Most sought error type?

Whitby · January 17, 2006 11:39PM

All-

I lucked out a few years ago and got a few errors in my pocket change. Specifically a penny off center strike and a blank.

Is there a "most sought" or more "desireable" error type within the realm of collecting.

I recall an error book that was published in the 70's (YES I AM THAT OLD) and like the genius I am I did not keep it.

jdsinva · January 17, 2006 11:44PM

Probably the doubled die. . .

OKbustchaser · January 17, 2006 11:57PM

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety.

PerryHall · January 18, 2006 12:01AM

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

Actually, its both unless the mint purposely made the die with doubling.

OKbustchaser · January 18, 2006 1:36AM

<< 

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

Actually, its both unless the mint purposely made the die with doubling. >>

The die itself IS a mint error...if you can talk the mint out of the cancelled die then and only then would you have an example of a doubled die mint error, though.

The coin, however, is merely an example of a die variety...EVERY coin minted from this set of dies will exhibit the same doubling. An error coin is unique to the individual coin.

FullStepJeffs · January 18, 2006 2:03AM

Whitby,

IMHO, for error coins you speak of, depending on your budget, probably the most expensive errors are off metals, double denominations or even mules...

Off center cents and penny blanks aren't that expensive.

In regards to the double dies previously spoke of, for modern coinage, unless their talking about the 1955 cent, most of the rest are easily beatable by the previously mentioned coins.

Your best bet is to talk to the big boys on the block around here: Fred Weinberg is a member here and his site might help you out. Also, I think Mike Byers is on this forum. His site might help you too.

Hope this helps!

Steve

PerryHall · January 18, 2006 2:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

Actually, its both unless the mint purposely made the die with doubling. >>

The die itself IS a mint error...if you can talk the mint out of the cancelled die then and only then would you have an example of a doubled die mint error, though.

The coin, however, is merely an example of a die variety...EVERY coin minted from this set of dies will exhibit the same doubling. An error coin is unique to the individual coin. >>

Is a coin showing a major die break considered an error coin? YES! Every coin struck after the die break ocurred will show this error until the die is eventually removed from service or falls apart. The Red Book has a chapter on mint errors and they place this under "Defective Dies" which includes die breaks. Since this error originated from a defective die, coins struct from this die can also be considered a variety. Heavily clashed dies also fall into this category. Once again, coins struck from these dies are errors since they differ from the product the mint intended to produce. They can also be considered minting varieties.

koynekwest · January 18, 2006 6:35AM

I agree with OKbustchaser-it's the die that's the error. Every coin-from the first to the last-from this die will be identical as far as the "error" is concerned.

jdsinva · January 18, 2006 9:43AM

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

According to page 66 of my Margolis book, he states a double die is an error and a variety. Should I throw out my Margolis book?

fivecents · January 18, 2006 9:58AM

Any "Mule" that is a US coin.

OKbustchaser · January 18, 2006 11:42AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

Actually, its both unless the mint purposely made the die with doubling. >>

The die itself IS a mint error...if you can talk the mint out of the cancelled die then and only then would you have an example of a doubled die mint error, though.

The coin, however, is merely an example of a die variety...EVERY coin minted from this set of dies will exhibit the same doubling. An error coin is unique to the individual coin. >>

Is a coin showing a major die break considered an error coin? YES! Every coin struck after the die break ocurred will show this error until the die is eventually removed from service or falls apart. The Red Book has a chapter on mint errors and they place this under "Defective Dies" which includes die breaks. Since this error originated from a defective die, coins struct from this die can also be considered a variety. Heavily clashed dies also fall into this category. Once again, coins struck from these dies are errors since they differ from the product the mint intended to produce. They can also be considered minting varieties. >>

You are part right. However, the "error" you are refering to does not result from the damaged die. The only error in this scenario is the damaged die. As you say defective dies result in coins which can be considered varieties...but they do not in and of themselves result in error coins. Once again, defective dies are DIE errors not coin errors.

777 · January 18, 2006 11:56AM

<<<<Most sought error type>>>> Any denomination struck on a different planchet is highly sought after, and quite expensive when you do locate one

Craton · January 18, 2006 12:00PM

<< 

<< 

<< Probably the doubled die. . . >>

A doubled die is not an error...it is a variety. >>

Actually, its both unless the mint purposely made the die with doubling. >>

Wrong.

coppercoins · January 18, 2006 12:17PM

OKbustchaser - I've tried your arguement before and can't win here. There are some who cannot distinguish the difference and will call them what they may. I, however, am with you in your explanation. I do not collect errors, nor do I care about them. I am a die variety specialist. And yes, there is a BIG difference.

PerryHall · January 18, 2006 5:29PM

The Red Book states that coins struck from defective dies are errors. I agree with the Red Book. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

coppercoins · January 18, 2006 11:24PM

The Red Book also showed an image of a 1997 doubled ear and called it the 1984 doubled ear for six years. They also printed "double die" and "doubled die" as well as "variety" or "error" completely interchangeably on the same page, as if there weren't a problem with it. They all make mistakes and have misgivings. Taking what one coin book says as "the word" against what hundreds of specialists and experts say is rather silly, in my opinion. There is a clear difference, and anyone who rejects that fact is refusing education.

