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Oriental Whatzit? (Not a coin, but perhaps somebody who knows their Asian squigglies can help?)
lordmarcovan
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Something I dug while out detecting, years ago. Found it in a drawer last night and thought I'd scan it.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
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DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
In the meantime, the character at the upper right is the character for "man" or "person", which doesn't help much, I admit.
<< <i>In the meantime, the character at the upper right is the character for "man" or "person" >>
It's easy to see why.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Everything is written in mirror image, so the piece must have been used to stamp things.
Obscurum per obscurius
I wonder what it was doing in an old church yard?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Can I be the first to guess that it is some sort of ninja throwing weapon?
The characters are not backwards. (That's what I get for trying to answer a post while on the phone).
It appears to read "Tai Ming Sen [something] An [something]."
Tai Ming refers to an era, "sen" literally means "proclamation", and "an" means peace. I wish I could figure out the other characters, because without them this doesn't make enough sense to figure out the meaning.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>Can I be the first to guess that it is some sort of ninja throwing weapon? >>
Only if there were pacifist Quaker Ninjas in the mountains of North Carolina. The edge is smooth, and it's perfectly round. I suppose you could give somebody a knot on the head if you threw it at 'em hard enough, but in searching for a throwing weapon, I think I'd go with a plain old rock before I used this.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Shiro is right that the first to characters in the right column read Da Ming (Great Ming). The next two characters in the central column are the reign period Xuande (1426-1435). I think the two characters in the final column on the left are "manufactured." I guessing that from context and that the last character looks a little like "manufacture." I don't know the character in the upper left hand corner. I will think about it for a bit over lunch and get back to you.
Shiro, I would say that the upper left hand character is "an" too but I am troubled by the extra horizontal stroke at the top. I looked up graphic variants for "an" and did indeed find something with a stroke across the top but it did not have the roof radical in there like this one does. It probably is "an" but I am trying to make this mean "manufactured, and "an" would not help
<< <i>Could this be a bronze mirror? Lord M, are there any Asian antique dealers in your area? This may be something worth looking into. >>
I thought it might be a bronze mirror, too. The Japanese bronze mirrors I have seen have been fairly thick and were at least 6 inches across. Maybe it's a portable mirror.
Obscurum per obscurius
It's a long shot...
Ed to add: perhaps it was inked and then a document pressed directly to it? That would account for the flat surface around the characters...
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
Cooking? I don't think so, nor do I see how it could be useful in that manner. Trust me- there was never a restaurant on the site, unless the Indians had a venison burger joint there. It had been a church since 1794, and is surrounded by an old churchyard (graveyard). Some folks might have had church picnics in the churchyard, but Chinese folks? I doubt it.
A stamp or seal of some sort? I could buy that theory.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>I love all the different theories. I never thought about a mirror- I don't see how it could have been? Were there all-metal bronze mirrors that they polished up? >>
On the Myth Busters show they made and used a group of bronze mirrors (polished bronze sheets) to try to start a fire.
I never considered it to be a mirror. The mirror idea would make sense, but as I recall, the back side is kinda rough for that- plain, but a little rough- not polished.
I frankly do not believe it is from the 1400s or 1500s, or whatever, no matter what the characters might suggest. More likely it is a late-1800s or early-1900s replica of a Ming Dynasty doodad (mirror?). It IS old; there's little doubt of that. But I still cannot imagine it being older than the 19th century or newer than the 1920's. Though it is probably cast, it has that perfectly-round "machine made" look.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Bronze mirrors were indeed polished. They never had glass attached to them. That's the way Chinese (and subsequently Japanese) craftsmen made mirrors since ancient times. The mirrors I've seen in museums were about 12" in diameter. They had handles on the them that made them look like frying pans. They were put into wooden stands to hold them in place.
Obscurum per obscurius
But what could it be? It's not often one comes across bronze disks of this size with a Ming stamp.
I don't think it is a chop, given that the characters are not backwwards.
Obscurum per obscurius
Here is an old bronze mirror (I think egyptian). Possibly your piece was a small hand mirror (of course it would need re-polishing) with some sort of ID on the back?
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
<< <i>Date references on porcelain are usually on the bottom of pieces, so I imagine this bronze piece is also the bottom or back of something. Maybe the rest of the piece was made of wood or paper and rotted away. The lack of a handle of any kind suggests it is not the lid to anything >>
This makes sense to me. I would say the back of something rather than the bottom, though- that seal on the bottom wouldn't allow the object to sit flat. The back of something... maybe.
The mirror theory still might be valid. I will have to re-examine the plain side of it again.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Adolf Hitler
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Sumnom, are you a prophet?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I figured it for something from the late 19th or early 20th century, at first. Whether it is fake or genuine, it is still a tantalizing mystery as to how it got into that churchyard in a tiny NC town. Even when I lived in Swannanoa in the early 1990s, it was the sort of place where the post office closed at noon because the guy had his lunch break. Swannanoa was pretty much centered around the Beacon Manufacturing plant, where I worked when I found that artifact. Beacon has long since shut down the plant, which later burned to the ground, making Swannanoa even more of a sleepy backwater.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I still think this is the date of manufacture. But hey, that's just me.
As for the Zheng He in America idea, this find, as cool as it is, does not constitute evidence. There is no way to know how it got there. It could have been buried a hundred years ago. It could also be a fake Ming thingy.
Even so, it's cool that we could witness the transformation of the thingy into an international object of inquiry!
Good thread-was the thingy ever identified to everyones satisfaction?
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
Nonetheless, this is still a fascinating tale.