vary in price by 500% or more. Should a price guide list the highest prices for a VAM based upon them being in a PCGS holder, anyone's holder, or raw?

5. Should a price guide only list prices for problem-free coins (or at least those sold as problem-free)? Historically, VAMs have been collected without great regard for surface originality; collectors were more interested in having an example, period, and less concerned about cleaning, scratches, etc. However, as the VAM market has broadened to collectors who are accustomed to certified coins, raw coins are not being embraced by many. Plus, getting many VAMs into certified holders is simply impossible due to their problems. As a result, the demand for scarce VAMs in top-tier holders is intense right now... which gets us back to item #3 above.

I follow VAM prices every single day and there is not one that goes by where I am not amazed by at least one wildly high -- or wildly low -- price someone has just paid. I regularly see no consistency whatsoever for some of the prices being paid. Accuracy of a price guide would be extremely hit and miss, and it would be outdated in a matter of weeks.

Yale68 · March 6, 2006 9:45AM

A price guide (even a lousy one) may do more to smooth out the wild fluctuations than most realize.

Coxe · March 6, 2006 9:55AM

There are also the problems of cherrypicking and questionable attribution per internet images and similar. Vanilla cherrypicking excludes wider competition and thus might not realize prices consistent with the broader VAM market. Questionable attribution often will hold maximum bids back too. Do you only price based on prices observed by attributed slabs or those attributed by unquestionably knowledgeable sources? It can get very hairy. However, any attempt would be welcomed, I am sure. I suggest including those VAMs attributed by PCGS and NGC for starters and add ones that appear on the market beyond those with premium valuations. The clashed dies, new finds, fun ones not in top lists, ... would eventually creep in that way. I would suspect all 1878-P would quickly be priced. That alone would be indispensible. In any event, such a guide would have to be a living guide with a planned with feedback control that would bring prices up commensurate with increasing bids but not allow single event spikes to affect moderately traded varieties' valuations.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · March 6, 2006 11:27AM

Don't forget you often just -can't- be bought. Case in point, somebody find me an 1878-S Thornhead series coins VAMs 1B2 or 1B7. I'm a buyer! I could list 30 other VAMs I'd buy today if they were for sale... I just can't find'em. With a web search, I can find several 1893-S morgans or 1895 proof morgans. While many of the more mainstream VAMs do sell, they do so infrequently and a price guide is no good if the coin rarely sells.

Rob

Is there a VAM price guide?

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