Chinese slab. How long before they start faking top tier slabs?

Oldnewbie · February 17, 2006 2:01AM

This auction was posted in another thread. I thought perhaps it needed it's own thread for disscusion.

What do you think? If, or should I say when, the Chinese start putting fake coins in fake PCGS or NGC slabs, what effect will it have on the hobby?

Link to Chinese slab.

JDelage · February 17, 2006 2:02AM

I don't know why it should matter more than any of the US-based jokers... People know to only trust (within limits) a small number of TPGs.

Burks · February 17, 2006 2:04AM

Wouldn't running the Cert #'s verify if the slab and coin are authentic?

ziggy29 · February 17, 2006 2:08AM

<< Wouldn't running the Cert #'s verify if the slab and coin are authentic? >>

What's to stop them from doing cert lookups until they find one they can use with the fake coin they're trying to peddle?

Burks · February 17, 2006 2:10AM

<< 

<< Wouldn't running the Cert #'s verify if the slab and coin are authentic? >>

What's to stop them from doing cert lookups until they find one they can use with the fake coin they're trying to peddle? >>

Good point. I'm sure they already though about that.

It certainly wouldn't work if the grade difference was dead obvious. Trying to pass off a AU58 coin as a PCGS MS65 wouldn't work (unless there are horrid pictures and a somewhat uneducated bidder).

TheRaven · February 17, 2006 2:25AM

I would not even look at something like this.....

19Lyds · February 17, 2006 2:27AM

This link (from 9/2003) shows that there are already counterfeit slabs out there. So, not much of an effect other than the typical "buyer beware"!

1977topps · February 17, 2006 2:42AM

There are so many red flags in this auction, it's not even funny.

mhammerman · February 17, 2006 2:55AM

Yeah...Im gonna buy some so I can get the exquisite and beautiful chinese gift...yum!

kiyote · February 17, 2006 3:18AM

You can't fake proper grammer...

(From the auction in question)

Hi! Friend, now you are bidding on a beautiful silver coin. It was made of pure silver and by the antique skillful. Particular style!! It is a good stuff which can express antique handwork technique.It has high value of collecting.

Pushkin · February 17, 2006 3:23AM

<< There are so many red flags in this auction, it's not even funny. >>

PerryHall · February 17, 2006 4:22AM

More red flags than a May Day parade.

DeputyPud · February 17, 2006 4:26AM

Lord, forgive me for what I'm thinking right now!!!

robertpr · February 17, 2006 4:26AM

<< 

<< There are so many red flags in this auction, it's not even funny. >>

>>

Now, how many times do you see scammers addressing their audience by saying "Hi Friend" or something similar? How many legitimate sales pitches start off in that manner? Why is it that scammers use this?

jmj3esq · February 17, 2006 4:30AM

I was the one who originally posted a link to this auction. The first time I viewed the auction the seller's feedback was not "private." Some time within the last couple hours the seller made his feedback private. Im glad I listened to you guys. I have never dealt with trade dollars and did not realize the were so rampantly faked. I am just going to stick to Morgans.

LastExitInNY · February 17, 2006 4:32AM

<< 
What do you think? If, or should I say when, the Chinese start putting fake coins in fake PCGS or NGC slabs, what effect will it have on the hobby? >>

As long as they don't put any MSG in them...

earlwbollinger · February 17, 2006 4:33AM

I asked one of my associates who is Chinese as to what it said and she said it reads as "Beijing Old money recognition center"
I don't know if someone started a TPG in China or not, but it would be pretty neat if they did and were really good about it.

Weiss · February 17, 2006 4:36AM

On a similiar thread several weeks ago, I mentioned that TGPs could start using a web-based system of tracking ownership. Voluntary, of course. Could make use of RFID tags, and the whole shebang could be set up with technology already available. Scanners at point of sale, or else just a little data entry. The TGPs could even charge a little extra for the service.

It's kind of like the Omega $20 gold piece forger, though. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when his mark in the eagle's claw became known. But he could just as easily begun making them without the mark.

These counterfeiters, be they Chinese or American, could already have begun putting good quality fakes in good quality fake TGP slabs.

earlwbollinger · February 17, 2006 4:47AM

You know at the current costs for RFID chips, putting them in the slabs would be great, and it wouldn't add significantly to the cost either.
I mean think about it, you could scan your coin and have all the data and information about it entered directly in your own inventory automatically. If the RFID tag is embedded in the plastic it would be difficult for a person faking it to get it out to reuse. I won't say impossible though.
I would think all the bigger dealers and such would be clamboring for such a device.
At this time tracking ownership history might be impossible, but once the RFID tag chips were in use for a while such a system would become a lot more possible.
The current bar code is limited, and basically only meaningful to PCGS or the grading service that made it.

TorinoCobra71 · February 17, 2006 4:57AM

First Time I Have Seen One Like That!

TorinoCobra71

Hyperion · February 17, 2006 6:32AM

<< You know at the current costs for RFID chips, putting them in the slabs would be great, and it wouldn't add significantly to the cost either.
I mean think about it, you could scan your coin and have all the data and information about it entered directly in your own inventory automatically. If the RFID tag is embedded in the plastic it would be difficult for a person faking it to get it out to reuse. I won't say impossible though.
I would think all the bigger dealers and such would be clamboring for such a device.
At this time tracking ownership history might be impossible, but once the RFID tag chips were in use for a while such a system would become a lot more possible.
The current bar code is limited, and basically only meaningful to PCGS or the grading service that made it. >>

Yeah, and if you carried a slab with an RFID chip, if I had a reader powerful enough I could read exactly what you had in your pockets or unprotected cases and detect exactly what you were carrying with you .... maybe a thief would try to detect any RFID signature (without caring what it was) and tazer you and go through your pockets. I guess you could sell them with lead sleeves or something.

You could detect what's in safe deposit boxes that way too I guess...

shirohniichan · February 17, 2006 6:49AM

<< I asked one of my associates who is Chinese as to what it said and she said it reads as "Beijing Old money recognition center"
I don't know if someone started a TPG in China or not, but it would be pretty neat if they did and were really good about it. >>

I'd translated it "Beijing Antique Coin Appraisal Center," but I doubt it's a real TPG. I imagine it is something made up by sellers to make their counterfeits look legit.

These counterfeiters, be they Chinese or American, could already have begun putting good quality fakes in good quality fake TGP slabs.

That's why I only buy raw coins-- so I won't be taken in by fake slabs.

seateddime · February 17, 2006 7:23AM

maybe slab some panda

carl · February 17, 2006 8:18AM

As already mentioned though, if you do buy enough you will get a exquiste ane beautiful Chinese gift.
As to trusting someone to translate be careful. I remember once way back when I was young, I was interested in a Japanese girl. A friend of mine, that was Japanese told me to impress her say the following. He told me some things to say and I did. He had a sense of humor and it almost got me a face slapping.
For all we know that Chinese writing may well say Stupid Americans, they'll buy anything.

Chinese slab. How long before they start faking top tier slabs?

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