Die varieties are not errors and errors are not die varieties. There are people who CAN understand the difference and don't like the two mixed because they are very different things, and often the collector of one has no care whatsoever of the other. If you only knew the number of people who come to me for advice on ERRORS only to be turned away because I simply refuse to study them, you might understand and get some education in that regard. I end up repeating myself hundreds of times every year because generalist catalogs such as the Red Book can't get their crap straight, and newbie collectors learn their mistakes and consider them to be "the word" of expertise. They couldn't be farther from the truth in this regard. The Red Book is a good generalist guide, but when it comes to specialties I would much rather turn to an expert in the specialty. If there was something wrong with my Mercedes, I'd rather have a European car specialist look at it than a Ford or Chevy mechanic. I go to those who study the subject for advice. It appears that you would rather turn to a very general book that tries to cover anything and everything within a given number of pages for every small detail regarding this industry...more power to you. I couldn't deal with it that way.

seanq · January 18, 2006 11:44PM

Just to try and wrench this thread back to the original question (though I do agree 100% with CD, and encourage him to send me all of his uninteresting errors), the answer to your question depends on the collector.

For a novice or generalist who wants one or two representative "errors" for his collection, I think inexpensive yet eye-catching coins like off-center strikes or expanded broadstrikes are probably the best bet. A monstrosity like this coin would probably appeal more to a specialty collector, since (a) the series of events that led to that coin are much more involved and unusual, and (b) a novice collector would be hard pressed to tell that coin apart from one left on a subway track for the 5:15 to run over.

If you want the ultimate combination of rarity, eye-appeal, and collectability, then I'd probably nominate dual-denomination off-metals - coins like cents struck on a struck dime, or nickels on a struck cent. Second place would be off-center strikes on obsolete series like Shield Nickels, Seated Dimes or Franklin halves.

Sean Reynolds

dlimb2 · January 19, 2006 12:11AM

Variety: a die which has been altered by the mint intentionally to produce a change in the die which will produce a second die used to produce a coin which is in production...giving it a different appearance in some way from the first inital die...causing a variety.

Error: A coin that is produced by mistake...unknowingly to the mint...doubled dies, double strikes, grease filled dies and so on.

seanq · January 19, 2006 12:24AM

<< Variety: a die which has been altered by the mint intentionally to produce a change in the die which will produce a second die used to produce a coin which is in production...giving it a different appearance in some way from the first inital die...causing a variety.

Error: A coin that is produced by mistake...unknowingly to the mint...doubled dies, double strikes, grease filled dies and so on. >>

I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense. You should at least have an idea of the minting process and how working dies are produced before you start throwing out definitions like this.

Sean Reynolds

OKbustchaser · January 19, 2006 12:28AM

<< Variety: a die which has been altered by the mint intentionally to produce a change in the die which will produce a second die used to produce a coin which is in production...giving it a different appearance in some way from the first inital die...causing a variety.

Error: A coin that is produced by mistake...unknowingly to the mint...doubled dies, double strikes, grease filled dies and so on. >>

I surrender.

Byers · January 19, 2006 12:46AM

The five major types of error coins are: double struck, die caps, off metals, brockages and off centers. These are striking errors. There are also die errors and planchet errors but these are not included in the main categories mentioned above.

PerryHall · January 19, 2006 2:23AM

<< Variety: a die which has been altered by the mint intentionally to produce a change in the die which will produce a second die used to produce a coin which is in production...giving it a different appearance in some way from the first inital die...causing a variety.

Error: A coin that is produced by mistake...unknowingly to the mint...doubled dies, double strikes, grease filled dies and so on. >>

jdsinva · January 19, 2006 2:56AM

Contrary to popular perception, I can understand and appreciate what it is you all are saying and I CAN (really, I CAN) understand the difference between a die variety, a die error and an error. My personal feeling is this is a similar nomenclature issue like using the term penny or cent when referring to the USA one cent coin. Most people know it's a cent but call it a penny anyway. I know a double die is an error on the die and not the coin but it's part of popular hobby vernacular and people know what I am talking about.

My question is, if this distinction is so important to the hobby and there are hundreds of specialists & experts then why aren't they getting out of their towers and pressing the Red Books, Margolis, ANA and others to get it right? You can't blame the ignorant masses if the popular books found in most coin stores have it wrong from the start.

Respectfully,

PerryHall · January 19, 2006 3:05AM

Is a coin showing a major cud (die break) an error or just a variety? I was always told (for more than 40 years) that it was an error and now some of you are telling me its not and that it only a variety. Also, just because you find a few typos in the Red Book doesn't mean everything else in the book is wrong.

gonzer · January 19, 2006 5:31AM

Transitional pieces such as a 1944 Lincoln on a 1943 zinc planchet, 1965 Kennedy on a 90% silver planchet or vice-versa command beaucoup $$$$. 1965 clad coinage mistakenly struck on 90% silver.

brccoins · January 19, 2006 6:00AM

Definitely the 2005 speared bison.

Most sought error type?

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