AT vs NT what are the rules?

Kingtut · February 20, 2006 7:04AM

If I place a coin in an envelope in 1990 in a controlled environment specifically suited to conditions right for toning and ten years later it is monster would this be AT or NT? How many years is required in this scenario to become NT?

After watching and reading about this debate in numerous threads over the last few days. I must ask if the TPG’s are not to be trusted in the quality of their work in toned or un-toned submissions then whys it so important to have their slabs?
I ask since there seems to be a considerable amount of displeasure with the quality of their expertise by a number of very knowledgeable members.

MrSpud · February 20, 2006 7:16AM

I think that if a coin looks AT, whether it is NT or AT, that the coin will have a hard time getting in a reputable TPG slab. In other words, if it looks too similar to known AT coins the TPG would have to err on the side of caution and not slab it in order to prevent liability and/or damage to their reputation. Also, if an AT coin looks NT it has a good chance of getting holdered. This is because the TPG companies have to holder toned coins if they look legit or they would have to just never slab any coin with toning on it which would be unacceptable to collectors. I think this is why people speak in terms of market acceptable or market unacceptable.

Russ · February 20, 2006 7:26AM

<< AT vs NT what are the rules? >>

If it's slabbed it's NT. If it's raw it's AT - until it gets slabbed.

Russ, NCNE

Baley · February 20, 2006 7:48AM

I'd say it's a not a black and white issue, not simply a binary choice between NT and AT.

It's more of a continuum, a "spectrum" if you will allow a play on words

from 100% guaranteed NT (Mint bags of silver dollars, early proof and mint sets in their original packaging, etc...)

to 100% guaranteed AT, such as the easy to spot "rainbow toners" that Jethro baked in his sulfer oven this morning and are on ebay this afternoon.

the tricky grey areas are as you mentioned, the coins in albums (esp. Wayte Raymond) for a few months or a few years that were stored in "favorable environments", the coins in Capital and other aftermarket holders for many years, the coins with endroll, envelope, and textile toning from the velvet of coin drawers and the cloth of keepsake storage bags.

Since all of the above effects can be 'simulated' and accelerated, each coin must stand on it's own merits.

an experienced eye may not know 100% of the history of a coin before it's purchased, but one can make educated guesses.

The big lesson: the days of "if it's holdered by one of the top 3, that's good enough for me" are over.

each coin must stand on the merits of it's appearance.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 20, 2006 7:51AM

<< 

<< AT vs NT what are the rules? >>

If it's slabbed it's NT. If it's raw it's AT - until it gets slabbed.

Russ, NCNE >>

LOL...you are brilliant, Russ..... Anyone who doesn't get a laugh from some of your posts needs drugs.

ER · February 20, 2006 7:57AM

<< 

<< AT vs NT what are the rules? >>

If it's slabbed it's NT. If it's raw it's AT - until it gets slabbed.

Russ, NCNE >>

BlindedByEgo · February 20, 2006 7:58AM

<< 

<< AT vs NT what are the rules? >>

If it's slabbed it's NT. If it's raw it's AT - until it gets slabbed.

Russ, NCNE >>

You forgot to add: "...by the right TPG"

ER · February 20, 2006 8:00AM

<< 

<< 

<< AT vs NT what are the rules? >>

If it's slabbed it's NT. If it's raw it's AT - until it gets slabbed.

Russ, NCNE >>

You forgot to add: "...by the right TPG"

>>

By a "highly respected" TPG.

ibzman350 · February 20, 2006 8:02AM

<<Anyone who doesn't get a laugh from some of your posts needs drugs.>>

Heck, I crack up laughing all the time at Russ's replies and I still need drugs..

Herb

Baley · February 20, 2006 8:28AM

I'm sorry, I was trying to address the original posters legitimate and complicated questions

I didn't know we were doing glib platitudes today.

here's my contribution: if you like it, buy it, if you don't, don't.

terse and smart ass enough?

Deadhorse · February 20, 2006 8:46AM

It's all a matter of being "market acceptable".

Trained eyes can rule out AT coins pretty fast and well as rule in true NTs.

Accelerated Toning can often be quite acceptable and bring big money, but most of them are better off dipped out. Sometimes blind luck helps more than anything else.

Often it depends on the type of coin involved. Certain coins tone differently than others. For example, wild rainbows on a Kennedy just don't seem to fit.

Myqqy · February 20, 2006 8:54AM

If I place a coin in an envelope in 1990 in a controlled environment specifically suited to conditions right for toning and ten years later it is monster would this be AT or NT?

I think that a coin that has been sitting in an envelope for 15 years would be considered by most to be NT- blatant AT coins are often "cooked" up or chemicalized, and are done in a matter of minutes or hours....

I must ask if the TPG?s are not to be trusted in the quality of their work in toned or un-toned submissions then whys it so important to have their slabs?

It's important for most because of marketability and for trying to generate as much value as possible when it comes time to sell. With many coins, toned or otherwise, the plastic and the grade on the insert play a considerable role in determining value in the current market.

BAJJERFAN · February 20, 2006 11:14AM

I must ask if the TPG?s are not to be trusted in the quality of their work in toned or un-toned submissions then whys it so important to have their slabs?

It's important for most because of marketability and for trying to generate as much value as possible when it comes time to sell. With many coins, toned or otherwise, the plastic and the grade on the insert play a considerable role in determining value in the current market.

*************

While the TPG's pass judgement on the toning they also give a grade. A nice toner in 66 or 67 will be worth MORE than the same toned coin in 62 or 63 largely beause of lower pops and grade/condition rarity and of course the higher graded coins are more desired by collectors.

AT vs NT what are the rules?

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