I know circ Buffalo Nickel grading has evolved, but is this coin evenly remotely close to Fine??

mercurydimeguy · February 1, 2006 8:17AM

Link

Thoughts?

MikeInFL · February 1, 2006 8:18AM

I've always felt the grading of these coins were too dependant on one feature (horn) for the grade. I agree philosophically with the grade, particularly for the obverse...Mike

OnlyBuffalos · February 1, 2006 9:29AM

This is one of quite a few Buffalo nickels which were typically poorly made. most oten the reverse of the coin. There is no agreed upon way to assign a grade to them. Technically it is not a fine grade Buffalo. Market grade is fine.

When encountering these poorly struck coins, it is best to ignore the grade and bid/pay what you think the coin is worth. You may have to wait a long time to find this date graded fine with a reverse which meets the technical standards for a fine buffalo nickel.

21Walker · February 1, 2006 9:37AM

I'm with 'onlybuffalos'.........Technically. not a fine according to the grading guides....BUT, it is a nice example. I wouldn't pay more than F12 for it .........my opinion.....and you know how that goes..........Good Luck..........Rick

mercurydimeguy · February 1, 2006 9:39AM

It's more than just the horn/reverse that aroused my curiousity. The letters 1/2 running in to the rim, rims worn at a 45 degre angle.

At least you can see some horn on the guy below...and the letters are "inside" the coin.

If you didn't know the buffalo is supposed to have a horn, you would never know from the Teletrade example that the buffalo has one. It doesn't have to be there, but the head detail shoul at least elude to it, no?

OnlyBuffalos · February 1, 2006 1:41PM

There are many early to mid 1920s Denver Buffalos which show no or limited horn and head detail that are definitely uncirculated. They just were poorly made. A full horn with head detail on these is quite elusive even in MS65. 1925-D is particularly tough to find fully detailed.

PerryHall · February 1, 2006 4:56PM

<< <i>There are many early to mid 1920s Denver Buffalos which show no or limited horn and head detail that are definitely uncirculated. They just were poorly made. A full horn with head detail on these is quite elusive even in MS65. 1925-D is particularly tough to find fully detailed. >>

In fact, if you find one of these with a sharp full horn you should be suspicious of an added mint mark. There are some good fakes where the mint mark is embosed using a tool in a hole drilled through the edge which pushes the mint mark up through the surface. The mint mark looks convincing since there is no seam around the mint mark.

intocoins · February 1, 2006 5:34PM

I like the NGC example and would buy that coin at Fine easily if i needed it . To me a Fine Buffalo has to have at least half the horn and i dont care about if it is a weak strike or market grade or whatever. The PCGS coin probably got the Fine cause the Obverse Rim looks intact, but i would pass it up and look for a better example.

MJH · February 1, 2006 11:40PM

The Obverse on this looks Fine 12 to me,
But the reverse looks maybe Good 6.
I would give it a VG 8.

EagleEye · February 2, 2006 2:23AM

The 1921 and 1921-S are made from a distinctive redesigned hub which shows much more hair detail on the Indian than other years. I don't know why they abandoned it the next year, perhaps short die life. Many people mistake the extra detail on the braid for a good strike.

I think that grading by strike (full horn) carries with it many problems. Buffalo Nickel grading would be so much better if we graded by wear (which this would be OK as a fine, probably) But for a VF to strictly have a Full Horn is very difficult to match with reality.

Perhaps grading would be better if we grade by actual wear and assign FH for Full Horn. A 1921-S in VF non FH would be much less than a FH VF.

BigD5 · February 2, 2006 2:39AM

Grade the coin.

You get in trouble flipping the nickel over and grading by the horn only. That's a ludicrous way to grade if you really think about it.

The obverse looks to be of fine+ or even vf sharpness (read EagleEyes comments above) with a softly struck reverse. It depends on how the buyer values the coin, overall, at that point.

OnlyBuffalos · February 2, 2006 3:19AM

It would be interesting to have a grading "contest" on the notoriously poorly struck Buffalo dates. The inconsistency on the circulated slab grades is quite high so I don't know how a representative selection for the contest could be chosen without a great deal of argument.

I know circ Buffalo Nickel grading has evolved, but is this coin evenly remotely close to Fine??

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